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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 7:03 am 
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 7:14 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ted-report

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 7:29 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:06 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/12/universal-credit-will-cost-more-than-system-it-replaces-study-shows?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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Universal credit will cost more than system it replaces, study shows
no surprise there
an irrational, ideological action


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:07 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:26 am 
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What tells you most about a society is how it treats its poor and vulnerable, the UN special rapporteur on poverty and human rights, Philip Alston, told a packed public meeting held in the UK’s poorest neighbourhood on Sunday...in Jaywick, a tiny village by the sea in the south-east corner of Essex.

He said a wealthy country could decide to help all those who hit hard times, ensure that they don’t slip through the net and are able to live a life of dignity:
It’s a political choice.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... in-jaywick
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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:04 am 
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Sky posted this last night.
Quote:
None of us have the faintest fucking idea what Labour's Brexit policy really is because neither do they.

IMO Labour's problem is that, in practice, they can't ban everyone except Starmer from talking about it. I think his position is reasonably coherent but it's nuanced and hard to follow if you don't understand Brexit as well as he does. Who does?
I'm not criticising Labour MPs particularly, their understanding of it is better than your average tory MP who hasn't a clue but is allowed to get away with one of a range of ridiculously simplified positions by the MSM.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:19 am 
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Morning all.

All still going swimmingly I see...

Quote:
Jennifer Rankin
‏@JenniferMerode
2h2 hours ago
More
Brexit fatigue setting in in Brussels. One source says they have stopped reading British papers(!), because tired of 'cabinet deal imminent'/'cabinet deadlocked' story loop.


Meanwhile the Daily Borisgraph seems to be getting its moneysworth with its chief investigative reporter...

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:49 am 
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To all the Extremely Sensible People indulging in utterly bizarre Corbyn Coat Trutherism - we see you.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:51 am 
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Good morfternoon.

Mark Francois (spouting off currently on TV). His main plank (apart from himself, of course) seems to be that, even if World Trade Organisation terms were to end up placing us in a worse position, at least we would have been free to try! (I paraphrase, but only to make him sound more coherent than he is).


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 12:24 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Good morfternoon.

Mark Francois (spouting off currently on TV). His main plank (apart from himself, of course) seems to be that, even if World Trade Organisation terms were to end up placing us in a worse position, at least we would have been free to try! (I paraphrase, but only to make him sound more coherent than he is).


Heh, will try and remember that line :)


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 1:27 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Sky posted this last night.
Quote:
None of us have the faintest fucking idea what Labour's Brexit policy really is because neither do they.

IMO Labour's problem is that, in practice, they can't ban everyone except Starmer from talking about it. I think his position is reasonably coherent but it's nuanced and hard to follow if you don't understand Brexit as well as he does. Who does?
I'm not criticising Labour MPs particularly, their understanding of it is better than your average tory MP who hasn't a clue but is allowed to get away with one of a range of ridiculously simplified positions by the MSM.

I think Corbyn's problem is that he just isn't good at seeing how his words will be turned against him. It's a shame that this should be a problem of course.

I'd be really interested to hear the Der Spiegel interview and the emphasis placed on "we".

We CAN'T STOP Brexit = nobody can
WE can't stop Brexit = Labour can't

But I guess we'll never know what he actually meant because it is only in print I think.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 1:38 pm 
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I initially interpreted "we" as meaning Labour.

But whilst I don't subscribe to the "evil genius" line now so beloved of certain centrists (see my above post for a glaring example) it is quite possible he was deliberately ambiguous here?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 2:04 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I think Corbyn's problem is that he just isn't good at seeing how his words will be turned against him. It's a shame that this should be a problem of course.


Indeed.

Also, I think he believes Labour can still make the country work better 'for the many' even after Brexit and therefore doesn't care as much as those who think it'll be a catastrophe for the northern working classes. He sees it as a done deal they have to make the best of.
I'm not 100% certain he's wrong but I'd rather not find out.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Arizona - I think the dem is leading by about 32,000 votes and there are only about 5,000 left to count (and most of them in a county she's significantly winning at the moment). Very roughly a 1.5 percentage point lead which I think is beyond 'mandatory recount' territory.

Florida - 538 say that there is an issue with one heavily dem-leaning county undereporting the senate vote. The NYT results page doesn't show that - it seems the results are quite close in percentage terms - 0.2 percentage point lead - but that means about 12,500 votes which is a lot to find in a recount, even amongst 8million+ votes.

That (also assuming a rep win in Mississippi - sing it) would leave things 53-47 (inc. the two Indies who caucus with the Democrats) which is a small but significant gain for the republicans - even if the most feasible awkward squad voted against the line (Romney, Collins, Murkowski) the Republican's would still win with Pence's casting vote as 'President' of the Senate

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 2:53 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I think Corbyn's problem is that he just isn't good at seeing how his words will be turned against him. It's a shame that this should be a problem of course.


Indeed.

Also, I think he believes Labour can still make the country work better 'for the many' even after Brexit and therefore doesn't care as much as those who think it'll be a catastrophe for the northern working classes. He sees it as a done deal they have to make the best of.
I'm not 100% certain he's wrong but I'd rather not find out.


That there is still even slight doubt that it is a "done deal" is remarkable really. Had the government come up with even a vaguely decent Brexit plan after the referendum, it is likely most would have got behind it (even if reluctantly in many cases) It is their obsession with appeasing the unappeaseable that has let to the present state of things.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 2:54 pm 
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I don't think I can cope with "Brexit" any more.

Theresa May seems to have taken several jigsaw puzzles, thrown half of the contents of each of their respective boxes away, put all the remaining pieces into one empty box (minus its lid - which had shown a picture of the Conservative Party logo - although even having the picture wouldn't be of much help by this stage), allowed the DUP to pour boiling water into the contents of the box and stir it well, and still expects someone to be able to put the pieces together to achieve a neat fit and a pretty picture. Oh - and she's packaged it up as a gift for us all.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 2:57 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I don't think I can cope with "Brexit" any more.

Theresa May seems to have taken several jigsaw puzzles, thrown half of the contents of each of their respective boxes away, put all the remaining pieces into one empty box (minus its lid - which had shown a picture of the Conservative Party logo - although even having the picture wouldn't be of much help by this stage), allowed the DUP to pour boiling water into the contents of the box and stir it well, and still expects someone to be able to put the pieces together to achieve a neat fit and a pretty picture. Oh - and she's packaged it up as a gift for us all.


And she remains absolutely convinced that she is holding the final piece and is ready to put it into place.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 3:42 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
I think Corbyn's problem is that he just isn't good at seeing how his words will be turned against him. It's a shame that this should be a problem of course.


Indeed.

Also, I think he believes Labour can still make the country work better 'for the many' even after Brexit and therefore doesn't care as much as those who think it'll be a catastrophe for the northern working classes. He sees it as a done deal they have to make the best of.
I'm not 100% certain he's wrong but I'd rather not find out.


That there is still even slight doubt that it is a "done deal" is remarkable really. Had the government come up with even a vaguely decent Brexit plan after the referendum, it is likely most would have got behind it (even if reluctantly in many cases) It is their obsession with appeasing the unappeaseable that has let to the present state of things.

Is it "appeasing the unappeasable" that made it so appealing to Frank Field?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Any shred of respect I still had for him vanished when he cited anti-Semitism (something he had showed no previous interest in) as a key reason for leaving the Labour party.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 6:17 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I don't think I can cope with "Brexit" any more.

Theresa May seems to have taken several jigsaw puzzles, thrown half of the contents of each of their respective boxes away, put all the remaining pieces into one empty box (minus its lid - which had shown a picture of the Conservative Party logo - although even having the picture wouldn't be of much help by this stage), allowed the DUP to pour boiling water into the contents of the box and stir it well, and still expects someone to be able to put the pieces together to achieve a neat fit and a pretty picture. Oh - and she's packaged it up as a gift for us all.

Had you seen this PF?

https://boingboing.net/2018/11/11/this- ... uzzle.html

this-artist-uses-jigsaw-puzzle.html


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 6:22 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
I don't think I can cope with "Brexit" any more.

Theresa May seems to have taken several jigsaw puzzles, thrown half of the contents of each of their respective boxes away, put all the remaining pieces into one empty box (minus its lid - which had shown a picture of the Conservative Party logo - although even having the picture wouldn't be of much help by this stage), allowed the DUP to pour boiling water into the contents of the box and stir it well, and still expects someone to be able to put the pieces together to achieve a neat fit and a pretty picture. Oh - and she's packaged it up as a gift for us all.

Had you seen this PF?

https://boingboing.net/2018/11/11/this- ... uzzle.html

this-artist-uses-jigsaw-puzzle.html


No, I hadn't. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 7:24 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
I don't think I can cope with "Brexit" any more.

Theresa May seems to have taken several jigsaw puzzles, thrown half of the contents of each of their respective boxes away, put all the remaining pieces into one empty box (minus its lid - which had shown a picture of the Conservative Party logo - although even having the picture wouldn't be of much help by this stage), allowed the DUP to pour boiling water into the contents of the box and stir it well, and still expects someone to be able to put the pieces together to achieve a neat fit and a pretty picture. Oh - and she's packaged it up as a gift for us all.

Had you seen this PF?

https://boingboing.net/2018/11/11/this- ... uzzle.html

this-artist-uses-jigsaw-puzzle.html


No, I hadn't. Thanks!

Amazing - I saw the link just after reading your post :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 8:27 pm 
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@PaulfromYorkshire

Must be something in the ether.

I'd been struggling with the jigsaw thought for a couple of days - it was the closest I could get to coming up with something that fit the way I'm seeing the situation at the moment. I'm still struggling with it all! And trying to reason out Jeremy Corbyn's stance on the whole thing. He seems to be stuck in a bit of a timewarp. However, if we're going to face a disaster, I'd feel safer facing it under a Labour government.

By the way, did you see Sky'sGoneOut 's posts last night? I have sympathy with his view.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Dear God. Now what's she wearing round her neck?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:13 pm 
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With no one in particular in mind


https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-o ... ssion=true

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:16 pm 
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CRACE https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -of-idiots

" Gordon Brown on Brexit: a grownup among a sea of idiots "


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:40 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
@PaulfromYorkshire

Must be something in the ether.

I'd been struggling with the jigsaw thought for a couple of days - it was the closest I could get to coming up with something that fit the way I'm seeing the situation at the moment. I'm still struggling with it all! And trying to reason out Jeremy Corbyn's stance on the whole thing. He seems to be stuck in a bit of a timewarp. However, if we're going to face a disaster, I'd feel safer facing it under a Labour government.

By the way, did you see Sky'sGoneOut 's posts last night? I have sympathy with his view.

Thanks for the pointer. I also have sympathy.

But I still think that Labour has got it broadly right, if far from perfect. I really worry about the idea that everyone has changed their mind now. I'm not certain a second referendum would produce the "right" result.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:47 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Gin is fashionable again. They're the only new businesses I've seen open recently.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 9:58 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
@PaulfromYorkshire

Must be something in the ether.

I'd been struggling with the jigsaw thought for a couple of days - it was the closest I could get to coming up with something that fit the way I'm seeing the situation at the moment. I'm still struggling with it all! And trying to reason out Jeremy Corbyn's stance on the whole thing. He seems to be stuck in a bit of a timewarp. However, if we're going to face a disaster, I'd feel safer facing it under a Labour government.

By the way, did you see Sky'sGoneOut 's posts last night? I have sympathy with his view.

Thanks for the pointer. I also have sympathy.

But I still think that Labour has got it broadly right, if far from perfect. I really worry about the idea that everyone has changed their mind now. I'm not certain a second referendum would produce the "right" result.


This is really a bit of an unmentionable, isn't it? Many of the #FBPE types not only seem to think "their" side would win, but that they would get a landslide.

I don't see much objective evidence for the latter at least. And would another 52-48 type result - even if it went the "other" way - actually solve anything?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:20 pm 
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I've just been listening to Theresa May's speech.

This one's for you, Theresa . . .



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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Quote:
Penny Mordaunt tells cabinet colleagues she wants to end funding Unesco, the UN cultural and education body

- wants to end £11.1m annual funding at end of next year
Times


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:26 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Quote:
Penny Mordaunt tells cabinet colleagues she wants to end funding Unesco, the UN cultural and education body

- wants to end £11.1m annual funding at end of next year
Times


She's my MP. I am truly blessed.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:36 pm 
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@citizenJA

Night night.


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:38 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Quote:
Penny Mordaunt tells cabinet colleagues she wants to end funding Unesco, the UN cultural and education body

- wants to end £11.1m annual funding at end of next year
Times


She's my MP. I am truly blessed.

Puny adornment turns into UNESCO hating Portsmouth MP (5,8)


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Very good - quick, too!


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 11:03 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Puny adornment turns into UNESCO hating Portsmouth MP (5,8)


Have you seen the puny adornment that Theresa May's sporting at the Lord Mayor's bash?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Quote:
California wildfires: Why Trump's claim 'forest management' is to blame is completely wrong - and why he'll keep saying it (Independent)


https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/california-wildfires-trump-tweet-malibu-camp-fire-woolsey-hill-ventura-county-a8629801.html


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Nov, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov, 2018 12:14 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
California wildfires: Why Trump's claim 'forest management' is to blame is completely wrong - and why he'll keep saying it (Independent)


https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/california-wildfires-trump-tweet-malibu-camp-fire-woolsey-hill-ventura-county-a8629801.html


He got a slap down from Axl Rose.

https://twitter.com/axlrose/status/1061437858878230528

Yes, that Axl Rose...

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Nov, 2018 12:19 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... verse-dies

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