Thursday 15th November 2018

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:09 am

A Tory complaining we wouldn't be able to leave the CU backstop without the EU's agreement, "sovereignty" blah, blah.

I assume he'll be raising the same objection when the government want to sign a secretly negotiated legally binding trade deal with the USA, then.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:19 am

good-morning, everyone

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:29 am

BREAKING Eurosceptic Tory leader Jacob Rees-Mogg to submit letter of no confidence in Theresa May as Conservative leader later today, sources confirm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:33 am

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=cdso20&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:39 am

Robert Harris
‏

@Robert___Harris
2h2 hours ago
More
No group of politicians has done more damage to this country than the 50 or so hardline Tory Brexiteers. They have infected the UK with their poison, concealed their real aims, evaded all responsibility, & now knife their own leader for failing to deliver their fantasy

Yep. And include Farage and his UKIP in there too.

And even worse, they had not a single clue as to how a position outside the EU would actually work in practice - the "We'll be fine on our own" should have been shouted down years ago as simplistic hogwash.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:52 am

adam wrote:May tells Scotland they are not special in any way and just have to put up with what England gives them. Not sure this is an entirely sensible way forwards.

3BjVCkeG_400x400.jpeg

I found it odd that she (May) justified the treatment of Scotland by saying that they are part of the UK. Rather like NI, then . . .

Edited to add -

I've PTOd!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 11:58 am

Weirdly, Raab's supporters are claiming that he didn't negotiate what's been published and that therefore this mess isn't his fault.

In which case he should have resigned earlier on the grounds that he wasn't allowed to do the job he was paid to do!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:20 pm

Julian Lewis, the Tory Brexiter, says he is worried about a “Hotel California” Brexit where the UK can never leave.

The UK can go, Lewis, leaving the EU has consequences
Willfully ignorant and irrational contribution from a Tory MP currently governing the UK

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:22 pm

Theresa May resigns from herself.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:22 pm

Rumours that Michael Gove has been offered Dominic Raab's (latest) former "job". Would he demand that Oliver Robbins be sidelined?

Edited to add - or is he (OR) too handy as a fall-guy?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:23 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Weirdly, Raab's supporters are claiming that he didn't negotiate what's been published and that therefore this mess isn't his fault.

In which case he should have resigned earlier on the grounds that he wasn't allowed to do the job he was paid to do!

Exactly! It's part of a breakdown of logic, rationality, responsibility

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:24 pm

Toryexit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:25 pm

HindleA wrote:Theresa May resigns from herself.

You're the voice of perfect reason and clarity

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:26 pm

Yes, really

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:28 pm

HindleA wrote:Toryexit.

From your mouth to god's ear

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:28 pm

Remember, everybody - the alternative to all this was CHAOS WITH ED MILIBAND!!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:29 pm

Ouch.

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Steve Peers
‏
Verified account

@StevePeers
Follow Follow @StevePeers
More Steve Peers Retweeted Suella Braverman MP
I had the misfortune to work with you on a proposal for unilateral guarantees for @The3Million - which you pretended to support but then voted against. You are utterly unprincipled: a personification of why so many people are disgusted with politicians.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:40 pm

When you're ready for a government that won't hurt you, the UK and everyone else, vote Labour

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:40 pm

https://socialcarefuture.blog/2018/06/2 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:42 pm

The bookies are circling:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Next Tory leader odds: Who will replace Theresa May as Prime Minister?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 12:58 pm

Laura Kuenssberg
‏
Verified account

@bbclaurak
7m7 minutes ago
More
Boris Johnson has just arrived at ERG meeting - feels very much like this is on and letters from Brexiteers about to go in en masse

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 1:35 pm

Crapita

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-patients" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 1:36 pm

So will Give resign now too I wonder?

According to the Evening Standard, edited by the former Tory chancellor George Osborne, Michael Gove has turned down an offer to replace Dominic Raab as Brexit secretary.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 1:43 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:So will Give resign now too I wonder?

According to the Evening Standard, edited by the former Tory chancellor George Osborne, Michael Gove has turned down an offer to replace Dominic Raab as Brexit secretary.

He will if he has any integrity....

In fact, you have to wonder if that was the point of offering it to him.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 1:48 pm

@NickyMorgan01
10 minutes ago
Pragmatic Conservative leader trying to govern in the national interest gets knifed by Tory Brexiteers - so familiar - exactly when does this end & we actually get on with governing for the whole country

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:01 pm

So much going on today it's impossible to keep up!

Have we had this yet?

https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/ ... 2145997824

I’m producing a number to try to illustrate what I believe…

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:02 pm

I was literally going to post that this minute but thought I'd press Refresh first - amazing.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:07 pm

This is great - a sign language interpreter on the BBC news feed this morning - a must watch

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gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:17 pm

GetYou wrote:So much going on today it's impossible to keep up!

Have we had this yet?

https://twitter.com/labourwhips/status/ ... 2145997824

I’m producing a number to try to illustrate what I believe…

Why was I not surprised when I found out who that was? Seriously overrated imo.

As for Trevelyan, she was approx shoulder to shoulder with Dorries when they were handing the brains out.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:35 pm

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norman smith
‏
@BBCNormanS 18 minil y a 18 minutes

minister tells me if Brexiteers vote down Deal -he and others will openly campaign for a second referendum and to stay in EU.

Enemees of the Peepul !

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 2:41 pm

Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:So will Give resign now too I wonder?

According to the Evening Standard, edited by the former Tory chancellor George Osborne, Michael Gove has turned down an offer to replace Dominic Raab as Brexit secretary.
He will if he has any integrity....

In fact, you have to wonder if that was the point of offering it to him.

If true, May arguably only has herself to blame by turning the post into an effective sinecure. Raab was a halfwit who has written a (godawful) book.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 4:32 pm

Hey, this isn't on - just got back from a swim and no-ne else has resigned! Poor show...

Like this though.

David Allen Green
‏

@davidallengreen
3h3 hours ago
More David Allen Green Retweeted Alberto Nardelli
Michael Gove "turns down offer to be Spinal Tap drummer".

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 4:42 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Hey, this isn't on - just got back from a swim and no-ne else has resigned! Poor show... Like this though.
David Allen Green
@davidallengreen
3h3 hours ago
More David Allen Green Retweeted Alberto Nardelli
Michael Gove "turns down offer to be Spinal Tap drummer".

I thought I was the only one mad enough to swim today

Coming out I saw a blooody great jellyfish !.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 4:46 pm

Fortunately they don't have those at my local indoor pool...might make swimming more of a challenge though.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 4:51 pm

Normally stopped by now, but it was high tide and sunny .

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 4:54 pm

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" If I’m honest, I’m reluctant to give May credit, but if she has constructed this unworkable deal, knowing it would crash and burn, but ultimately lead to a 2nd referendum, then she is after all, a strong and stable genius. "

Nothing is impossible with politicians, see the Great Betrayer Charles de Gaulle, but I doubted if TMay had it in her ...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 5:56 pm

I've just watched Theresa May giving her latest press conference. For what it's worth, it's the best performance, in terms of being non-robotic and, dare I say it, relaxed and human that I've ever seen her give.

Edited to add - I can't abide Geoffrey Boycott

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 6:02 pm

Great use of "let me be very clear" from Starmer.

And he is indeed clear.

Labour won't vote for the deal.

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Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 6:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've just watched Theresa May giving her latest press conference. For what it's worth, it's the best performance, in terms of being non-robotic and, dare I say it, relaxed and human that I've ever seen her give.

Edited to add - I can't abide Geoffrey Boycott

She's probably just really relieved that she won't now be immortalised as THE PRIME MINISTER WHO FAILED TO GET A DEAL.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 7:09 pm

Made me chuckle

angela smith
‏@angelasmithmp

Vital that Theresa May’s Brexit should be stooped.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 7:11 pm

The Government's Brexit Crisis
Inbox
x
Jeremy Corbyn theteam@labour.org.uk via bounce.bluestatedigital.com

18:08 (59 minutes ago)

to me

Dear [citizenJA],

The government is falling apart before our eyes. Their half-baked deal has unravelled, the Prime Minister has lost all authority and is clearly incapable of delivering a Brexit deal that commands even the support of her Cabinet - let alone Parliament and the people of our country.

Our Party Conference agreed that this deal would be judged against our six tests, and if it failed to meet them we would vote against it.

After two years of bungled negotiations, the government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister's own red lines, does not meet our six tests and will leave the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say.

As I said in Parliament earlier today, people around the country will be feeling anxious about the industries they work in, the jobs they hold and the stability of this country.

We do not accept that the choice is between the government's deal and 'no deal'. We will work across Parliament to stop a 'no deal' outcome. Labour has set out our alternative plan for a sensible Brexit that would work for all of our nations and regions, bring Parliament and the country together, support jobs and our economy and guarantee rights, standards and protections.

If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs.

If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.

We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few.

Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party

Post by **refitman** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 7:11 pm

Thread:

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 8:21 pm

citizenJA wrote:"---
If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs.

If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote."

Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party

(cJA edit & emphasis)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 8:26 pm

I've not come across Corbyn's call for either a GE and/or all options remaining & another referendum in the news
Was it mentioned anywhere other than the Labour party website and members' e-mail updates?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 9:16 pm

So, has Michael Gove found any integrity yet or is he waiting for the 10 'o' clock news?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 9:59 pm

BOING !

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 10:12 pm

I phoned my Dad earlier to sort some Christmas plans out and asked him if he knew his MP Anne Marie Trevelyan had resigned in protest at the withdrawal agreement. He got quite excited for a minute until I explained she hadn't actually resigned as an MP, just from a job nobody knew she had. Anyway he had no idea. Which I found quite surprising as I'd heard her on the radio and she sounded as if the entire country was aware of her heroic act, and that she spoke for every single one of us. Not only this but by not being a parliamentary private secretary nobody had ever heard of anymore she claimed she was free to wield her obviously considerable power in steering the country into a no deal Brexit. Which is what, she claimed, everybody wants.

A number of adjectives sprang to mind while listening to this, a selection of which would be unhinged, delusional, conceited, absurd and insufferable.

Mostly however I just laughed.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 10:21 pm

It did make it into the politics live blog above the line elsewhere

Here’s the full text of Corbyn’s email to Labour members

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 5fcd49b7f4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 10:27 pm

"The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has written to party members this evening, talking up the possibility of a general election if Theresa May cannot get her deal through parliament – “as seems likely”. And one line stands out in particular:

If we cannot get a general election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.

So, Corbyn is being explicit with members: He will back another referendum if he cannot force a general election.

Now, that was clearly the case at conference this autumn – as Corbyn rightly points out in his email. But there were some concerns among remain-supporting Labour members about whether or not he really did back that after he told Der Speigel at the weekend that “we can’t stop” Brexit."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 700a72db63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the historical record and documented evidence versus a weekend interview interpretation

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Nov, 2018 10:29 pm

citizenJA wrote:
"The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has written to party members this evening, talking up the possibility of a general election if Theresa May cannot get her deal through parliament – “as seems likely”. And one line stands out in particular:

If we cannot get a general election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.

So, Corbyn is being explicit with members: He will back another referendum if he cannot force a general election.

Now, that was clearly the case at conference this autumn – as Corbyn rightly points out in his email. But there were some concerns among remain-supporting Labour members about whether or not he really did back that after he told Der Speigel at the weekend that “we can’t stop” Brexit."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 700a72db63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the historical record and documented evidence versus a weekend interview interpretation

As I said the other day, without hearing him say it, we don't know whether he meant we Labour can't stop it, or we everyone.