Thursday 15th November 2018

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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 15th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

yep

goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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adam
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Re: Thursday 15th November 2018

Post by adam »

The IPPR's take on the withdrawal agreement and political declaration on future relationship is here. They say that it creates very strict provisions about state aid, but very weak provisions for maintaining environmental and employment regulation, that it fails to protect the integrity of the UK and that it is leading towards a Canada style free trade agreement that will see a much much less frictionless trade relationship in the future.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 15th November 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Question Time report.

Milford Haven so quite a Brexity audience, my favourite gammon faced old fool of the evening claimed we'd survived the Germans trying to starve us during two world wars so surely we could survive Brexit. If we have another referendum perhaps somebody should put that on the side of a bus; "Brexit, not quite as bad as a world war".

So on the panel tonight for Labour we had Barry Gardiner. Here's my impression of Mr Gardiner.

Me: "Barry would you like a cheese sandwich?"

Barry: "Well let me say first of all that bread is made from various ingredients, you have flour and...it can be different types of flour of course...then you have yeast and..."

Me: "I'm just asking if you want a sandwich Barry, a simple yes or no will do."

Barry: "Ah but you see I have to define exactly what a sandwich is before I can answer that. So as I was saying before you interrupted me you have yeast...but of course not all bread has yeast, some of it is unleavened..."

Me: "Oh for fuck's sake".

That's exactly what he's like, it's so excruciating even Dimbleby was getting frustrated and taking the piss. Why Labour let him out in public is beyond me.

For the Tories we had Claire Perry trying to make the case for May's withdrawal agreement. She accused Dimbleby of not letting her speak because she was a woman despite the fact she'd been blathering on endlessly, angrily shouted that Corbyn was an anti-semite and kept going on about how the agreement wasn't a letter to Santa. So quite a bizarre performance really that I can't imagine did much to persuade anyone of the merits of May's deal.

It being Wales we had Liz Saville Roberts for Plaid Cymru who told her Southern brexiter brethren (Wales was essentially split between North and South) a few home truths about the disastrous effects a no deal Brexit would have on the Welsh economy, especially their farmers, and called for a People's vote.

Mark Serwotka made an appearance essentially parroting the Corbyn line about the need for a general election.

And from the Telegraph we had Tim Stanley making the case for Brexit. Tim's one of those nutters who has gone from supporting the Labour party and indeed standing for them, to going full Melanie Phillips and switching to the Conservatives and US Republicans. He strikes me as someone who very much likes the sound of his own voice and the smell of his own farts. He tried to say that if a Brexiter had been in charge of the negotiations everything would have been fine. Which flies in the face of every single tiny little piece of evidence we have. But hey, Tim get's paid to say that sort of shit so he'll be fine.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 15th November 2018

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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 15th November 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

It has just occured to me that perhaps Labour sending Barry Gardiner onto Question Time was a brilliant tactical move knowing that due to his endless excruciating rambling and waffling he'd never get to the point of explaining what Labour's position actually is.

If so it was a total success.

There is going to have to come a time though, in the very immediate future, when Corbyn is going to have to do what May has just done and confront the divisions in his own party along with facing up to the fact that the majority of his own supporters and Labour voters do not want to leave the European Union. He can't just keep throwing Barry Gardiner at the public and hoping for the best. Psychologists will tell you avoidance doesn't work but that's bollocks, it absolutely does...until you can't avoid whatever you're avoiding anymore. And for Labour that's a decision. Whether to go with the wishes of their membership and most of their voters or pander to a minority of their voters and people who would probably never vote for them anyway. And I fear because of their leadership they'll keep trying for both, indulging in as much magical thinking as the Tory brexiters and ultimately helping May get her deal through parliament at a second attempt.

The Tories aren't going to simply 'move aside' as John McDonnell was fantasising on CH4 news.

And they aren't going to vote for a general election even if they change their leader. Why the hell would they?

Labour needs to get behind another referendum and it needs to do it very quickly, or the vast majority of its supporters and voters are going to feel betrayed.
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