Saturday 17th & Sunday 18th November 2018

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 4:24 am

Morning

FWIW unusually for me,apart from a couple of gripes and questioning emphasis in some parts,largely in agreement with the UN bloke.

With the caveat of a dislike of the headline and presentation setting up/affirming narrative/division/obfuscating as to the situation way beyond level of income(in part remedied in actual article)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ions-lives" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poverty and ill health: the ugly bedfellows blighting millions of lives.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 4:28 am

If I had nothing I would still refuse to play the sufficiently pathetic/oppressed game.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 5:21 am

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/w ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 10:47 am

Morning.

All I can say is that US elections are weird. While a Republican congress hopeful headed off to Washington, they kept counting votes back in California and now she's actually behind her democrat rival. Official result not due until 14th Dec so plenty of time to pull back, but it's still pretty weird she's posing for pictures with other new congressmen/women and she may not have even won!

https://amp.slate.com/news-and-politics ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

California’s 39th Congressional District Shows Why You Keep Counting Until You Count All the Votes

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 10:56 am

They have officially won Florida in the Senate though, so that confirms a final score of 53-47 (assuming the GOP win a run-off in Mississippi, which they will)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:11 am

Jamal Khashoggi -

Blimey - first I find myself thinking kindly of President Erdogan, and now I find myself thinking kindly of the CIA.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:37 am

Good morfternoon.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:46 am

PorFavor wrote:Jamal Khashoggi -

Blimey - first I find myself thinking kindly of President Erdogan, and now I find myself thinking kindly of the CIA.

A review of some of their past "exploits" is an effective cure for that, one finds.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 12:17 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... gy#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Consultation outcome

Future of community rail strategy

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 12:54 pm

" Jacob Rees-Mogg had just finished speaking to the Press after publishing his letter of no confidence in the Prime Minister. And as the journalists crowded round, his manservant, the Tory MP Steve Baker, tried to pull his master away.

'Come on Jacob,' he muttered. 'I know you love it.'

Mr Baker probably thought nobody was listening. But Channel 4's Michael Crick heard him. And I am glad he did, because that remark perfectly captures the contemptible irresponsibility that has seized sections of the Conservative Party in the past few days."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... -deal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexiteers, enemies of the People

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:21 pm

Earlier today, I heard John McDonnell being interviewed re "Brexit". Did I detect a hint that he is comng round to the idea of supporting a second referendum? Obviously, he can't be seen to be advocating one - but is he now nearing the point where he is prepared to support one (albeit under the cover of "regretfully")?

Jeremy Corbyn is keeping a low profile.

Edited to remove an extra "is"

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:37 pm

frog222 wrote:the contemptible irresponsibility that has seized sections of the Conservative Party in the past few days."

The past few days???!!!

Still, notable in the DM.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:38 pm

The paranoid fantasy behind Brexit

In the dark imagination of English reactionaries, Britain is always a defeated nation – and the EU is the imaginary invader by Fintan O'Toole

" Peter Shore MP, the most persistent Labour party critic of Europe, during the 1975 referendum took up this theme: “What the advocates of membership are saying … is that we are finished as a country; that the long and famous story of the British nation and people has ended; that we are now so weak and powerless that we must accept terms and conditions, penalties and limitations almost as though we had suffered defeat in a war.” It was a masochistic rhetoric that would return in full force as the Brexit negotiations failed to produce the promised miracles. "

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tan-otoole" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We'll show them, DIG FOR VICTORY !

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:39 pm

My nephew's partner works for the CIA, or 'the agency' as they call it, but only in an administrative capacity we're assured.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:48 pm

That DM piece.

DOMINIC SANDBROOK says even the Iron Lady wouldn't have got a better deal

Taking Thatcher's name in vain there, she'd never have contemplated having to do such a thing.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 1:48 pm

Is anyone else here fed up with almost everything being prefixed by "so-called"? And as for "if you like". . . (I think I covered "literally" in a previous post, so I'll stop now.)

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 2:04 pm

Interesting change of tack from the DM ?

Back to the G and the psychoanalysis of Engerland :

" we are living in a state of collective delusion. Brexit is largely about fantasy: the fantasy that we can walk away and be a sovereign nation. Or the fantasy we could go back to how it was before the referendum. The fantasy that Jeremy Corbyn has an ace up his sleeve and will deliver the Brexit he has also supported, as well as creating socialism on our golden shores. "

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... bbing-away" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 2:08 pm

gilsey wrote:My nephew's partner works for the CIA, or 'the agency' as they call it, but only in an administrative capacity we're assured.

Just remember, Jack Ryan was 'only' and analyst.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 2:18 pm

" The malaise set in before the US presidential election, the paper reported, as Facebook, at the advice of its political advisers, turned down the opportunity to hold then-candidate Donald Trump to account for violating the site’s hate speech rules in his attack on Muslims. To do so, Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook’s chief operating officer, was told by her Washington office, ran the risk of making an enemy of the Republican party."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -the-right" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm looking forward to DJT walking out when he doesn't like a journalist's question ...

" POTUS runs away "

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 3:15 pm

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/h ... cret-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

High court go-ahead for challenge to government’s ‘failure to ensure secret vote’

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 3:32 pm

Willow904 wrote:Morning.

All I can say is that US elections are weird. While a Republican congress hopeful headed off to Washington, they kept counting votes back in California and now she's actually behind her democrat rival. Official result not due until 14th Dec so plenty of time to pull back, but it's still pretty weird she's posing for pictures with other new congressmen/women and she may not have even won!

https://amp.slate.com/news-and-politics ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

California’s 39th Congressional District Shows Why You Keep Counting Until You Count All the Votes

It's not typical. I don't recognise these proceedings as anything like I've experienced while I lived in the US.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 3:32 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 3:35 pm

PorFavor wrote:Is anyone else here fed up with almost everything being prefixed by "so-called"? And as for "if you like". . . (I think I covered "literally" in a previous post, so I'll stop now.)

We're being worn down by the so-called tedious repeated repeatedly, if you like. Literally.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 4:32 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsMUHt0XoAA ... me=900x900" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@JolyonMaugham
BBC Radio 5 leading with the 'story' five ministers want to renegotiate the deal. No mention of the fact the EU has ruled out a renegotiation. No good reason to treat these silly unicorn hunts as serious stories. They serve only to distract from the fact the Brexit deal stinks.

Replying to @JolyonMaugham
The story is really “Five go to Brussels to Renegotiate and Find No one Interested”

Sean Callaghan @keanespirit
I think they’ve already written a book about this gang of five children and their fantasy jaunt #Leadsom and gang
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HT Miss Chin

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 7:09 pm

Evening all. Back from a very entertaining afternoon at the British Museum...

So, on a scale of 1-10 how dim do you have to be to come out with something like this?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, you can use a Spinal tap scale if you wish...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 7:17 pm

PorFavor wrote:Earlier today, I heard John McDonnell being interviewed re "Brexit". Did I detect a hint that he is comng round to the idea of supporting a second referendum? Obviously, he can't be seen to be advocating one - but is he now nearing the point where he is prepared to support one (albeit under the cover of "regretfully")?

Jeremy Corbyn is keeping a low profile.

The trend has been clear to party Kremlinologists for a while now.

I was amused to see the #FBPE brigade lose their s*** in drearily familiar fashion the other day when Corbyn said another referendum was "not a priority" - when the obvious thing for me to note from his remarks was that he wasn't ruling it out.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 7:32 pm

Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn (presumably not together - although that wasn't made clear) are being interviewed tomorrow (on Sky News Channel with Sophie Ridge??). I think it kicks off at 9am.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 8:22 pm

If they were together it might actually be worth watching.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 8:23 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:--
...Corbyn said another referendum was "not a priority" - when the obvious thing for me to note from his remarks was that he wasn't ruling it out.

(cJA edit & emphasis)
yes!
Corbyn confirmed he wasn't ruling it out

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 8:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn (presumably not together - although that wasn't made clear) are being interviewed tomorrow (on Sky News Channel with Sophie Ridge??). I think it kicks off at 9am.

Of course it wasn't made clear
There's a concerted effort being made linking Theresa May's witless position with Corbyn's right now even though they're most certainly not in agreement

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 8:40 pm

I'm finding current events confusing
Labour party leadership's recent communications are welcome and coherent, in my opinion
a lot of media is spin is flatly contradictory to it

Post by **refitman** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 8:41 pm

What would it take to get Hoey kicked out?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 9:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:If they were together it might actually be worth watching.......

Agree - but, nevertheless, I'm interested to see if he's more evasive, or not, on a second referendum than was John O'Donnell. Election notwithstanding, it's beginning to look (even if there's an election which Labour wins) as if it's the only course of action left. Although, should Labour win an election, I think we'd gain a bit more time.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 9:27 pm

I know we're told that "Brexit" supporting voters have upped Labour's poll ratings (UKIP's too, unfortunately) but I'd love to know what proportion of Labour's poll ratings rise is attributable to a "Brexit" support shift v a "Remainers" shift.

(And, no, I have no great faith in polls - especially with such a small difference. But I'd still be interested (as an academic exercise)).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 9:39 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all. Back from a very entertaining afternoon at the British Museum...

So, on a scale of 1-10 how dim do you have to be to come out with something like this?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, you can use a Spinal tap scale if you wish...

Right off even the Raabscale.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:21 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... aign-funds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Emails reveal Arron Banks’ links to Steve Bannon in quest for campaign cash"

The emails are likely to be scrutinised in the US where Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, has interviewed Bannon a number of times.
An email, dated 24 October 2015, written by Banks and copied to Bannon among others, states that Leave.EU “would like CA [Cambridge Analytica] to come up with a strategy for fundraising in the States and engaging companies and special interest groups that might be affected by TTIP [ Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership ].”

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:26 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... aign-funds
"Emails reveal Arron Banks’ links to Steve Bannon in quest for campaign cash"
The emails are likely to be scrutinised in the US where Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, has interviewed Bannon a number of times.
An email, dated 24 October 2015, written by Banks and copied to Bannon among others, states that Leave.EU “would like CA [Cambridge Analytica] to come up with a strategy for fundraising in the States and engaging companies and special interest groups that might be affected by TTIP [ Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership ].”

One year he's looking for money and then he finds £8mio down the back of his sofa ...

More detail from Carole Cadwalladr here, very recent too --

Why Britain Needs Its Own Mueller

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/1 ... n-mueller/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 17 Nov, 2018 11:35 pm

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/11/17 ... 64x543.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under new management ! nn

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 4:22 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ar-degrees" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government boosts student choice with two-year degrees

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 7:34 am

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 8:20 am

HindleA wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true

Was just about to post that one !

Online abuse is a tawdry attempt to limit what we say Carole Cadwalladr

" for well over a year Banks, the Bristol businessman who donated upwards of £8m to Nigel Farage’s Leave.EU campaign, has been seeking to undermine my credibility as a reporter. He’s been seeking to intimidate me and the Observer and stop us from publishing. The “crazy cat lady” image didn’t come from Neil. It came from Banks. It’s been a key piece of his arsenal in his campaign of targeted harassment against me.
...
If you rely on the BBC for your news, you’ll know little of Banks’ covert relationship with the Russian government; of the gold-and-diamond deals they tried to broker for him.

It was this story, about Banks’ many meetings with the Russian ambassador, about his central role in the Trump-Russia story, which the Observer broke back in June, that precipitated Banks’ furious response. A distraction story. That has worked. And worked again. "

I'm not highlighting the misogyny, because literally anything is used by the unscrupulous to attack opponents. Older members will remember the story of LBJ and the pig farmer ?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 8:26 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ar-degrees

Government boosts student choice with two-year degrees

Accelerated degrees meet exactly the same quality assurance measures as standard degrees and will provide exactly the same level of qualification. For example, a two-year accelerated degree will condense 3-year degrees with 30 weeks teaching into 2 years with 45 weeks teaching.

Interesting that there is no comment on this from the universities themselves.

Wonder what PFY thinks?

I could imagine academics wondering when their research and writing is going to get done. Or maybe Gyimah thinks they happen by magic?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 9:00 am

" To anyone who does not live in their fantasy universe, this will look like an act of narcissistic self-pleasuring at the expense of Britain. It also has the hallmarks of an exercise in utter futility. Just as they have never produced a plausible solution to Brexit, so the ultras cannot explain precisely what they expect to achieve by attempting to dethrone Mrs May at this point. "

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... elses-turn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Easier on the eye than the raucous interweb shout of “WANKERS !

The Famous Five are having their Action Breakfast …. plotting against the odds to drag us to their Promised Land of Glorious Post-Brexitiania.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:11 am

Good morfternoon.

Every time a word disappears, we lose a little of our spirit and wit
Rachel Cooke (Guardian)

I thought this was very good. It made me feel sad, though.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... it-and-wit

Edited - typo

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:12 am

frog222 wrote:https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/11/17 ... 64x543.jpg

Under new management ! nn

Is this the Daily Mail, or its Sunday stablemate? The latter has ploughed its own (distinctly non-Dacreist) furrow on Brexit for some time now.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:24 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frog222 wrote:

Under new management ! nn
Is this the Daily Mail, or its Sunday stablemate? The latter has ploughed its own (distinctly non-Dacreist) furrow on Brexit for some time now.

Well, it's dated the 17th, and the Sandbrook one was definitely DM - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... -deal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure you know that the DM has a new editor, tho Dacre is still 'upstairs' .

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:36 am

FYI the G has PoliticsLive today.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... yn-eu-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marr asks if it is voted down with the help of the SNP, what happens next?

Sturgeon says the House of Commons should not allow itself to be put in the frying pan or the fire, she echoes May’s words that no deal was better than a bad deal, but says that is what she is offering.

She says she understands why the EU doesn’t want an endless re-negotiation, but if there was a different option such as a clear change in direction the EU would be prepared to look at it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:37 am

Well, I managed to miss most of Theresa May's interview and all of Jeremy Corbyn's. I expect both interviews will be on again (in full, I hope). Did anyone here catch them?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 10:58 am

This is in The Times.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bene ... -0wwml87fd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 18 Nov, 2018 11:59 am

They will pick the juicy and sympathetic to their taste.There is more coverage of the SMI change to loan in the right wing press.