Wednesday 21st November 2018

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refitman
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Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Morning.

Anyone feeling "bolstered" today like Theresa?

She's in fine fettle. Bolstered because fewer than 48 MPs sent letters of no confidence.

I wish I could feel bolstered like her :twisted:
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Hope HindleA didn't hear Amber Rudd this morning.

Apparently she thinks UC is a "force for good" :evil:
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Willow904
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by Willow904 »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sturgeon urges Tory remainers to help build soft Brexit coalition
Sturgeon saying here what I've been commenting, that if the withdrawal agreement is to be rejected, those doing so need to be able to come together with a majority in the house for an alternative. Voting it down and hoping it will somehow all work out simply isn't good enough:
However, she cautioned against over-optimism. “Let’s take this step by step. There’s no doubt this is the job we’ve got to do – saying that you’re against the prime minister’s deal and that we all think that no deal is not an option are important statements, but they only take you so far.

“We’re not there yet … We know what we don’t agree with and don’t like. What we now need to do is work together on what we think is the better alternative. I’m up for the SNP being part of it.”
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -coalition
Sturgeon urges Tory remainers to help build soft Brexit coalition
Sturgeon saying here what I've been commenting, that if the withdrawal agreement is to be rejected, those doing so need to be able to come together with a majority in the house for an alternative. Voting it down and hoping it will somehow all work out simply isn't good enough:
However, she cautioned against over-optimism. “Let’s take this step by step. There’s no doubt this is the job we’ve got to do – saying that you’re against the prime minister’s deal and that we all think that no deal is not an option are important statements, but they only take you so far.

“We’re not there yet … We know what we don’t agree with and don’t like. What we now need to do is work together on what we think is the better alternative. I’m up for the SNP being part of it.”
Indeed. I'm pleased Sturgeon has opened up this line of thinking.

For me there is one crucial thing. This coalition will only I believe come together if it looks forward to what the relationship between the UK and EU could be, rather than what it was.
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -coalition
Sturgeon urges Tory remainers to help build soft Brexit coalition
Sturgeon saying here what I've been commenting, that if the withdrawal agreement is to be rejected, those doing so need to be able to come together with a majority in the house for an alternative. Voting it down and hoping it will somehow all work out simply isn't good enough:
However, she cautioned against over-optimism. “Let’s take this step by step. There’s no doubt this is the job we’ve got to do – saying that you’re against the prime minister’s deal and that we all think that no deal is not an option are important statements, but they only take you so far.
“We’re not there yet … We know what we don’t agree with and don’t like. What we now need to do is work together on what we think is the better alternative. I’m up for the SNP being part of it.”
Indeed. I'm pleased Sturgeon has opened up this line of thinking.
For me there is one crucial thing. This coalition will only I believe come together if it looks forward to what the relationship between the UK and EU could be, rather than what it was.
What about the relationship between the 52 and 48% ?

"That projection was already a reality for lots of people I met who plumped for Brexit in 2016. They were on minimum wage and had minimum rights and minimum prospects. If Brexit is to be radically changed now, it is those voters – the disenfranchised Labourites, the sod-them-all brigade – whose support is needed. A second referendum, in which well-meaning metropolitans offer those in the Rhondda the status quo, probably deserves to fail. Instead, any remain option will have to come with a worked-out argument about rebalancing power in this country. And that means reshaping the relationship between capital and the rest of us."

• Aditya Chakrabortty is a Guardian columnist

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ter-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's the ideal, is there any chance of getting closer to it ?
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hope HindleA didn't hear Amber Rudd this morning.

Apparently she thinks UC is a "force for good" :evil:
Though if her reported comments about "no deal" are accurate, the PM is unlikely to be that pleased with her either :twisted:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by adam »

SNOW!
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.

Anyone feeling "bolstered" today like Theresa?

She's in fine fettle. Bolstered because fewer than 48 MPs sent letters of no confidence.

I wish I could feel bolstered like her :twisted:
Utterly dreadful stuff from the Graun. Their political reporting really has become indistinguishable from the right wing press much of the time.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Someone please tell Laura Kuenssberg that "OPD" is not an acronym.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Did our PM really accuse Corbyn of "saying different things to different people" re Brexit at PMQs? :D

Even some lobby hacks felt constrained to point out the brass neck involved in that one.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.

Anyone feeling "bolstered" today like Theresa?

She's in fine fettle. Bolstered because fewer than 48 MPs sent letters of no confidence.

I wish I could feel bolstered like her :twisted:
Utterly dreadful stuff from the Graun. Their political reporting really has become indistinguishable from the right wing press much of the time.
I've noticed that too
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone
PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
frog222
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Image

John Pienaar just now on the general situation -- " so many hypotheticals " !

Looks like the intra-UK now panicky debate could restart almost back to square one .

One thing at least, the ERG have taken a well-deserved hit :-)
frog222
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

RE 1.37 OTOH the ERG oldies are keeping their powder dry --
DT " "The oldies know that they will be in a far more powerful position when it comes to the meaningful vote, when they have got Labour, the Scots nats, and the DUP with them. They don’t need her to lose by miles, they just need her to lose. That’s the main event here. The Brexiteers may not be united on the timing of bringing down Mrs May, but they are united in stopping her version of Brexit and the meaningful vote is the only way they can do that. If she loses the vote, Brexit is reborn.” "

Just chuck all the cards up in the air ! Again :-)
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

QUESTION FOR ALL !

Has anyone seen a poll asking IF holding the referendum at all had been a mistake ?

I wonder how the various 52ers and 48ers would answer that one ?

Of course if a sizable majority wish that the bloody thing had never happened it does rather throw back responsibility on those MP's who voted for it !

Own up !
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Sorry to indulge in a bit of Graun-bashing today, but their article and (still more so) chart on "populism" approaches "so bad its actually good" territory.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Sorry to indulge in a bit of Graun-bashing today, but their article and (still more so) chart on "populism" approaches "so bad its actually good" territory.
no need to apologise
keeping the pot boiling, in the old-fashioned sense
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

frog222 wrote:RE 1.37 OTOH the ERG oldies are keeping their powder dry --
DT " "The oldies know that they will be in a far more powerful position when it comes to the meaningful vote, when they have got Labour, the Scots nats, and the DUP with them. They don’t need her to lose by miles, they just need her to lose. That’s the main event here. The Brexiteers may not be united on the timing of bringing down Mrs May, but they are united in stopping her version of Brexit and the meaningful vote is the only way they can do that. If she loses the vote, Brexit is reborn.” "

Just chuck all the cards up in the air ! Again :-)
Tory-DUP MPs will do anything but jeopardise the minority government

edited to add
I'm not happy about this
I hope I'm wrong and Tory government falls
PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PorFavor »

6m ago 14:53

According to Bloomberg, the EU summit planned for Sunday to sign off the withdrawal agreement “may not go ahead if the final part of the Brexit deal isn’t completed by Thursday morning”. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:RE 1.37 OTOH the ERG oldies are keeping their powder dry --
DT " "The oldies know that they will be in a far more powerful position when it comes to the meaningful vote, when they have got Labour, the Scots nats, and the DUP with them. They don’t need her to lose by miles, they just need her to lose. That’s the main event here. The Brexiteers may not be united on the timing of bringing down Mrs May, but they are united in stopping her version of Brexit and the meaningful vote is the only way they can do that. If she loses the vote, Brexit is reborn.” "
Just chuck all the cards up in the air ! Again :-)
Tory-DUP MPs will do anything but jeopardise the minority government
edited to add
I'm not happy about this I hope I'm wrong and Tory government falls
THEN the new coalition would OWN it :-)
( Whatever 'it' is !)
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

frog222 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:RE 1.37 OTOH the ERG oldies are keeping their powder dry --
DT " "The oldies know that they will be in a far more powerful position when it comes to the meaningful vote, when they have got Labour, the Scots nats, and the DUP with them. They don’t need her to lose by miles, they just need her to lose. That’s the main event here. The Brexiteers may not be united on the timing of bringing down Mrs May, but they are united in stopping her version of Brexit and the meaningful vote is the only way they can do that. If she loses the vote, Brexit is reborn.” "
Just chuck all the cards up in the air ! Again :-)
Tory-DUP MPs will do anything but jeopardise the minority government
edited to add
I'm not happy about this I hope I'm wrong and Tory government falls
THEN the new coalition would OWN it :-)
( Whatever 'it' is !)
Small comfort
peoples' lives, homes, careers, family, citizenship and reciprocal arrangements in place for decades are being played with here
I've written this before
I'm distressed by these proceedings
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by adam »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Did our PM really accuse Corbyn of "saying different things to different people" re Brexit at PMQs? :D

Even some lobby hacks felt constrained to point out the brass neck involved in that one.
May has told MPs that voting down her deal could leave to the UK staying in the EU (see 12.09pm) - but also that the UK will definitely leave the EU on 29 March next year (see 12.38pm.) These flatly contradictory statements came after Amber Rudd, the new work and pensions secretary, told the Today programme this morning that parliament would not allow a no deal Brexit. (See 9.18am.)
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frog222
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Well done !
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adam
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by adam »

frog222 wrote:Well done !
Stolen wholesale from the lunchtime summary in the guardian daily politics!

(Wholesale Stollen would be better, obviously).

(It's the snow. Sorry.)
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

adam wrote:edit---
May has told MPs that voting down her deal could leave to the UK staying in the EU (see 12.09pm) - but also that the UK will definitely leave the EU on 29 March next year (see 12.38pm.) These flatly contradictory statements came after Amber Rudd, the new work and pensions secretary, told the Today programme this morning that parliament would not allow a no deal Brexit. (See 9.18am.)
the final words of all on board a swiftly sinking ship would have greater coherence than this
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote: THEN the new coalition would OWN it :-)
( Whatever 'it' is !)
Small comfort
peoples' lives, homes, careers, family, citizenship and reciprocal arrangements in place for decades are being played with here
I've written this before
I'm distressed by these proceedings
Agreed that there are almost certainly going to be casualties over and above the existing cruelties of Austerity, the DWP and Home Office.
But since there ain't anything I can do about it (apart from hoping the Ministry of the Interior doesn't throw the book at me over a small detail on a form ten years ago ...) I do my best to find amusement where I can :-)

" For example I loved this on the LT 14.37 from Andrew Rosindell MP for Romford

" I agree with the people of Romford who are deeply unhappy by the proposed EU deal, which they believe does not represent the Brexit they voted for.

Will she now, even at this late stage, please think again and instead lead our country in a new direction completely cutting away the tentacles of the EU over our cherished island nation once and for all?
"

Will the Romfordians march on Westminster when they are betrayed ?

Shades of Vee For Vendetta !
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

@frog222
:lol:

thank you
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PorFavor »

I presume she's still on the 13th floor in Brussels?
Last edited by PorFavor on Wed 21 Nov, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

... " the unpleasants’ revolt appears – for the time being at least – to be a busted flush. " ...

That's as far as I've got , don't know if it's a good'un ---

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-unknowns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by PorFavor »

PorFavor wrote:I presume she's still on the 13th floor in Brussels?
No she isn't - apparently she's round at the Ambassador's place, recording a statement. Why she's recording it is a mystery to me.





Edited - typo
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I presume she's still on the 13th floor in Brussells?
No she isn't - apparently she's round at the Ambassador's place, recording a statement. Why she's recording it is a mystery to me.
Edited - typo
May's not Prime Ministerial material
Tories operate under different rules than the rest of us
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Corbyn won't brawl with May on the days she goes abroad after PMQs
You all notice that?
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by frog222 »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@PropertySpot
7h7 hours ago

On the Sunday before the referendum, Dominic Raab says that "Turkish membership of the EU is a question of when, not if."

Question for @DominicRaab: when do you expect it to happen?


When they open their mouths
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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Re: Wednesday 21st November 2018

Post by HindleA »

The problem is/was the "everybody agreed" line. I equally hold the left responsible.What did they think would happen,decades of evidentially introduced changes subject to changing Society removed/simplified..The sick/disabled in particular are paying the price of historical amnesia and if.you are s homeowner you simply shouldn't be there.The same ignorance is widespread in the narrative of social care.
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