Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

'We gave traditional war a trial run using overt violence but combatants not demanding an eye for eye stymied our endeavour. All those vile peace loving nonviolent protesters. What's a fascist to do. Call them names, tell lies, divert, disparage, kneel before the monarchy, illegally deport respectable and mild citizens unlikely to create a fuss, never let the rest get out and for goodness sake bury that damn NHS.... Now, fix me a cocktail.'
Last edited by citizenJA on Sat 24 Nov, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

You forgot the PTO, frog ;)

This place has certainly livened up since this morning, which is nice.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:You forgot the PTO, frog ;)

This place has certainly livened up since this morning, which is nice.
oh, honey
I am seething
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

frog222 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Utterly duplicitous, disingenuous bullshit messing with the lives, property, employment, health and citizenship of millions of human beings for god damn what?
One of the most intensely angering ones for me is the repetition of

FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT

with nobody qualifying it eg enforcing the EU 2004 Regs etc .

I find it infuriating that Labour is as dumb as the Tories on that one .

Running scared , of the electorate, and too gutless to educate them.
Who and what May fears is as alarming as the words out of her mouth. I mean exactly that, what or who inside her head, not anyone she's actually talking to. Stoke Brexit supporters never said a damn word about ending freedom of movement. The ones I know use it.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ssion=true


NatWest close branches after housing-benefit protests
good lord
Mortgage contract inclusion forbidding renting property to benefit recipients can't be legal
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Brexit: High Court to rule if referendum vote ‘void’ as early as Christmas after Arron Banks investigation"
Ewan McGaughey, a senior law lecturer at King’s College London, has written: “The order by the prime minister to trigger Article 50 and negotiate to leave the EU could be declared void.
“Now, it’s a big thing to litigate the very validity of Brexit. But if Russian athletes win Olympic medals when they are taking drugs, their victories are not valid. The same is true of a corrupt vote.”
One senior Tory told The Independent: “If Arron Banks were to be charged and found guilty after the police investigation, he could go to prison. The man who played a big role in securing Brexit could yet help to destroy it.”
.
frog222
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

citizenJA wrote:
frog222 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Utterly duplicitous, disingenuous bullshit messing with the lives, property, employment, health and citizenship of millions of human beings for god damn what?
One of the most intensely angering ones for me is the repetition of

FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT

with nobody qualifying it eg enforcing the EU 2004 Regs etc .

I find it infuriating that Labour is as dumb as the Tories on that one .

Running scared , of the electorate, and too gutless to educate them.
Who and what May fears is as alarming as the words out of her mouth. I mean exactly that, what or who inside her head, not anyone she's actually talking to. Stoke Brexit supporters never said a damn word about ending freedom of movement. The ones I know use it.
It's not only MAY . The LP could change the language, the vocab of brexit, but do not .

Either they are too thick, or too cowardly, or they reckon the electorate are really really too dumb to take a joke about the general insane ridiculousness of the present situation .
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

frog222 wrote:---
It's not only MAY . The LP could change the language, the vocab of brexit, but do not .

Either they are too thick, or too cowardly, or they reckon the electorate are really really too dumb to take a joke about the general insane ridiculousness of the present situation .
(cJA edit)

After some uncomfortable thinking, I've must concede the evidence suggests you're right.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

WooHoo, HooHoo, etc

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nal-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“” Damian Collins, the chair of the culture, media and sport select committee, invoked a rare parliamentary mechanism to compel the founder of a US software company, Six4Three, to hand over the documents during a business trip to London.

In another exceptional move, parliament sent a serjeant at arms to his hotel with a final warning and a two-hour deadline to comply with its order. When the software firm founder failed to do so, it’s understood he was escorted to parliament. He was told he risked fines and even imprisonment if he didn’t hand over the documents.

“We are in uncharted territory,” said Collins, who also chairs an inquiry into fake news. “This is an unprecedented move but it’s an unprecedented situation. We’ve failed to get answers from Facebook and we believe the documents contain information of very high public interest.”
“”

'Exceptional move' , I love it . No pissing around !

Begin with the serjeant at arms and finish with the mothas in the Tower .

And throw away the key ( as they say ) :-)
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

I think our political system, procedures, protocol, constitutional ambiguity, the monarchy for chrissake, and adversarial side-taking in the House is dysfunctional. It doesn't bring out the best in everyone. It panders to the worst. Then you're stuck in that House with the greatest will in the world and you got to dissemble, alter what you want to say for what you have to say.

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by citizenJA »

May begs the public: unite behind me on Brexit deal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... pen-letter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You've made and continue to make reckless and dishonest choices, May. I can't support your 'Brexit deal'.
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adam
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by adam »

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html
"Brexit: High Court to rule if referendum vote ‘void’ as early as Christmas after Arron Banks investigation"
Ewan McGaughey, a senior law lecturer at King’s College London, has written: “The order by the prime minister to trigger Article 50 and negotiate to leave the EU could be declared void.
“Now, it’s a big thing to litigate the very validity of Brexit. But if Russian athletes win Olympic medals when they are taking drugs, their victories are not valid. The same is true of a corrupt vote.”
One senior Tory told The Independent: “If Arron Banks were to be charged and found guilty after the police investigation, he could go to prison. The man who played a big role in securing Brexit could yet help to destroy it.”
.
My very strong suspicion is that the court will bend over backwards to find a way to avoid voiding the referendum.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... tives.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Lucy Woodcock: By backing a ‘People’s Vote’, May could save the Conservatives"
Hopefully this isn't Lucy Woodcock's main motive, but interesting approach. ;)
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adam
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by adam »

citizenJA wrote:
May begs the public: unite behind me on Brexit deal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... pen-letter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You've made and continue to make reckless and dishonest choices, May. I can't support your 'Brexit deal'.
One of the interesting points in this article in the guardian earlier today, which has been said before lot of times but is worth saying again is...
But ask for their top Brexit takeaway so far, and the most common response is: EU solidarity matters, and it works.

That, and some surprise at the UK’s ineptitude. “It was clear to most Europeans that the Brexiters’ promises were empty,” said Anna-Lena Högenauer of Luxembourg’s Institute of Political Sciences. “Most, though, thought it was just politics, that there was some kind of plan behind the rhetoric.”

The discovery that there was not, Högenauer said, was something of a shock. “The UK basically jumped into the ocean blindfold, and started paddling round in circles. It was almost like it expected the EU not just to say what Brexit should look like, but to devise a version of it that would suit Britain.”
If she wants our support, she needs to be honest. We voted to leave off the back of a campaign of lies. If people were concerned about controlling borders (which sometimes appears to be the only thing she's concentrating on) we could have controlled immigration under existing EU rules but never bothered. The deal she's putting forward will cut NI off from the rest of the UK, could well lead to a united Ireland and could quite possibly also lead to an independent Scotland. And she's working towards a Canada style FTA with a loss of frictionless trade which will mean we're dong all of this in order to take a massive economic hit.

That's the plan. Please give me your support.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Evening all. Had a day at the library today..
Tim Shipman


@ShippersUnbound
10h10 hours ago
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Mark Francois has confirmed that he did write the letter to SIR John Hayes about his knighthood, urging him to get a coat of arms containing “an utter cock rampant on one side and a big chicken on the other”.
:lol:

Iain Dale has the original letter.

https://www.iaindale.com/articles/tory- ... nighthood?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... tives.html
"Lucy Woodcock: By backing a ‘People’s Vote’, May could save the Conservatives"
Hopefully this isn't Lucy Woodcock's main motive, but interesting approach. ;)
I know these are crazy times, but its still next to impossible to see how she could pull that off.

(especially since she has already said it will "never" happen)
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

NN all , but first some History...

https://media.wired.com/photos/5af21969 ... oto_01.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

Putting aside our 2018 opinions on the Vietnam War, I checked out Bob Mueller some time ago , the very antithesis of the Orange Monster .
https://www.wired.com/story/robert-mueller-vietnam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/ ... lar-panels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Homeowners trapped by 25-year solar panel contracts
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Bonkers Jeremiahs in a spin spouting platitudes on Ridge (5,11).
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Bonkers Jeremiahs in a spin spouting platitudes on Ridge (5,11).
Better than Marr, isn't she? Though that of course isn't hard.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Bonkers Jeremiahs in a spin spouting platitudes on Ridge (5,11).
Better than Marr, isn't she? Though that of course isn't hard.
Indeed.

I guess this is a good example of allowing the subject the space to reveal his incompetence and let the viewers make up their own minds.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

FACEBOOK NEWS

edit : Documents alleged to contain revelations on data and privacy controls that led to Cambridge Analytica scandal

" In another exceptional move, parliament sent a serjeant at arms to his hotel with a final warning and a two-hour deadline to comply with its order. When the software firm founder failed to do so, it’s understood he was escorted to parliament. He was told he risked fines and even imprisonment if he didn’t hand over the documents. "

Imprisonment in the Tower, I hope ?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... nal-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carole Cadwalladr doesn't tell us when this happened , but that may be in today's papers ?

Facebook's new head of global policy and communications is going to be busy ... :-)
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adam
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by adam »

End of May's letter to the people
On 29 March next year, the United Kingdom will leave the European Union. We will then begin a new chapter in our national life. I want that to be a moment of renewal and reconciliation for our whole country. It must mark the point when we put aside the labels of ‘leave’ and ‘remain’ for good and we come together again as one people. To do that we need to get on with Brexit now by getting behind this deal.
In other words - we need to pretend that this is something that just happened because it happened, and pretend that nobody was responsible for it. We need to pretend that there was never any alternative once the initial die was cast. We need to pretend that there is no possible way to hold anybody to account because there is nobody to hold to account.

You still see comments saying she is admirable, resilient, brave. She is a despicable coward.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

"Breathtakingly disingenuous" is about the kindest description I can muster for that pile of wombat's droppings :twisted:
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frog222
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Brengland decides to amputate both its feet.
The neighbours persuade it to do just one.
Celebrations ?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Sunday morning’s Pienaar’s Politics on Five is a good listen

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tl965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

10 mins — an optimistic Planet-brexit Liz Truss …

24 mins — an optimistic cakeist John Trickett

” On what planet will a non EU-member have a say on future EU trade deals ? “

JT " erm ... we're a big player ..." (well, something like that .)

The next programme is Five Live Investigates, on the new Bovis house with 354 faults.

Of course the housebuilders are self-regulating .
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

A study analyzes the impact of targeted Facebook advertising on the (US) election.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 155940.htm

"Our results show that learning about politics on Facebook does not make voters more informed, but does make them less likely to change their voting choice, which is very in line with the concept of political polarisation. This effect is particularly visible among men, Republican voters and people with a low level of education."
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Poorest dying nearly 10 years younger than the rich in 'deeply worrying' trend for UK

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 135003.htm

The life expectancy of women in the most deprived communities in 2016 was 78.8 years, compared to 86.7 years in the most affluent group. For men, the life expectancy was 74.0 years among the poorest, compared to 83.8 years among the richest.

"We currently have a perfect storm of factors that can impact on health, and that are leading to poor people dying younger. Working income has stagnated and benefits have been cut, forcing many working families to use foodbanks. The price of healthy foods like fresh fruit and vegetables has increased relative to unhealthy, processed food, putting them out of the reach of the poorest."

He added: "The funding squeeze for health and cuts to local government services since 2010 have also had a significant impact on the most deprived communities, leading to treatable diseases such as cancer being diagnosed too late, or people dying sooner from conditions like dementia."
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

frog222 wrote:Brengland decides to amputate both its feet.
The neighbours persuade it to do just one.
Celebrations ?
Everything is relative.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by HindleA »

Invisible Britain edited by Paul Sng review – the voices of austerity

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

I notice Brexiteers saying that May has sold Gibraltar out...maybe they ought to take a look at the %age who voted Remain there again.

"Gibraltar's British and therefore it'll do what we tell them to" seems to be the message they're putting across.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Missed this from earlier...Tories really uniting behind their leader...
Sarah Wollaston MP

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7h7 hours ago
More Sarah Wollaston MP Retweeted UK Prime Minister
Deeply shocking that the PM drags out the old NHS funding deception in her letter. There is NO financial bonanza linked to Brexit only a massive penalty for the NHS, research, public health & social care.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by Willow904 »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ene-foster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DUP may back Norway-style Brexit deal, says Arlene Foster
Well, not exactly. The headline goes a little beyond what Foster actually says, but I think the inference is fair given it's the only real way you could have Brexit, no hard Irish border and keep NI completely on the same terms with the EU as the rest of the UK.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ene-foster
DUP may back Norway-style Brexit deal, says Arlene Foster
Well, not exactly. The headline goes a little beyond what Foster actually says, but I think the inference is fair given it's the only real way you could have Brexit, no hard Irish border and keep NI completely on the same terms with the EU as the rest of the UK.
I think it was in 2016 that Yanis Varoufakis predicted that Norway was the best that the UK could hope for . ( I'm tempted to write 'Brengland' because the UK is so disunited and the fantasy of buccaneering Elizabethan independence is purely English .)
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

This from Chris Grey is grim ---

" Many businesses are more interested in stability and predictability than in Brexit per se, and the deal gives a degree of this because of the two year or more transition period. And, alas for jobs, investment and taxes in the UK, one thing that period will give is time for businesses to relocate. "

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course he's right that the Withdrawal Agreement settle absolutely nothing 'once and for all' , as TMay proclaims !
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by Willow904 »

Btw does anyone have any thoughts on this whole Momentum/David Icke thing?

It's been popping up on my Twitter feed and it's all a bit, well, odd. It is undoubtedly the case that Icke believes some pretty weird shit. And I believe some people interpret some of what he says as anti-Semitic and I can see why Momentum would like to be seen as opposing anti-Semitism, but targeting Icke feels a bit wrong to me, somehow. Partly because I worry it may provide credibility to someone who otherwise would be dismissed as an irrelevant crank and partly because setting up an individual who isn't in a position of power as a focal point of attack for a political party seems a bit off somehow. Yes, perhaps he spreads some conspiracy theories that may promote anti-semitism, but he also appears to genuinely believe this Lizard stuff and predicted the world would end in 1997. I certainly understand why Labour members might oppose him speaking at Labour sponsored events, but surely there is a less aggressive and hate filled way to approach the controversy surrounding this strange man than posting attack ads against him all over social media?I

I'm not going to post a link, because I don't want to promote it, but it shouldn't be hard to find for those not familiar with this - well - I'm not sure what it is. Row? Schism? Insanity?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I think that Icke *is* an anti-Semite and several of his pronouncements back this up.

(there is certainly far more reason to believe it about him than Corbyn, put it that way)

Also worth pointing out that the event in question was organised by Watford's elected mayor, who just happens to be a LibDem.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@DamianCollins

The @CommonsCMS has received the documents it ordered from Six4Three relating to Facebook. I have reviewed them and the committee will discuss how we will proceed early next week. Under UK law & parliamentary privilege we can publish papers if we choose to as part of our inquiry
---------------------------------

Anyone interested in anti-Semitism will find bigger fish than Icke FAR more in the public eye

Who is the real Nigel Farage... and why won't he answer my questions?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Soros -- the new rootless cosmopolitan ...
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I think that Icke *is* an anti-Semite and several of his pronouncements back this up.

(there is certainly far more reason to believe it about him than Corbyn, put it that way)

Also worth pointing out that the event in question was organised by Watford's elected mayor, who just happens to be a LibDem.
So it wasn't even a Labour event? I'm even more confused, tbh. Icke has been around for years. Why now? Why the aggressive attack ads?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Crace https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-dreams" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All very SAD .
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

Greendreamer --

" The High Court will rule as early as Christmas whether Brexit should be declared “void”, in a legal case given a turbo-boost by the criminal investigation into Leave funder Arron Banks.

Judges are poised to fast track the potentially explosive challenge, after Theresa May’s refusal to act on the growing evidence of illegality in the 2016 referendum campaign, The Independent can reveal. "

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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adam
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by adam »

There's a good piece in Jon Ronson's 'Them - Adventures With Extremists' when he's talking to people about David Icke and they're trying to explain to him that when Icke talks about giant lizard people he's being anti-semitic in a coded way, and Ronson is trying to explain back to them that no, he really seems to be believe in the giant lizard people thing.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

WTF?
Chris Sherman

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US Border Patrol has just launched tear gas into Mexico. Breeze carrying it hundreds of yards. Parents running away with choking toddlers. #migrantcaravan
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Theresa May challenges Corbyn to a Brexit debate :-o
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Theresa May challenges Corbyn to a Brexit debate :-o
Seriously?

I can't imagine why she'd do that - pretty high risk of making a fool of herself. Unless she thinks she has nothing to lose.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Theresa May challenges Corbyn to a Brexit debate :-o
Seriously?

I can't imagine why she'd do that - pretty high risk of making a fool of herself. Unless she thinks she has nothing to lose.
Perhaps Corbyn should say yes please but can we bring our Brexit Secretaries please?
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Theresa May challenges Corbyn to a Brexit debate :-o
Seriously?

I can't imagine why she'd do that - pretty high risk of making a fool of herself. Unless she thinks she has nothing to lose.
Perhaps Corbyn should say yes please but can we bring our Brexit Secretaries please?
Indeed.

I was reminded of him when Tim Stanley was complaining about the May document being impenetrable and the sort of thing a lawyer would produce...and I though, well, that's handy because...
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by frog222 »

LINK ?
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refitman
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th November 2018

Post by refitman »

frog222 wrote:LINK ?
Kipper has it: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PTO
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