Monday 3rd December 2018

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refitman
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Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

You get "fuckwits" everywhere.You also get people from Hartlepool from a comp. that got a first class honours degree from Oxford,and the three greatest people you are ever likely to meet in any measurement you care to use.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

Left wing demonisation so much better than the right.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

Imagine if a one legged giraffe was the Labour leader we would have won the World Cup and the Eurovision Song Contest.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/172 ... res-group/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

http://www.un.org/en/events/disabilitiesday/index.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Disorderly rented ratbag will not have to face a vote of no-confidence (6,6) [Hint: It's not Theresa May]
frog222
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Javid is going to publish his Immigration White Paper before the end of the year . Supposedly .

Meanwhile, even the CBI points out that low-skilled very often only means low-paid, which is very often underpaid .

" “This idea that there’s a £30,000 cap below which is described as low-skilled and not welcome in the UK is a damaging perspective for government to have for our economy,” she said. “People earning less than £30,000 make a hugely valuable contribution to our economy and society, from lab technicians to people in the food industry. ((She also mentions care-workers .))

“Many of our universities have staff on less than £30,000. So our offer to government is to work with us. We understand the challenge of building public trust, but we think there are much better answers.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -fairbairn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is an revealing example of the Guardian unthinkingly parroting the demeaning "low-skilled" label when they could be highlighting inequalities of income .
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Morning All

A delayed response to JA from yesterday. JA I'm sorry if my post wasn't very clear.

It seems to me that everyone agrees that the Meaningful Vote on May's "deal" will go against her.

It also seems likely that this will be followed immediately by a no confidence vote. So, I'm assuming these two things will occur.

The first unknown then is the outcome of the no confidence vote. A lot of people say May will survive it, though I'm not so sure. But let's assume she does. So, the question is what would May do next?

A number of commentators are suggesting that she could then appeal to the country instead of parliament in a second referendum, despite saying she never would. So, what would the referendum be? May would probably prefer her deal vs Remain (do folk agree?). And she might win that.

So, what do Labour do?

I'm wondering if they would seek to amend the referendum to change Remain to Remain & Reform. If the EU then came behind Labour's position it could be a winning hand. The reform would have to include something on freedom of movement, but as I've said before this doesn't need to be as unappealing as it sounds. It would also include Corbyn's state aid hobby horse. And so on.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Morning PFY 9.28 -- it all depends what you mean by 'Freedom of Movement' and 'Reform' :-)

Those are already slowly evolving from the 2004 position which the English chose not to implement with Blair's Open Door policy. Example now being some restrictions on seconded workers between states with very different wages/ NI systems. So all negotiable already, with time .

Also the EU immigration is now far behind non-EU which raises other questions .... !

Afraid I havent followed the state aid situation, but there is already some divergence between EU theory and practice, I think ? Some of UK railways are already run by other state-owned operators, which Clive Lewis pointed out on Friday's Any Questions .
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Was Jeremy Corbyn present at last Wednesday's Shadow Cabinet meeting ?

It's not clear from this article, but perhaps the journalist is an Evil Centrist :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... t-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

OUCH -- Live thread 11am

Legal note–not for general distribution

The Withdrawal Agreement: Legal and Governance Aspects

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengin ... spects.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the Withdrawal Agreement is a dead parrot . I seriously do wonder how and why Ollie Robbins went along with it ?
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Some light relief </cough> - " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youtube]uet4f3QwRQw[/youtube]

" Everybody gets what nobody wants ”
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Of course the HoC legal team's opinion could differ from the Solicitor General’s so far secret (full) legal advice to the Cabinet ...
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

frog222 wrote:Was Jeremy Corbyn present at last Wednesday's Shadow Cabinet meeting ?

It's not clear from this article, but perhaps the journalist is an Evil Centrist :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... t-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You're not very well clued up on these things over the channel, are you?

Even more so than Rawnsley (who you cited last night) Helm is known as one of Blair's few remaining reliable acolytes.

Treat anything he writes about Labour accordingly.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.

I've been mulling this over for a while -

Surely the term "low-skilled" should only apply to workers who are crap at their job?
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

HindleA wrote:Imagine if a one legged giraffe was the Labour leader we would have won the World Cup and the Eurovision Song Contest.
You should send some of these zingers to #FBPE types on Twitter ;)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
frog222
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frog222 wrote:Was Jeremy Corbyn present at last Wednesday's Shadow Cabinet meeting ?
It's not clear from this article, but perhaps the journalist is an Evil Centrist :-)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... t-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You're not very well clued up on these things over the channel, are you?
Even more so than Rawnsley (who you cited last night) Helm is known as one of Blair's few remaining reliable acolytes.
Treat anything he writes about Labour accordingly.
I only cite journos if they appear to be making sense. I distrust most of them but don't automatically assume that they are wrong and ill-intentioned on everything, as you do.
Now tell me if JC was present ? And also the other superior reports you are relying on .
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by HindleA »

I couldn't compete with their absurd certainty.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

What AH said.

99% of political journalists have an agenda of some sort, I admire more those who are open and unabashed about it - rather than pretending to some spurious "objectivity".
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

I heard Sajid Javid's attempts on Today to justify the non-EU migration figures...not very convincing. Seemed to be implying that it was the EU's fault they haven't come down which is...interesting.

Image
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frog222
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Was Jeremy Corbyn at last Wednesday's Shadow Cabinet meeting ?

Answers from journos with unabashed agendas are welcomed :-)
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Why do you care so much? ;)
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Oops.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why do you care so much? ;)
AK -- despite not having had a vote on that bloody referendum I am potentially at risk of a Hostile frog Environment if the fucking Tories continue treating 'forriners' as bargaining chips !
The consequences of Brexit have already unleashed the French bureaucracy to crack down on the most vulnerable Brits living here . They're just like the Home Office: "orders are orders", but so far only a small number of expulsions. A couple of examples somewhere in this --
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I left the UK in 1976, my NI was paid here since '83, and my pensions are EU, so I should be OK ... but so thought the 'Windrushed' from Africa and the Caribbean .
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Oh dear...
Kevin Schofield

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@PolhomeEditor
10m10 minutes ago
More
Geoffrey Cox confirms UK cannot "unilaterally" leave the Northern Ireland backstop, if it is triggered. Cue Brexiteer fury in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...
At what point do Brexiteers simply give up and say "We might just as well stay since the alternatives leave us in a worse position"?
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

From AS.
Harriet Harman, a Labour former leader of the Commons and former solicitor general, asks Cox to confirm that the publication of his document today does not mark compliance with the binding motion passed by MPs.

Cox says he is caught in “an acute clash of constitutional principle”.

He asks what would happen if he had given advice covering relations with foreign countries, or matters that might come before the courts in the future. Would it be right for that to be disclosed? It would not be in the public interest, he says.
Which roughly translates as "It's not in our interest"
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tinybgoat
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh dear...
Kevin Schofield

Verified account

@PolhomeEditor
10m10 minutes ago
More
Geoffrey Cox confirms UK cannot "unilaterally" leave the Northern Ireland backstop, if it is triggered. Cue Brexiteer fury in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ...
At what point do Brexiteers simply give up and say "We might just as well stay since the alternatives leave us in a worse position"?
Possibly they won't:

https://moneyweek.com/498512/relax-a-no ... l-be-fine/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Relax – a no-deal Brexit will be fine"
In truth, if we get into February with no deal in place, it won’t make much difference to the economy whether we leave with one or not. Business will have made its preparations. There will be disruption and expense, but we will already have suffered that. Two years ago, the costs of no deal were huge. A lot had to be done to prepare for our exit, and the potential for damage was substantial. After Christmas, the costs will be fairly minimal
Although looking at Wikipedia, the author i(Matthew Lynn) is apparently a successful fiction writer, but may not be the best judge of business ..
In a 2007 Bloomberg article, Matt Lynn predicted that Apple Inc. "…will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry."
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Fight!
Six opposition parties have written a joint letter to the speaker calling for contempt proceedings to be launched against the government over its failure to publish its Brexit legal advice in full.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Guess what question is the right one to ask Geoffrey Cox! If you guess correctly, he undertakes to answer it honestly. Have I got that right?
frog222
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

Legal Advice is one thing, but what does it actually … mean ? It’s an opinion and not a final judgement, so could be contested , and in just which court might it be tested ?

LIVE 17.31 ----- ZO, it’s all in the context of … our ' sovereign enemy ' the ECJ !

” Dominic Raab, who resigned as Brexit secretary over the deal, says that taking a legal case against the backstop to the ECJ could take 10 years. Cox says the 10-year estimate is “probably far too long”.

But well before that the pressures leading to the court case would also be affecting member states, who would minded to end the backstop. “
-------------------------------------------

You've got to love a QC (FFS) saying the case MAY not last ten years ??? :-)
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

@frog

Legal advice means nothing but everything. It's politics that matters.

Surely in the end the legal system is one expression of our political will. If something is illegal it makes us think about it politically.
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by frog222 »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@frog

Legal advice means nothing but everything. It's politics that matters.

Surely in the end the legal system is one expression of our political will. If something is illegal it makes us think about it politically.
EXACTLY .... my friend . We are all surrounded by so mluch bullshit!
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 3rd December 2018

Post by adam »

PorFavor wrote:Guess what question is the right one to ask Geoffrey Cox! If you guess correctly, he undertakes to answer it honestly. Have I got that right?
My first question is 'What does it say on Page 1?'
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