Thursday 6th December 2018

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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:Corbyn was completely correct and being responsible on his questions outwith Brexit IMHO.
Of course he was, even some who originally objected are now admitting as much.
I wholeheartedly agree
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

ITV has withdrawn plans for a Brexit debate on Sunday night, meaning there is now little chance of a televised head-to-head encounter between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May before next week’s crucial vote.

In what might turn out to be one of the most pointless and tortuous stories of the Brexit process, the broadcaster abandoned its planned debate over the prime minister’s withdrawal deal despite two weeks of behind-the-scenes negotiations after Downing Street refused to sign up to its proposed head-to-head format (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-debate
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Willow904 »

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Laura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
Govt sources suggest that they will come behind this amendment - so this IS Number 10’s hoped for backstop compromise - will any rebels budge ?
Except the amendment appears to change the withdrawal agreement from something agreed with the EU - permanent backstop - to something not agreed with the EU - temporary backstop. A withdrawal non-agreement if you will. Isn't this the same as rejecting the agreement, or am I missing something?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Well, this is really sad news...
Tracey Thorn

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Oh God but I loved Buzzcocks. And Pete Shelley was an amazing songwriter. "But after all life's only death's recompense." RIP ♥️♥️ pic.twitter.com/vAAg7Jui52
I know everybody goes for "Ever fallen In love..." but this is my favourite of the post-Devoto Buzzcocks.

[youtube]HfkMDqijvVs[/youtube]

RIP Pete
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Willow904 wrote:Except the amendment appears to change the withdrawal agreement from something agreed with the EU - permanent backstop - to something not agreed with the EU - temporary backstop. A withdrawal non-agreement if you will. Isn't this the same as rejecting the agreement, or am I missing something?
I understand your confusion as it just reads as gibberish word salad to me. The simple fact these fantasists don't seem to be able to get through their robust craniums is that the EU has already signed the withdrawal agreement. It's done. I've heard 3 EU politicians from different countries talk about this today and they each said exactly the same thing, there is going to be no further negotiation on withdrawal, we either leave on its terms and begin trade negotiations, we extend the article 50 deadline and have a second referendum (which each said they'd be happy to do) or we crash out. Those are our options as far as the EU is concerned.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Hello all.
Just dropping in. Haven't forgotten anyone, but things got a bit distracting for a while.
Hope to be back in the NY.
Regards
TC
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Hello all.
Just dropping in. Haven't forgotten anyone, but things got a bit distracting for a while.
Hope to be back in the NY.
Regards
TC
Good to see you
:rock:
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

I wrote to my Labour MP earlier in the week, soberly and politely I may add, explaining my disappointment that it was reported in a shadow cabinet meeting he'd objected to the idea of a second referendum. Amongst other things I reminded him that a large majority of Labour members, voters and his own constituents wished to remain in the EU and that I regarded him to be doing them (and me) a disservice.

Later that evening he made an appearance on Newsnight giving the impression that every time he had to answer a question someone pulled a string in his back and empty vacuous slogans came out which caused me to wish I'd waited, drunk a bottle of wine, then told him what I really thought.

It wouldn't have done much good but then neither will my polite email and at least I'd have had a measure of satisfaction.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Another thing to remember about the Irish backstop is that Theresa May signed a commitment last year that there would be no hard border in Ireland. Almost everybody went 'Phew, well that means regulatory alignment, not leaving the customs union, we can move on from here' before David Davis in his infinite wisdom pissed on everyones chips and claimed it was only a 'statement of intent' making the UK look like it was immediately backsliding. So it's little wonder the EU don't trust us and require a legal guarantee we won't try backsliding out of the backstop included in the withdrawal agreement.

Anyhoo, off to watch QT so you don't have to.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Thank you, Sky
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Another thing to remember about the Irish backstop is that Theresa May signed a commitment last year that there would be no hard border in Ireland. Almost everybody went 'Phew, well that means regulatory alignment, not leaving the customs union, we can move on from here' before David Davis in his infinite wisdom pissed on everyones chips and claimed it was only a 'statement of intent' making the UK look like it was immediately backsliding. So it's little wonder the EU don't trust us and require a legal guarantee we won't try backsliding out of the backstop included in the withdrawal agreement.

Anyhoo, off to watch QT so you don't have to.
With Charles Moore on there, I'm pretty bloody pleased about that...
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Question Time report.

Tonight we were in Bishop’s Stortford in Hertfordshire, a town which apparently voted Brexit by 622 votes. Most of whom seemed to be in the audience, one particular gammon had the angriest look on his face I think I've ever seen, worse than one my dad had the time I set the kitchen on fire while attempting to make a flamethrower...*

For Labour we had Shami Chakrabarti. I have a lot of time for Shami and got pretty annoyed tonight when Dimbleby, apparently thoughtlessly, kept cutting her off and going to other people before she'd had a chance to really say very much and you could see she was getting justifiably frustrated. When she did have a chance to speak she stuck to the Labour line about brexit and what could happen next and came out with a forcible warning against a second referendum. Despite the fact I didn't think she believed what she was saying for a second she made her case well enough and a question on climate change allowed her to go back to being the Shami I remember from before she joined the Labour party. An honest campaigner speaking from the heart.

For the batshit insane we had Charles Moore. Charles thinks everything's a conspiracy against brexit, including parliament, the civil service, the BBC, probably even his own shoes. He also seems to think climate change is a conspiracy to make poor people pay more tax on their fuel. Not that he gives much of a shit about poor people while he's fumbling in his pants raising a limp tumescence to his goddess Thatcher. The brexiter denizens of Bishop’s Stortford seemed to rather like him so make of that what you will if you're ever considering a Hertfordshire holiday.

For the Tories we had James Brokenshire. James thinks everything about May's withdrawal agreement is brilliant. It's the bestest deal ever. And Theresa May is a patriotic hero who has never considered anything but all of our best interests. In fact it turns out according to him that Theresa May picked up a sword and fought Michael Barnier in single combat over the withdrawal agreement and it was only when Barnier collapsed, covered in wounds pleading for mercy, that May gained this great victory for the UK that just happened to accede to all the EU's demands.

For the SNP we had Ian Blackford. Ian did a sterling job putting the case forward for not leaving the EU at all. I have a great deal of respect for the SNP position on Brexit. It would be in their best electoral interests to just sit back and let brexit happen in the worst chaotic manner possible as this would only increase their chances of a successful bid for Scottish independence. But instead they're the only major party in the UK who have the balls to stand up to the vile anti EU-immigrant rhetoric that has so shamefully permeated English politics. They're not looking at this from the standpoint of electoral gain but from what benefits Scotland as a whole and so indirectly and ironically England as a whole. It was Labour taking Scotland for granted that opened the door to the SNP's success, and it'll be Labour taking English remain voters for granted that'll open the door to whatever comes next.

And finally we had Jill Rutter. Jill is from the 'Institute for Government' think tank. And for once someone from a think tank seemed to be genuinely impartial. She was well informed, spelled out what would happen under various brexit scenarios and gave an honest appraisal of how she thought this government and May had performed (it wasn't flattering) while seeming to be amused by everything. I liked Jill.


*A rather crude affair involving a bicycle pump and petrol.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Thursday 6th December 2018

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

As an addendum there was a young woman in the audience who said Theresa May was punished by the electorate at the last election for playing politics with brexit and if Labour succeeded in somehow forcing one now exactly the same thing would happen to them.

I happen to agree with her, Shami Chakrabarti told us to be careful what we wished for in the case of a second referendum, but my response would be we have majority support for a second vote in poll after poll after poll, whereas the idea of having another general election is about as popular as genital warts.
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