FlyTheNest

Morning all.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... c-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Younger adults are far less keen than older people on raising taxes to fund public services and want volunteers to help ease the growing crisis in social care, a survey shows.

Bit difficult to square with how people actually vote! I presume Tory voting older people want some one else to pay more tax to invest in the NHS (does tie in with the Brexit vote and willingness to believe the nonsense we were spending £350m on others within the EU that we could spend instead on the NHS with no negative impacts for anywhere in the UK). Meanwhile it's not clear younger people are against tax rises per se, they just have tackling climate change as a top priority, understandably given the impact it will have on them. I'm not entirely convinced this means younger people would actively oppose higher taxes to invest in the NHS by switching their vote to the tax cutting Tories. Certainly not while the Tories continue to go "all out for gas"!

Yes, the headline simplifies a much more complex reality. But we should be used to that by now

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, the headline simplifies a much more complex reality. But we should be used to that by now

It's an interesting survey. I suspect the younger people are on the right track. A cleaner environment could equal better health. Reducing emissions from cars, for instance, could seriously reduce the number of hospital admissions for asthma. I'm less sure about using volunteers for social care, mind, but that may come from younger people having less direct experience of the issues involved. Generally though, seeing the NHS as a part of a wider, more holistic approach to health and welfare rather than an ever more expensive sticking plaster for all the negative consequences of an unsupported and stressed society is definitely a better approach.

Should be no volunteers in social care,even trained professionals sometimes missed slip into hypoglycaemia.You very rarely get a reasonable representation of what social care actually is beyond the holding of a wrinkly hand.

Good morfternoon.

Christopher Grayling may back 'flawed' TransPennine rail upgrade

Exclusive: sources say DfT committee recommends delay-plagued route should not be fully electrified
(Guardian)

Christopher Grayling? Why so formal all of a sudden? Either they've decided not to be so pally or they're trying to up the respect quotient.

As for his (possible\probable) decision . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... il-upgrade

HindleA wrote:Should be no volunteers in social care,even trained professionals sometimes missed slip into hypoglycaemia.You very rarely get a reasonable representation of what social care actually is beyond the holding of a wrinkly hand.

Very well put.

Thanks.My annual attempt at possible sense.

Back to business

Constance contemplating a visit to the chemists or the putting on wellies given time of year.

"oh no she isn't"

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, the headline simplifies a much more complex reality. But we should be used to that by now

https://www.thersa.org/discover/publica ... illennials#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Selfish millennials?"

Far from underpinning caricatures of millennials our survey, therefore, could well be yet another canary in the generational inequality coalmine. This is why in our recent Foundations for a 21stCentury Enlightenment and this week’s prospectus on People, Place and Power, we have called for a national dialogue on increasing spending, alongside a new social settlement to support all in and out of work, and a Universal Basic Income. To pull the shell of the universal welfare state down further or to attempt to concentrate benefits would be wrong turns. All may not be lost with millennials after all – far from it.

HindleA wrote:Should be no volunteers in social care,even trained professionals sometimes missed slip into hypoglycaemia.You very rarely get a reasonable representation of what social care actually is beyond the holding of a wrinkly hand.

Agreed

Good-afternoon, everyone

Yet another UKIP MEP jumps ship, that is two thirds of them gone now?

SummerAutumn Social Care Green Paper,January at earliest.

HindleA wrote:Should be no volunteers in social care,even trained professionals sometimes missed slip into hypoglycaemia.You very rarely get a reasonable representation of what social care actually is beyond the holding of a wrinkly hand.

Anecdote time -

When I worked as a carer, we weren't given information on what conditions people were suffering from as the information was "confidential".

One example: I was (last minute) drafted in to provide "services" to a woman I'd never before met. She seemed ok-ish in a general sort of way and, when I asked if she needed anything over and above my duties - food for example (although not much time available in a 15 minute appointment), she told me that her husband did a lot of stuff for her and would be home soon. So I did my thing and went merrily on my way. When I had occasion to go back to her home (yet another stop-gap), she asked me to get something from her bedroom. The bedroom was a shrine to her obviously long-dead husband - suits, hats, and all. The woman had some form of Alzheimer's. And yet I wasn't allowed to know?

I'm getting more squirrels.

PorFavor wrote:

HindleA wrote:Should be no volunteers in social care,even trained professionals sometimes missed slip into hypoglycaemia.You very rarely get a reasonable representation of what social care actually is beyond the holding of a wrinkly hand.

Anecdote time -
When I worked as a carer, we weren't given information on what conditions people were suffering from as the information was "confidential".
One example: I was (last minute) drafted in to provide "services" to a woman I'd never before met. She seemed ok-ish in a general sort of way and, when I asked if she needed anything over and above my duties - food for example (although not much time available in a 15 minute appointment), she told me that her husband did a lot of stuff for her and would be home soon. So I did my thing and went merrily on my way. When I had occasion to go back to her home (yet another stop-gap), she asked me to get something from her bedroom. The bedroom was a shrine to her obviously long-dead husband - suits, hats, and all. The woman had some form of Alzheimer's. And yet I wasn't allowed to know?

Thanks very much for that anecdote . It exemplifies so well the profound weakness of so many so-called "" Rules-based systems"" .

On R4 earlier today a perfectly sane man dying from MND was denied his own decision to die when he chose, because .... bla bla bla .

Obvious stupid management misinterpretation about confidentiality,you needed to know ,you don't divulge.The service user,client,person agrees (or representative) to receive on that basis ie need to know

Because it puts others at risk, State sanctioned killing is not a good idea,there are no adequate safeguards,where assisted dying has been introduced it's encompassment is spreading.I have no religious faith,I realise contentious but humbly suggest not as simple as portrayed and having seen close up in working and personal experience the sane can be easily persuaded/pressurised-don't underestimate the relentless burdensome narrative.

HindleA wrote:Obvious stupid management misinterpretation about confidentiality,you needed to know ,you don't divulge.The service user,client,person agrees (or representative) to receive on that basis ie need to know

Well, I'd agree with you - but whenever I tried to raise the issue, it became apparent that the policy was applied nationally by one of the biggest private care outfits in the country (or at least it was at the time).

HindleA wrote:Because it puts others at risk, State sanctioned killing is not a good idea,there are no adequate safeguards,where assisted dying has been introduced it's encompassment is spreading.I have no religious faith,I realise contentious but humbly suggest not as simple as portrayed and having seen close up in working and personal experience the sane can be easily persuaded/pressurised-don't underestimate the relentless burdensome narrative.

All I can say to that is - when faced with a choice to go before your time while still fit enough (and rich enough) to travel . . . .

Devaluing on all levels has such consequences,as a public employee such information was necessary before entry (or should have been)

Well we were top for five minutes.

https://inews.co.uk/news/christmas-appe ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worth a repeat.

https://socialcarefuture.blog/2018/06/2 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour: we'll restore right to strike in support of overseas workers

John McDonnell says party would abolish Thatcher-era laws undermining right to take ‘sympathy action’
(Guardian)

Good man!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... unterparts

Unlike David Cameron who gave us both Fixed Term Parliaments and a Referendum.

Ah, have just been made aware of a Freedland classic today - in particular, if "we" lose a second referendum that hasn't even been announced yet it will be the fault of (who else?) Corbyn. Thankfully, the latest blog piece by Phil BC is a good rebuttal to this nonsense.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah, have just been made aware of a Freedland classic today - in particular, if "we" lose a second referendum that hasn't even been announced yet it will be the fault of (who else?) Corbyn. Thankfully, the latest blog piece by Phil BC is a good rebuttal to this nonsense.

Link for those interested: https://averypublicsociologist.blogspot ... ssity.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Attacks on Corbyn are in full flow again.

As I've said before, I'm not a natural Corbyn supporter, but I end up wanting to defend him against the lies and misrepresentation. So the bile is in my case counterproductive.

He didn't score the last gasp winner for Norwich?

Causing the Irish potato famine wasn't his best moment,to be fair.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah, have just been made aware of a Freedland classic today - in particular, if "we" lose a second referendum that hasn't even been announced yet it will be the fault of (who else?) Corbyn. Thankfully, the latest blog piece by Phil BC is a good rebuttal to this nonsense.

" One has has just been made aware "

sounds like an awful parody, but it's only the inimitably negative and deeply unpleasant (three strikes to me) AK in action .
As usual he does not deign to sully his lillywhite fingers by posting a link to the article which he has of course NOT READ ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also have never had that much time for Freedland , but surely no-one here can deny that the LP is the party of constructive ambiguity ? --

"" Not that you’d know it from the noises the party is still making. Take the article in the Guardian on Friday by Corbyn himself. It spoke repeatedly of Labour’s “alternative plan” for Brexit, by which Britain would have all the benefits of the single market – such as “frictionless trade” – with none of the unwanted costs. This is a plan in the same sense that I “plan” to win the men’s singles title at Wimbledon next year. It is not a plan at all, but a desire for something that is demonstrably out of reach""

After twenty plus years on different interweb forums on all sorts of subjects from craft cider-making to ride-on mowers and vintage tractors to politics I've met a huge quantity of decent folks , and a very few 100% absolute shits .

Anatoly Kasparov -- that is looking at you.

Meaningful vote to be delayed

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah, have just been made aware of a Freedland classic today - in particular, if "we" lose a second referendum that hasn't even been announced yet it will be the fault of (who else?) Corbyn. Thankfully, the latest blog piece by Phil BC is a good rebuttal to this nonsense.

" One has has just been made aware "

sounds like an awful parody, but it's only the inimitably negative and deeply unpleasant (three strikes to me) AK in action .
As usual he does not deign to sully his lillywhite fingers by posting a link to the article which he has of course NOT READ ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also have never had that much time for Freedland , but surely no-one here can deny that the LP is the party of constructive ambiguity ? --

"" Not that you’d know it from the noises the party is still making. Take the article in the Guardian on Friday by Corbyn himself. It spoke repeatedly of Labour’s “alternative plan” for Brexit, by which Britain would have all the benefits of the single market – such as “frictionless trade” – with none of the unwanted costs. This is a plan in the same sense that I “plan” to win the men’s singles title at Wimbledon next year. It is not a plan at all, but a desire for something that is demonstrably out of reach""

After twenty plus years on different interweb forums on all sorts of subjects from craft cider-making to ride-on mowers and vintage tractors to politics I've met a huge quantity of decent folks , and a very few 100% absolute shits .

Anatoly Kasparov -- that is looking at you.

Erm Frog would you like to reconsider this post?

If we want to discuss whether folk should or shouldn't include links it's easily done in a calm manner.

Meh, people like Freedland have been lying about Corbyn since day one.

If you find that truth difficult to handle, there are always other places you can post.

Just one other thing - one of the few ways in which opposition is better than government is that it is much easier to deploy "constructive ambiguity" effectively. Why should UK Labour have to give up a standard tool in the armoury of opposing an administration?

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Meaningful vote to be delayed

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing like a bit of certainty . . .

PorFavor wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Meaningful vote to be delayed

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing like a bit of certainty . . .

I'm reading on Twitter that the MV is still scheduled for Tuesday but if an amendment succeeds that could be an excuse to delay it.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its just Labour being "the most useless opposition in history" again

I'm watching the Press Preview on Sky News. The Mail on Sunday's headline is -

May:Back Me Or Get Corbyn and No Brexit.

Seems that all this has lost even the pretence of being about the national interest.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

frog222 wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah, have just been made aware of a Freedland classic today - in particular, if "we" lose a second referendum that hasn't even been announced yet it will be the fault of (who else?) Corbyn. Thankfully, the latest blog piece by Phil BC is a good rebuttal to this nonsense.

" One has has just been made aware "

sounds like an awful parody, but it's only the inimitably negative and deeply unpleasant (three strikes to me) AK in action .
As usual he does not deign to sully his lillywhite fingers by posting a link to the article which he has of course NOT READ ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also have never had that much time for Freedland , but surely no-one here can deny that the LP is the party of constructive ambiguity ? --

"" Not that you’d know it from the noises the party is still making. Take the article in the Guardian on Friday by Corbyn himself. It spoke repeatedly of Labour’s “alternative plan” for Brexit, by which Britain would have all the benefits of the single market – such as “frictionless trade” – with none of the unwanted costs. This is a plan in the same sense that I “plan” to win the men’s singles title at Wimbledon next year. It is not a plan at all, but a desire for something that is demonstrably out of reach""

After twenty plus years on different interweb forums on all sorts of subjects from craft cider-making to ride-on mowers and vintage tractors to politics I've met a huge quantity of decent folks , and a very few 100% absolute shits .

Anatoly Kasparov -- that is looking at you.

Erm Frog would you like to reconsider this post?

If we want to discuss whether folk should or shouldn't include links it's easily done in a calm manner.

Which is exactly what your dear friend Anatoly did not do ! To me .

frog222 wrote:Which is exactly what your dear friend Anatoly did not do ! To me .

Where?

Frog we can't cope with ad hominem attacks here. We are not a moderated board as such. We have managed to discuss how to post in the past quite successfully.

If you have a problem with me please DM me and I'll respond. If you want to discuss how we should include links in posts please go ahead, but without the personal comments please.

So the US arm of Spiked received a donation from the hard right Charles Koch Foundation?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... foundation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why does that not surprise me?

I always think it kinda weird that an organisation so pro-free speech have writers that all seem to have exactly the same opinions on every subject.

Good morfternoon.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/pensioner-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor wrote:I'm watching the Press Preview on Sky News. The Mail on Sunday's headline is -

May:Back Me Or Get Corbyn and No Brexit.

Seems that all this has lost even the pretence of being about the national interest.

James Felton
‏
Verified account

@JimMFelton
3h3 hours ago
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Rarely seen “eat your vegetables or we’re buying a puppy and going to Disneyland” parenting tactic there

Latest Wren-Lewis.
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leave voters wanted more control over events and a better life. That is what they were promised. That combination is just not possible by leaving the EU.

Boris Johnson on Marr appearing to stick to the nonsensical line that we can get a Canada type deal without a border in either the Irish Sea or Ireland.

Marr asks why then did he approve the outline of Mays's deal last December when still in the cabinet. Because it was supposed to be provisional, he says. Only it's still privisional, as Marr points out, but completely fails to pin him down on why he's talking as if the backstop will definitely happen, when his unicorn solution is surely still achievable under May's withdrawal agreement.

Pfft.

PTO