Monday 10th December 2018

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refitman
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Monday 10th December 2018

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ect-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -in-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mayor Sadiq Khan to look at imposing rent controls in London
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by Willow904 »

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... mg00000001" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Britain Can Decide On Its Own To Reverse Brexit Decision, ECJ Rules
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by Willow904 »

Doesn't really help Theresa May with remain supporting MPs, but might give Brexiter rebels pause for thought.
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tinybgoat
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

'Hedge funds make big bets against post-Brexit UK economy'

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... uk-economy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.

So, if May loses the vote heavily tomorrow will she have the courage to say "Right, since we cannot agree how this Brexit is to be achieved, I'm going to revoke Article 50 until such time we do. And we're going to have a Royal Commission set up inside a month with legal, constitutional, and economic experts to report back to parliament within, say 6 months to give us the options"?

That might just save her job IMO.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

So, if May loses the vote heavily tomorrow will she have the courage to say "Right, since we cannot agree how this Brexit is to be achieved, I'm going to revoke Article 50 until such time we do. And we're going to have a Royal Commission set up inside a month with legal, constitutional, and economic experts to report back to parliament within, say 6 months to give us the options"?

That might just save her job IMO.
Which is why she won't get support from her Tory colleagues!!!
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

According to the Telegraph, May's Plan B is a second referendum...but without a Remain option.

I somehow doubt that would get parliamentary approval.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by gilsey »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

So, if May loses the vote heavily tomorrow will she have the courage to say "Right, since we cannot agree how this Brexit is to be achieved, I'm going to revoke Article 50 until such time we do. And we're going to have a Royal Commission set up inside a month with legal, constitutional, and economic experts to report back to parliament within, say 6 months to give us the options"?

That might just save her job IMO.
A Royal Commission to tell us what we already know?
Economic stability and the GFA require us to stay in the EU, there's no squaring that circle.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -in-london

Mayor Sadiq Khan to look at imposing rent controls in London
But......a former inhabitant of this parish assured us that they NEVER work!
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by gilsey »

Oscar D Torson


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So far I implicitly assumed that the EU does not mind if the UK remains in the EU despite almost certainly being a big PITA for a decade if Remain is achieved by emergency withdrawal of A50

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Oscar D Torson


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If this is not the case we get into the interesting situation where the UK could negotiate along the lines of “change the WA OR ELSE WE REMAIN” which would be funny, I guess.


" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Cabinet ministers 'on standby for emergency conference call with PM' (Politics Live, Guardian)
Speculation that this presages a delay to the vote.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Now being reported by multiple sources that tomorrow night's vote has been pulled.

Shambles doesn't really begin to cover it tbh.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

That would be pretty funny if it was delayed given this earlier...
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Michael Gove says the meaningful vote is “100%” going ahead. #R4Today
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Less than an hour ago, a Number 10 spokesperson said it was "definitely" going ahead.

So........what has happened??
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Maybe May's phoning other EU leaders didn't get the expected or required response.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

So this is Plan B-?


Edited - typo
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 10 Dec, 2018 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Labour Whips

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Breaking: The Prime Minister will be making an oral statement today at 330pm titled “Exiting the European Union”.

4:04 AM - 10 Dec 2018
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

[youtube]MlrsqGal64w[/youtube]
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Maybe May's phoning other EU leaders didn't get the expected or required response.
What, "unexpectedly", you mean?
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

1m ago 12:25
European commission says it will not renegotiate withdrawal agreement (Politics Live, Gardian)


Edited to add -

Or, as someone once said, "Nothing has changed."
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 10 Dec, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Three statements this afternoon apparently - May, Leadsom, and Barclay on Article 50.

I'm assuming the last doesn't just says "This doesn't change anything"...
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Now being reported by multiple sources that tomorrow night's vote has been pulled.

Shambles doesn't really begin to cover it tbh.
Not really the best advert for "taking back our sovereignty", is it? I mean, if we take it as a dry run, it's been a bit of an embarrassing failure, hasn't it?
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

19m ago 12:36
Corbyn says postponement of Brexit vote shows UK no longer has functioning government (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Isn't Theresa May worried that this arsing about might cause the civil unrest that keeps being alluded to?
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by GetYou »

Has someone got in touch with The Guinness Book of Records yet?

Longest can kick, Theresa May, December 2018*

*ongoing, record could be extended
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

PorFavor wrote:Isn't Theresa May worried that this arsing about might cause the civil unrest that keeps being alluded to?
They shouldn't leave it to late, there's only 14.4 civil unrest days until Xmas.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

As an aside - is Jeremy Hunt earlier saying that the revoking of Article 50 possibility "is irrelevant" his way of dismissing 48% of the electorate as "irrelevant"? Hardly a diplomatic statement from someone who is a Secretary of State in a government which claims to want to heal rifts.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by adam »

PorFavor wrote:As an aside - is Jeremy Hunt earlier saying that the revoking of Article 50 possibility "is irrelevant" his way of dismissing 48% of the electorate as "irrelevant"? Hardly a diplomatic statement from someone who is a Secretary of State in a government which claims to want to heal rifts.
I hesitate in a big way to come to their defense, but I do see the argument the government are making when they say 'it doesn't matter whether A50 can be revoked or not because we're not going to'. That, in itself, seems a perfectly logical argument to me. It gets in the way of people who have been saying 'you won't be able to revoke A50, we're stuck with it' (which has been part of the argument) and it doesn't help the government with the very long list of other problems they have (generally of their own making) but I think they're being at least reasonably consistent with this one.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:As an aside - is Jeremy Hunt earlier saying that the revoking of Article 50 possibility "is irrelevant" his way of dismissing 48% of the electorate as "irrelevant"? Hardly a diplomatic statement from someone who is a Secretary of State in a government which claims to want to heal rifts.
I hesitate in a big way to come to their defense, but I do see the argument the government are making when they say 'it doesn't matter whether A50 can be revoked or not because we're not going to'. That, in itself, seems a perfectly logical argument to me. It gets in the way of people who have been saying 'you won't be able to revoke A50, we're stuck with it' (which has been part of the argument) and it doesn't help the government with the very long list of other problems they have (generally of their own making) but I think they're being at least reasonably consistent with this one.

You have a point - but it wasn't presented at all well by Jeremy Hunt. As I said, very dismissive. Offhanded, even, in a "yah boo sucks" sort of way.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by adam »

PorFavor wrote:
adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:As an aside - is Jeremy Hunt earlier saying that the revoking of Article 50 possibility "is irrelevant" his way of dismissing 48% of the electorate as "irrelevant"? Hardly a diplomatic statement from someone who is a Secretary of State in a government which claims to want to heal rifts.
I hesitate in a big way to come to their defense, but I do see the argument the government are making when they say 'it doesn't matter whether A50 can be revoked or not because we're not going to'. That, in itself, seems a perfectly logical argument to me. It gets in the way of people who have been saying 'you won't be able to revoke A50, we're stuck with it' (which has been part of the argument) and it doesn't help the government with the very long list of other problems they have (generally of their own making) but I think they're being at least reasonably consistent with this one.

You have a point - but it wasn't presented at all well by Jeremy Hunt. As I said, very dismissive. Offhanded, even, in a "yah boo sucks" sort of way.
Yes, absolutely. Something the I think the government have been quietly saying is 'we never doubted that this was the case' and I don't think they made any argument against it in the ECJ case - they might have been better off saying that than saying, as you say, that half the population's concerns are irrelevant.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Sky TV news keeps saying that Theresa May will be coming "live" from the Commons at 3.30pm. Half-live at best, politically speaking, surely?
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Guy Verhofstadt

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I can’t follow anymore. After two years of negotiations, the Tory government wants to delay the vote. Just keep in mind that we will never let the Irish down. This delay will further aggravate the uncertainty for people & businesses. It’s time they make up their mind! #brexit (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by adam »

She should have had this confrontation with her party when she was elected leader - or should have made clear what was feasible before she was elected leader, although that might have led to Leadsome and no deal. Verhofstadt has it right
I can’t follow anymore. After two years of negotiations, the Tory government wants to delay the vote. Just keep in mind that we will never let the Irish down. This delay will further aggravate the uncertainty for people & businesses. It’s time they make up their mind!
I still believe in a town called Hope
PorFavor
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

adam wrote:She should have had this confrontation with her party when she was elected leader - or should have made clear what was feasible before she was elected leader, although that might have led to Leadsome and no deal. Verhofstadt has it right
I can’t follow anymore. After two years of negotiations, the Tory government wants to delay the vote. Just keep in mind that we will never let the Irish down. This delay will further aggravate the uncertainty for people & businesses. It’s time they make up their mind!

Interesting that he writes "the Tory government" and not "the UK government". Or not?
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by adam »

If our policy is...

1. We won't agree to NI staying within the SM/CU (as we agreed in the December 2017 agreement)
2. We won't agree to the whole of the UK staying within the SM/CU
3. We can't present any other realistic proposals of how to settle this

... then isn't our policy a rather appropriately Northern Irish 'NEVER!'?
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adam
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by adam »

Bercow suggesting to the government that they're not actually in charge of parliament.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

John Bercow puts Theresa May on the spot!
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

adam wrote:Bercow suggesting to the government that they're not actually in charge of parliament.
Whoops!
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Unfortunately not able to watch the proceedings right now, but apparently MPs on both sides of the house are openly laughing at the PM.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

David Lidington seems to have a slight facial tic that I've not noticed before today.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by tinybgoat »

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ted-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'Foreign Office investigates reports that state-funded body targeted Corbyn'
The Institute for Statecraft, based in Fife, received hundreds of thousands of pounds in Foreign Office money.
According to the Sunday Mail , leaked documents show it tried to promote tweets calling the Labour leader a “useful idiot” who helped the Kremlin cause, and attacked members of his staff.
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Isn't Theresa May worried that this arsing about might cause the civil unrest that keeps being alluded to?
They shouldn't leave it to late, there's only 14.4 civil unrest days until Xmas.
:lol:
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

Good-evening, everyone
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by citizenJA »

I did a bit of holiday shopping and left the news alone for a day or two
Interesting developments
I like Guy Verhofstadt's sensible words
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

Donald Tusk (@eucopresident)

I have decided to call #EUCO on #Brexit (Art. 50) on Thursday. We will not renegotiate the deal, including the backstop, but we are ready to discuss how to facilitate UK ratification. As time is running out, we will also discuss our preparedness for a no-deal scenario. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Inner kindness surprisingly reveals MP quoting Margaret Thatcher (6,7).
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Re: Monday 10th December 2018

Post by PorFavor »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Inner kindness surprisingly reveals MP quoting Margaret Thatcher (6,7).
I think I may have mentioned before that I'm not his biggest fan. I thought he was terrible today.

Edited to add -

PTO
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 10 Dec, 2018 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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