Saturday 22nd & Sunday 23rd December 2018

[HindleA]

Even more now,since one of us has prematurely departed.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I could have been decamped into an institution at the taxpayers expense,thankfully my parents wouldn't countenance it.

Try having an actual mental illness, with a parent who not only refuses to understand but is hostile to the very notion of it. While the woman who was his wife no longer exists as anything other than a drugged up simpleton who needs constant care due to Alzheimer's.

My dad thinks there's nothing wrong with me, just 'nerves' or some such shit that I can combat by being more manly and tossing fucking cabers or drinking copious amounts of whisky (which I hate). He refuses to accept what I tell him. Despite the fact he has all the evidence he needs in the form of his wife and my mother that the human brain is quite capable of being fucked up.

So I guess what I'm saying Hindle is that good for you, your parents seem like good people (and interesting) from our brief encounters, but not everyone is as lucky as you.

Which, to be fair, appears to have been your point now that I think about it.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

[tinyclanger2]

Corbyn's stance made sense two years ago, and probably made sense six months ago, but I don't think it makes any sense at all now. I think that now it's just a different way of denying reality.

Absolutely.

There is a much simpler policy line to pursue now

a. We've voted to leave.
b. The government have completely cocked up this process and left us with a hopeless deal that nobody is happy with.
c. We reject the binary choice of May's deal or no deal
d. The only way forward is to revoke article 50 and think again about how to do this.
e. There is then a legitimate issue to consider - we think that we can negotiate a better deal than this government have been able to, but at some point we must consider, when we know what the actual deal is, whether the people think that is better than what we have now.

Indeed.

And as it appears we can arbitrarily revoke article 50 whenever we like (which seems absurd so makes total sense in this fiasco) that seems the only sensible course of action, the problem of course being both major English parties are fighting over the same set of idiots and those idiots voted brexit. I can absolutely and fully understand Labour's predicament here, they were within a few thousand votes of winning the last election, so it's those voters they are targetting. Makes total sense. But the next GE will be a different beast, especially if it's a snap election before whatever sordid denouement brexit results in. And I simply do not understand how Corbyn and his coterie don't realise that if they continue down their current suicidal cul de sac they're in for one very big and very nasty surprise.

Yes - this is what I mean about complacency. I can only imagine that in any snap election at this point, many Remain voters would simply vote for whatever party is explicitly providing Remain as an option. Whatever Labour's intention is, many may feel that that isn't on the table with Labour. As with anything, it's as much about perception as it is about reality.

[tinyclanger2]

Likewise. Also my dad's fault.

My Dad's excuse for supporting Man Utd was he was Scottish. Apparently if you're Scottish you can support your local team (which we do) and then support whatever English team you like. I just think he fancied George Best.

Whereas mine just wanted to be the future Sir Bobby.
Hair and all.

[Lost Soul]

Corbyn's stance made sense two years ago, and probably made sense six months ago, but I don't think it makes any sense at all now. I think that now it's just a different way of denying reality.

Absolutely.

There is a much simpler policy line to pursue now

a. We've voted to leave.
b. The government have completely cocked up this process and left us with a hopeless deal that nobody is happy with.
c. We reject the binary choice of May's deal or no deal
d. The only way forward is to revoke article 50 and think again about how to do this.
e. There is then a legitimate issue to consider - we think that we can negotiate a better deal than this government have been able to, but at some point we must consider, when we know what the actual deal is, whether the people think that is better than what we have now.

Indeed.

And as it appears we can arbitrarily revoke article 50 whenever we like (which seems absurd so makes total sense in this fiasco) that seems the only sensible course of action, the problem of course being both major English parties are fighting over the same set of idiots and those idiots voted brexit. I can absolutely and fully understand Labour's predicament here, they were within a few thousand votes of winning the last election, so it's those voters they are targetting. Makes total sense. But the next GE will be a different beast, especially if it's a snap election before whatever sordid denouement brexit results in. And I simply do not understand how Corbyn and his coterie don't realise that if they continue down their current suicidal cul de sac they're in for one very big and very nasty surprise.

Yes - this is what I mean about complacency. I can only imagine that in any snap election at this point, many Remain voters would simply vote for whatever party is explicitly providing Remain as an option. Whatever Labour's intention is, many may feel that that isn't on the table with Labour. As with anything, it's as much about perception as it is about reality.

Yes

'Corbyn faces furious Labour backlash over backing Brexit '

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ing-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ing-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I know this was all set off by the Tories - but to an awful lot of us, it seems that it's being 'nodded through' by what we thought was our own side...

[tinyclanger2]

A one-off, never to be revisited referendum, as in totalitarian states in the 1930s, has become an irreversible building block for a rightwing world, with the connivance of parts of the old left that hold the same conception of imagined, untrammelled national autonomy as the extreme right.

From Lost Soul's second link above

[Lost Soul]

Ah...someone else is awake !

Good morning

[Lost Soul]

Frankie Boyle’s review of 2018: 'Let's forget Brexit and enjoy our last Christmas with running water'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... get-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and my favorite:

' Theresa May dancing on stage at the Conservative Party conference , looking like an uncloaked Dementor on a hen weekend.'

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... local-area" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

Good morfternoon.

[PorFavor]

I'm sure I could find out, but I don't have the strength -

What was the Referendum voter turnout in Labour Leave constituencies? What I'm getting at is, how many of the Leave voters were actually Labour voters (ie even if every single Labour voter voted to leave is there enough of a margin - and if you don't take account of some Labour Leavers having now changed their minds).

[AnatolyKasparov]

Cardiff 1 MUtd 5

United supporter here (my dad's fault) and I have to say I never suspected Solksjaer's necromantic powers to be quite so powerful as to be able to bring an entire football team back to life.

Ah, right.

I had presumed you supported Dirty Leeds, as with another FtN regular

[PaulfromYorkshire]

There are few Leave voters and few Remain voters.

Most voters, I reckon, are "it's probably good to be linked to the EU but not like it has been" voters.

We almost never hear from them.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Cardiff 1 MUtd 5

United supporter here (my dad's fault) and I have to say I never suspected Solksjaer's necromantic powers to be quite so powerful as to be able to bring an entire football team back to life.

Ah, right.

I had presumed you supported Dirty Leeds, as with another FtN regular

More than one Leeds supporter on here!

Stunning comeback against Villa today winning from 2-0 down. Great game.

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... in-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Consultation outcome

Banning commercial third-party sales of puppies and kittens in England

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well that was a bit of a longeur, now thankfully ended

[HindleA]

Sad to see O'Brien succumb to the lazy disability scrounger rhetoric.Quite easy to retaliate without it's usage.People should step outside their immersement regular,it would quickly reveal what arseholes they are being.IMHO.

[HindleA]

How dare you call me X,you X self fulfilling endless and ultimately fruitless.

[HindleA]

By the way "Rachel" is actually an oak tree and not from Swindon.

[PorFavor]

Drug firms preparing for no-deal Brexit told to sign 'gagging orders'

Pharmaceutical organisations working with Whitehall to maintain medicine supplies in the event of a no-deal Brexit have signed 26 “gagging orders” that bar them from revealing information to the public.

Figures show that 16 drug companies and 10 trade associations have been asked to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) which prevent them from revealing any information related to contingency plans drawn up with the Department of Health and Social Care.

It means that the government has now asked at least 60 partners working on no-deal preparations across Whitehall to sign such agreements, angering transparency campaigners and MPs. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -sign-ndas

[HindleA]

I wonder what you call ascribing a series of characteristics according to a singular description?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well it would seem that Will Hutton's article in the Observer today was so bad that even The Jolyon didn't like it.

Rawnsley at least had a pretty fair go at the Tories for once.

[HindleA]

Unis deleted but became back on top (5,6)


(Pathetic,I know)

[HindleA]

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


British care company fines workers £50 for calling in sick

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Unis deleted but became back on top (5,6)


(Pathetic,I know)

Club with early lead is chaotic volta snail (5,5).

[PorFavor]

Zoe Williams (Guardian) writes -

Every cause has bedfellows who you’d rather weren’t in your bed. It would be impossible to conceive an idea as destructive and illogical as Brexit that did not number, among its opponents, a good many voices who were only in it for the status quo, for the single market and the customs union. To assume that just because Labour centrists oppose leave, the left of the party has to vacate the territory of remain is a catastrophic syllogism. Tory fellow-travellers are also inevitable; it’s only because of the collective cowardice of the Tory party that there aren’t more Anna Soubrys and Michael Heseltines fighting for remain.

Labour cannot bide its time waiting for some indeterminate future when these voices have died down. If Brexit represents the politics of decline – economic decline, dwindling international standing, insecure national identity – then remain can, and must, stand for the politics of revitalisation. It cannot do that without the full-blooded leadership of the Labour party; but nor can Labour stand for renewal and decline at the same time.

I think it's a good article which speaks much sense.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... byn-brexit

[Lost Soul]

Thanks for the link PorFavor

[PorFavor]

Thanks for the link PorFavor

Well, it is Christmas . . .

(You're welcome!)

[PorFavor]

Night night.

[tinyclanger2]

Night

[adam]

Frankie Boyle’s review of 2018: 'Let's forget Brexit and enjoy our last Christmas with running water'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... get-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and my favorite:

' Theresa May dancing on stage at the Conservative Party conference , looking like an uncloaked Dementor on a hen weekend.'

My favourite line was the one about how we probably expressed our displeasure to the Saudis by sending them a strongly worded invoice.

[adam]

Guardian editorial piece

The Guardian view on Labour’s Brexit: damage limitation not an opportunity

The opposition’s Brexit strategy has been smart politically. But it would not survive an impact with reality. ... The struggle between the winners and losers of globalisation, of which the EU is a proxy rather than a cause, is something Mr Corbyn comprehends. The concern is that he thinks he can win votes by using sophistry to convince the public of rather tall claims. But this approach is akin to a captain saying there are better ways to sink a boat.

But, for Paul (for example), there is also this...

Yet the Labour leader’s radicalism can be accommodated within the EU. Labour’s 2017 manifesto offered policies that would not be out of place in many continental nations which abide by the EU’s state aid and competition laws. The reason such a programme has not been previously implemented in the UK is not because of the EU. It is because UK governments, including Labour ones, have been ideologically opposed to them.

[tinyclanger2]

And then there's tax levels.