FlyTheNest

HindleA wrote:I could have been decamped into an institution at the taxpayers expense,thankfully my parents wouldn't countenance it.

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

adam wrote:Corbyn's stance made sense two years ago, and probably made sense six months ago, but I don't think it makes any sense at all now. I think that now it's just a different way of denying reality.

Absolutely.

adam wrote:There is a much simpler policy line to pursue now

a. We've voted to leave.
b. The government have completely cocked up this process and left us with a hopeless deal that nobody is happy with.
c. We reject the binary choice of May's deal or no deal
d. The only way forward is to revoke article 50 and think again about how to do this.
e. There is then a legitimate issue to consider - we think that we can negotiate a better deal than this government have been able to, but at some point we must consider, when we know what the actual deal is, whether the people think that is better than what we have now.

Indeed.

And as it appears we can arbitrarily revoke article 50 whenever we like (which seems absurd so makes total sense in this fiasco) that seems the only sensible course of action, the problem of course being both major English parties are fighting over the same set of idiots and those idiots voted brexit. I can absolutely and fully understand Labour's predicament here, they were within a few thousand votes of winning the last election, so it's those voters they are targetting. Makes total sense. But the next GE will be a different beast, especially if it's a snap election before whatever sordid denouement brexit results in. And I simply do not understand how Corbyn and his coterie don't realise that if they continue down their current suicidal cul de sac they're in for one very big and very nasty surprise.

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

tinyclanger2 wrote:Likewise. Also my dad's fault.

My Dad's excuse for supporting Man Utd was he was Scottish. Apparently if you're Scottish you can support your local team (which we do) and then support whatever English team you like. I just think he fancied George Best.

tinyclanger2 wrote:

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

adam wrote:Corbyn's stance made sense two years ago, and probably made sense six months ago, but I don't think it makes any sense at all now. I think that now it's just a different way of denying reality.

Absolutely.

adam wrote:There is a much simpler policy line to pursue now

a. We've voted to leave.
b. The government have completely cocked up this process and left us with a hopeless deal that nobody is happy with.
c. We reject the binary choice of May's deal or no deal
d. The only way forward is to revoke article 50 and think again about how to do this.
e. There is then a legitimate issue to consider - we think that we can negotiate a better deal than this government have been able to, but at some point we must consider, when we know what the actual deal is, whether the people think that is better than what we have now.

Indeed.

And as it appears we can arbitrarily revoke article 50 whenever we like (which seems absurd so makes total sense in this fiasco) that seems the only sensible course of action, the problem of course being both major English parties are fighting over the same set of idiots and those idiots voted brexit. I can absolutely and fully understand Labour's predicament here, they were within a few thousand votes of winning the last election, so it's those voters they are targetting. Makes total sense. But the next GE will be a different beast, especially if it's a snap election before whatever sordid denouement brexit results in. And I simply do not understand how Corbyn and his coterie don't realise that if they continue down their current suicidal cul de sac they're in for one very big and very nasty surprise.

Yes - this is what I mean about complacency. I can only imagine that in any snap election at this point, many Remain voters would simply vote for whatever party is explicitly providing Remain as an option. Whatever Labour's intention is, many may feel that that isn't on the table with Labour. As with anything, it's as much about perception as it is about reality.

A one-off, never to be revisited referendum, as in totalitarian states in the 1930s, has become an irreversible building block for a rightwing world, with the connivance of parts of the old left that hold the same conception of imagined, untrammelled national autonomy as the extreme right.

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

tinyclanger2 wrote:Cardiff 1 MUtd 5

United supporter here (my dad's fault) and I have to say I never suspected Solksjaer's necromantic powers to be quite so powerful as to be able to bring an entire football team back to life.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:

tinyclanger2 wrote:Cardiff 1 MUtd 5

United supporter here (my dad's fault) and I have to say I never suspected Solksjaer's necromantic powers to be quite so powerful as to be able to bring an entire football team back to life.

Ah, right.

I had presumed you supported Dirty Leeds, as with another FtN regular

Drug firms preparing for no-deal Brexit told to sign 'gagging orders'

Pharmaceutical organisations working with Whitehall to maintain medicine supplies in the event of a no-deal Brexit have signed 26 “gagging orders” that bar them from revealing information to the public.

Figures show that 16 drug companies and 10 trade associations have been asked to sign non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) which prevent them from revealing any information related to contingency plans drawn up with the Department of Health and Social Care.

It means that the government has now asked at least 60 partners working on no-deal preparations across Whitehall to sign such agreements, angering transparency campaigners and MPs. (Guardian)

HindleA wrote:Unis deleted but became back on top (5,6)


(Pathetic,I know)

Every cause has bedfellows who you’d rather weren’t in your bed. It would be impossible to conceive an idea as destructive and illogical as Brexit that did not number, among its opponents, a good many voices who were only in it for the status quo, for the single market and the customs union. To assume that just because Labour centrists oppose leave, the left of the party has to vacate the territory of remain is a catastrophic syllogism. Tory fellow-travellers are also inevitable; it’s only because of the collective cowardice of the Tory party that there aren’t more Anna Soubrys and Michael Heseltines fighting for remain.

Labour cannot bide its time waiting for some indeterminate future when these voices have died down. If Brexit represents the politics of decline – economic decline, dwindling international standing, insecure national identity – then remain can, and must, stand for the politics of revitalisation. It cannot do that without the full-blooded leadership of the Labour party; but nor can Labour stand for renewal and decline at the same time.

Lost Soul wrote:Thanks for the link PorFavor

Lost Soul wrote:Frankie Boyle’s review of 2018: 'Let's forget Brexit and enjoy our last Christmas with running water'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... get-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and my favorite:

' Theresa May dancing on stage at the Conservative Party conference , looking like an uncloaked Dementor on a hen weekend.'

The opposition’s Brexit strategy has been smart politically. But it would not survive an impact with reality. ... The struggle between the winners and losers of globalisation, of which the EU is a proxy rather than a cause, is something Mr Corbyn comprehends. The concern is that he thinks he can win votes by using sophistry to convince the public of rather tall claims. But this approach is akin to a captain saying there are better ways to sink a boat.

Yet the Labour leader’s radicalism can be accommodated within the EU. Labour’s 2017 manifesto offered policies that would not be out of place in many continental nations which abide by the EU’s state aid and competition laws. The reason such a programme has not been previously implemented in the UK is not because of the EU. It is because UK governments, including Labour ones, have been ideologically opposed to them.