Monday 7th January 2019
Posted: Mon 07 Jan, 2019 7:09 am
Morning all.
Like many of Johnson’s Brexit assertions, this is, even on the most generous of assessments, questionable.
Good for the soul. Or something.HindleA wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ssion=true
You don't spell it like that!AnatolyKasparov wrote:Morefternoon, even?
I stand corrected.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Pot, kettle springs to mind.Hilary Benn, the Labour chair of the Commons Brexit committee, asks Barclay to rule out a no-deal Brexit.
Barclay says it is not enough to MPs to be against something. They have to decide what they want. Referring to the letter, signed by more than 200 MPs, urging the government to rule out a no-deal Brexit, he says those MPs favour a variety of alternative options.
If the party’s committed to a Labour Brexit, that must mean that we know what one of those is – what kind of Brexit would be good for Labour and good for Britain. And if the answer’s ‘none’, there is no way the party can possibly admit it – not without going back on its endorsement of the referendum as a democratic process and all the commitments it’s made since the referendum. Heading towards March 29th denouncing the existing deal and demanding the impossible is probably as close to endorsing Remain as Labour – under any imaginable leader – can get, given the starting-point in 2016. (Which is to say, given that the Labour Party didn’t denounce the referendum and lead a campaign of abstention.)
He's a good one!gilsey wrote:Pot, kettle springs to mind.Hilary Benn, the Labour chair of the Commons Brexit committee, asks Barclay to rule out a no-deal Brexit.
Barclay says it is not enough to MPs to be against something. They have to decide what they want. Referring to the letter, signed by more than 200 MPs, urging the government to rule out a no-deal Brexit, he says those MPs favour a variety of alternative options.
What was PfY's anagram for Barclay?
That is goodgilsey wrote:Interesting read.
https://gapingsilence.wordpress.com/201 ... from-here/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;If the party’s committed to a Labour Brexit, that must mean that we know what one of those is – what kind of Brexit would be good for Labour and good for Britain. And if the answer’s ‘none’, there is no way the party can possibly admit it – not without going back on its endorsement of the referendum as a democratic process and all the commitments it’s made since the referendum. Heading towards March 29th denouncing the existing deal and demanding the impossible is probably as close to endorsing Remain as Labour – under any imaginable leader – can get, given the starting-point in 2016. (Which is to say, given that the Labour Party didn’t denounce the referendum and lead a campaign of abstention.)
I thought Barry Gardiner on Ridge got as close as anyone has to explaining this clearly.citizenJA wrote:That is goodgilsey wrote:Interesting read.
https://gapingsilence.wordpress.com/201 ... from-here/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;If the party’s committed to a Labour Brexit, that must mean that we know what one of those is – what kind of Brexit would be good for Labour and good for Britain. And if the answer’s ‘none’, there is no way the party can possibly admit it – not without going back on its endorsement of the referendum as a democratic process and all the commitments it’s made since the referendum. Heading towards March 29th denouncing the existing deal and demanding the impossible is probably as close to endorsing Remain as Labour – under any imaginable leader – can get, given the starting-point in 2016. (Which is to say, given that the Labour Party didn’t denounce the referendum and lead a campaign of abstention.)
What exactly would this "special access" be, though? The economic benefit of the single market derives from the four freedoms of movement which turn external markets into one big internal market. You can only either be inside an internal market, which means accepting the four freedoms, or trade with it from the outside. There isn't really anything else. We can get very good terms trading with the EU from the outside, I'm sure, but this is the kind of deal Theresa May appears to be pursuing. I just can't quite see what Labour are offering that is different, except they would actively pursue a customs union, whereas May would just end up in one by default because there is no other acceptable solution to the Irish Border problem. Unless Labour would be willing to commit to the single market, but nothing Corbyn has said suggests this is likely. Without long term promotion of a single market solution it will be hard for Labour to pivot to that position anyway, I would have thought. Besides which, "people's vote" has now got expectations up over somehow being able to remain in the EU, squeezing any single market, soft Brexit compromise out of the picture as far as I can tell.PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I thought Barry Gardiner on Ridge got as close as anyone has to explaining this clearly.
It's really important to keep on emphasising that May has got into her unenviable "hole" by having red lines that were irreconcilable.
One that hasn't been discussed for a while perhaps is the possibility of the UK paying for its special access, which is an impossibility for the ERG brigade.
IMHO the wiggle room is around Freedom of Movement.Willow904 wrote:What exactly would this "special access" be, though? The economic benefit of the single market derives from the four freedoms of movement which turn external markets into one big internal market. You can only either be inside an internal market, which means accepting the four freedoms, or trade with it from the outside. There isn't really anything else. We can get very good terms trading with the EU from the outside, I'm sure, but this is the kind of deal Theresa May appears to be pursuing. I just can't quite see what Labour are offering that is different, except they would actively pursue a customs union, whereas May would just end up in one by default because there is no other acceptable solution to the Irish Border problem. Unless Labour would be willing to commit to the single market, but nothing Corbyn has said suggests this is likely. Without long term promotion of a single market solution it will be hard for Labour to pivot to that position anyway, I would have thought. Besides which, "people's vote" has now got expectations up over somehow being able to remain in the EU, squeezing any single market, soft Brexit compromise out of the picture as far as I can tell.PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I thought Barry Gardiner on Ridge got as close as anyone has to explaining this clearly.
It's really important to keep on emphasising that May has got into her unenviable "hole" by having red lines that were irreconcilable.
One that hasn't been discussed for a while perhaps is the possibility of the UK paying for its special access, which is an impossibility for the ERG brigade.