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Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 5:31 pm
by refitman
Better out the party:
John Woodcock, who was elected as a Labour MP but now sits as an independent after leaving the party because of his opposition to Jeremy Corbyn and over a disciplinary case, has told the Commons he will not be voting for the motion of no-confidence in the government this evening. He said he thought Corbyn and John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, were not fit to hold high office.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 5:44 pm
by citizenJA
More than 600 low-paid care workers are this week voting on strike action in response to moves by employers to start imposing wage cuts in the row over minimum rates for sleep-in shifts caused by protracted legal wrangling and indecision in government.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -wage-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm so angry
'Indecision in government'
'
we're waiting until we're outside the EU to reintroduce slave labour... meanwhile, screw workers out of their wages...'
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 5:56 pm
by citizenJA
Keep failing, Theresa May
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 6:15 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
refitman wrote:Better out the party:
John Woodcock, who was elected as a Labour MP but now sits as an independent after leaving the party because of his opposition to Jeremy Corbyn and over a disciplinary case, has told the Commons he will not be voting for the motion of no-confidence in the government this evening. He said he thought Corbyn and John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, were not fit to hold high office.
No reason not to start the selection of a Labour candidate for Barrow post-haste, then.
(in fact, this is the sort of thing I was alluding to earlier)
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 6:59 pm
by Willow904
Tom Watson showing why he was once a popular choice as deputy leader.
Gove, meanwhile, is now reminding everyone why he isn't a popular choice for anything.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:03 pm
by citizenJA
AhBrightWings wrote:"...this pretense that all sides have equal value, and that in the name of debate we have to entertain errant, flaming, flatulent nonsense is killing us."
AhBrightWings
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:18 pm
by Willow904
306 against govt
325 for govt.
Majority of 19.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:21 pm
by refitman
Willow904 wrote:306 against govt
325 for govt.
Majority of 19.
To the surprise of no-one.
Now wait for the "this is Corbyn's fault" tweets to roll in.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:24 pm
by citizenJA
goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:25 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Willow904 wrote:306 against govt
325 for govt.
Majority of 19.
Suggests that maybe Woodcock voted with the Tories, any actual abstensions?
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:28 pm
by Willow904
Paul Mason
@paulmasonnews
Corbyn: no cross-party discussion about way forward until No Deal is removed.
7:19 PM · Jan 16, 2019 ·
?
The only way to avoid no deal is for May to find a majority for something else. Her discussing those alternatives with the opposition is her only avenue to "taking no deal off the table". Unless Corbyn is suggesting she stops the clock ticking by revoking article 50, (unlikely!) this "demand" is surely just window dressing.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:30 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Willow904 wrote:Paul Mason
@paulmasonnews
Corbyn: no cross-party discussion about way forward until No Deal is removed.
7:19 PM · Jan 16, 2019 ·
?
The only way to avoid no deal is for May to find a majority for something else. Her discussing those alternatives with the opposition is her only avenue to "taking no deal off the table". Unless Corbyn is suggesting she stops the clock ticking by revoking article 50,
(unlikely!) this "demand" is surely just window dressing.
Becoming less unlikely with each day this impasse continues, it may require a new PM (even if its a Tory one) though.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:32 pm
by refitman
Watson:
First let me say very clearly that I am not one of those people who questioned [May’s] motives.
I agree with [Tory MP Stephen Kerr] who claimed she was motivated by public duty.
I don’t doubt that she has sincerely attempted to fulfil the task given to us by the voters in the referendum.
I have no doubt that she has tried her best and given it her all. But she has failed. And I’m afraid the failure is hers. Hers alone ...
Throughout history prime ministers have tried their best and failed.
There is no disgrace in that. That’s politics.
But this prime minister has chosen one last act of defiance - not just defying the laws of politics, but defying the laws of mathematics.
It was a Disraeli who said “a majority is always better than the best repartee.” She is a prime minister without a majority for her flagship policy, with no authority and no plan B
Mr Speaker … that’s not a mere flesh wound
No one doubts her determination, which is generally an admirable quality, but misapplied it can be toxic ...
We know [May] has worked hard. But the truth is she is too set in her ways, too aloof to lead.
She lacks the imagination and agility to bring people with her.
She lacks the authority on the world stage to negotiate this deal.
Ultimately she has failed. It is not through lack of effort It is not through a lack of dedication.
And I think the country recognises that effort. In fact the country feels genuinely sorry for the prime minister.
I feel sorry for the prime minister. But she cannot confuse pity for political legitimacy, sympathy for sustainable support.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:34 pm
by Willow904
refitman wrote:Willow904 wrote:306 against govt
325 for govt.
Majority of 19.
To the surprise of no-one.
Now wait for the "this is Corbyn's fault" tweets to roll in.
Not Corbyn's fault, but it does expose his rhetoric of forcing a GE, which encouraged many Labour supporters to hold out hopes of it actually happening was always over-egged as a strategy. It was never likely to happen.
Although that's not to say they shouldn't try again if May comes back to the house in a couple of days with the exact same deal (not completely out of the question) which surely could potentially push the DUP over the edge!
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 7:39 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Well yes, there is talk she will return the bill to the HoC next week with at best a few tweaks. If so another NC vote would be fully justified.
Anyway, the next move is hers and not Labour's. Though depending on what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see cross-party efforts in the HoC to prevent no-deal take off.........
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:15 pm
by howsillyofme1
May still needs something remember - this is only another step along the path and she is faltering and staggering every one
The VoNC was never going to win and, in fact, was possibly an error because everyone knew what was going to happen but it was inevitable as it seems a lot of the people speaking loudest are being disingenuous (Lucas, Cable and the SNP to name a few as well as our old friend CU). The 2nd referendum call is similar (could it be the SNP want us to rerun the referendum so that it sets a precedence for another kind of referendum I wonder?)
Her strategy is to keep this going so that the vote is her deal vs no deal in Parliament and Labour have to abstain to prevent no deal (the SNP and LD will probably still vote against tactically so they can blame Labour).
If that is the case then what will all the Remainers who voted against the deal do - the Soubry, Grieve, Wollaston etc? We all know the answer to that don't we?
My bet is that May's deal or something close will be passed as the only way to avoid no deal - a disgraceful use of Parliament and means that she will be in control of the negotiations so we will be back here again in 2020 and 2022 because her approach cannot work! Her political agreement is for the birds.
Remember, none of this is the fault of Corbyn - he could have not done any more - unless someone can take up the challenge and tell me what
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:24 pm
by Willow904
So not window dressing, then.
It seems Corbyn is refusing to talk to May.
The deadlock continues.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:33 pm
by howsillyofme1
Willow904 wrote:So not window dressing, then.
It seems Corbyn is refusing to talk to May.
The deadlock continues.
No he is not refusing to speak to her - he wants her to remove no deal before any substantive talks. What else do you want him to go in and say?
Why do we always get the reaction 'Corbyn this and Corbyn that' - it is May that has caused this catastrophe. If she wanted an open and honest discussion that was for 2 years ago. Not now. Do you want to see him going in to talk whilst she continues to use no deal as a threat so as to keep the ERG onside which is why she is doing it?
May needs to disconnect herself from the ERG and this idea that no deal is an option. SNP and LD said the same too
May could go to the EU and say to them 'No Deal' off the table, we need some more time to get consensus so can we have an extension. The do not want 'No Deal' either so may be receptive to give an extension in good faith until up to the European elections
May could and should have done this 2 years ago but does it at the least minute, because of that Corbyn asks for something important and it all becomes his fault again
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:34 pm
by Willow904
So May could say something conciliatory along the lines of she would like to take no deal off the table by finding a consensus in parliament for a way forward but instead we get this:
However, a no-deal Brexit will not be taken off the table, despite Corbyn’s insistence it was a prerequisite for talks, he added.
The spokesman said: “The prime minister has been very clear that the British public voted to leave the European Union.
“We want to leave with a deal but she is determined to deliver on the verdict of the British public and that is to leave the EU on March 29 this year.”
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:49 pm
by PorFavor
I didn't take Willow904's post to be a criticism of Jeremy Corbyn (although I suppose it could have been one). Just a statement of fact.
Anyway - I think he's done the right thing.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:53 pm
by PorFavor
Odd that Theresa May has begun to do the Edward Heath frame-shaking laugh thing. No sense of timing.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 8:56 pm
by howsillyofme1
just a thought - if by some miracle we can get a deal through and we start negotiations - should there be a GE to decide who carries them out because it is clear the Tories as it stands now are incapable of doing it competently and we will be here again in 2 years, and 2 years after that before the next GE is due
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:05 pm
by Willow904
PorFavor wrote:I didn't take Willow904's post to be a criticism of Jeremy Corbyn (although I suppose it could have been one). Just a statement of fact.
Anyway - I think he's done the right thing.
I'm not sure if he's doing the right thing or not, but you're right, I was just relaying the latest news as to Corbyn not going to talk to May tonight that was popping up on my Twitter feed.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:08 pm
by refitman
Statement from May at 10:30.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:27 pm
by PorFavor
refitman wrote:Statement from May at 10:30.
Taking back control of our laws, our borders and our money?
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:31 pm
by howsillyofme1
Willow904 wrote:PorFavor wrote:I didn't take Willow904's post to be a criticism of Jeremy Corbyn (although I suppose it could have been one). Just a statement of fact.
Anyway - I think he's done the right thing.
I'm not sure if he's doing the right thing or not, but you're right, I was just relaying the latest news as to Corbyn not going to talk to May tonight that was popping up on my Twitter feed.
apologies
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:44 pm
by PorFavor
Although, having said that Jeremy Corbyn has done the right thing, he has gifted Theresa May a podium talking point\distraction\whipping boy.
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 9:52 pm
by PorFavor
4m ago 21:46
Southampton’s third round FA cup replay with Derby has gone to extra time, meaning that BBC1 programmers have a small dilemma on their hands.
It has now been reported - and this is unconfirmed – that May’s statement will now air on the BBC News Channel. How British. (Politics Live, Guardian)
For God's sake . . .
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 10:04 pm
by RogerOThornhill
"Overwhelmingly the British people want us to get on with delivering Brexit"
Huh?
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 10:14 pm
by RogerOThornhill
To listen to May it would easy to forget that over 100 MPs of her own party voted against her deal...mind you, certain commentators seemed to ignore that as well.
Odd that...maybe jeering at Corbyn 24/7 comes easier than having to admit that things aren't that great in your own party right now...
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 10:33 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
"I understand that to people getting on with their lives away from Westminster, the events of the past 24 hours will have been unsettling.
"Overwhelmingly the British people want us to get on with delivering Brexit and also address the other important issues they care about.
"I believe it is my duty to deliver on the British people's instruction to leave the European Union and I intend to do so."
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 10:35 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
@RoT
Snap. Overwhelmingly!
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 10:42 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:"I understand that to people getting on with their lives away from Westminster, the events of the past 24 hours will have been unsettling.
"Overwhelmingly the British people want us to get on with delivering Brexit and also address the other important issues they care about.
"I believe it is my duty to deliver on the British people's instruction to leave the European Union and I intend to do so."
So what is she actually going to *do*??
Re: Wednesday 16th January 2019
Posted: Wed 16 Jan, 2019 11:56 pm
by RogerOThornhill
This is amusing for the over-reaction...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Richard Tice
Verified account
@TiceRichard
Follow Follow @TiceRichard
More Richard Tice Retweeted Leavers of Britain
Censorship of a pro-Brexit social networking group by Facebook. Nick Clegg must provide answers.
Diddums.
It gets better...
@bowdbow #brexit
@bowdbow
1h1 hour ago
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Replying to @TiceRichard
Seriously, this must be discussed in Parliament. This is very serious interference by the remain grouos
