Saturday 26th and Sunday 27th January 2019

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 7:53 am

Morning all

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 8:48 am

Revising the Mental Capacity Act 2005 Code of Practice: Call for evidence

https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital- ... -practice/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 9:40 am

Good morning all.

Funny game football, innit?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 9:48 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Good morning all.

Funny game football, innit?

Your team played well!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 9:49 am

IMHO

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 9:52 am

Apparently Humphrys' interview of Irish Minister for European Affairs Helen McEntee was a disgrace.

It seems he suggested in all seriousness that Ireland should leave the EU with us to solve all the problems!

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 10:13 am

There were lots of people who genuinely thought that would happen.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 10:30 am

Incidentally, I don't know if any of you watch the newspaper reviews on the news channels, but serious rows about brexit between the journalists are becoming quite common.
I've never seen that with disagreements about other subjects, they usually stick to commenting on the piece in question rather than slagging each other off.

Another example today apparently.

Tom Peck
‏
Verified account

@tompeck
2h2 hours ago
More
The Queen says "seek out common ground." The Today Program is now hosting an increasingly vicious row between two newspaper columnists about what she meant.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 10:41 am

gilsey wrote:There were lots of people who genuinely thought that would happen.

Seriously?

I'm not doubting your reporting. There does seem to be shockingly low awareness of affairs on the island of Ireland I agree.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 10:48 am

In the Brexit craziness, this seems like a fitting soundtrack, written by Michel Legrand, who has just died.

[youtube]qKV9bK-CBXo[/youtube]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 12:32 pm

Tories praise Queen's common ground 'Brexit speech'

Ministers laud monarch’s calls for respect for others that were interpreted as Brexit reference
(Guardian)

Everyone agreed that not one of them was quite sure what the Quing was talking about. Wonderful.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ers-brexit

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 1:52 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:There were lots of people who genuinely thought that would happen.
Seriously?

I'm not doubting your reporting. There does seem to be shockingly low awareness of affairs on the island of Ireland I agree.

Yes, but I don't mean currently, I mean about the time of the EUref.
I agree that most people never thought about Ireland at all.

There were many who believed that other EU countries would be following us out of the door, not just Ireland.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 3:16 pm

Risible article about Rachel Riley in the Graun. Truly bottom draw stuff.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 5:07 pm

refitman wrote:Risible article about Rachel Riley in the Graun. Truly bottom draw stuff.

Haven't seen it, but I presume it paints her as a poor misunderstood martyr?

Post by **refitman** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 5:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:Risible article about Rachel Riley in the Graun. Truly bottom draw stuff.
Haven't seen it, but I presume it paints her as a poor misunderstood martyr?

And then some. Apparently she's getting security, because of abuse on Twitter. No mention of the pile-on she organised on a 16 year old. Or the car-crash interview on C4, where she used anti-Semitic tropes (as defined by the rules everyone wants).

Thinly veiled hit-piece on Corbyn and Labour.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 5:38 pm

She started off claiming that people (including Owen Jones) were expressing approval of Alan Sugar threatening to leave the country because he was Jewish.

Nothing to do with his being a totally dislikeable bellend, of course.

And it went downhill from there. It has to be said that seemingly taking the utterly odious and not infrequently libellous GnasherJew as her lodestar hasn't helped either.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 5:54 pm

Juncker tells May: permanent customs union is price for revisiting backstop

Frans Timmermans accuses Tory Brexiters of a ‘cavalier’ approach to EU peace (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... toms-union

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 7:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... risk-wales" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 8:06 pm

I'm guessing a lot of people are out carousing, and stuffing their faces with haggis . . .

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 8:33 pm

Listening to Twenty Thousands Streets Under The Sky and stuffing face with meat feast pizza-if you must know.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 26 Jan, 2019 8:40 pm

HindleA wrote:Listening to Twenty Thousands Streets Under The Sky and stuffing face with meat feast pizza-if you must know.

I actually like ham and pineapple pizza. Deliver all the brickbats you want

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:10 am

PorFavor wrote:I'm guessing a lot of people are out carousing, and stuffing their faces with haggis . . .

I took my daughter and her friend to a Hobo Johnson gig in Manchester.

I think she was probably the youngest and me the oldest in the room!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:11 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -strengths" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The academy revolution has swept England. It has left casualties in its wake
Sonia Sodha

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:14 am

Apart from Yoko Ono?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:17 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... port-alive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:41 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speech

Amanda Spielman at the 'Wonder Years' curriculum conference

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 1:11 am

Good grief, two weeks in a row. Another good article by Cohen and only a passing mention of the C-word.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -the-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 2:56 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... o-property" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The supermarket in Wales owned by a small council … in Surrey
‘Casino councils’ are spending huge sums on property across the country in a high-stakes bid to balance their books

Biggest council investors in property, 2014-15 to 2017-18

Spelthorne £654.9m*
Runnymede £356.4m
Surrey £268.3m
Kingston £163.8m
Torbay £96.8m
Newham £91.5m
Bucks £79.2m
Leeds £76.3m
Eastleigh £68.7m

An additional £285m has since been invested

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 8:31 am

HindleA wrote:Apart from Yoko Ono?

No she couldn't make it this time

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 9:16 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... conference

Speech

Amanda Spielman at the 'Wonder Years' curriculum conference

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That conference was organised by everyone's favourite definitely not a Tory-supporting front group Parents and Teachers for Excellence.

Oh, and Nick Gibb was one of the keynote speakers too...fancy that.

And held at Pimlico Academy in that London - a school in a trust run by ex-Tory edu Minister Lord Nash.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 10:27 am

refitman wrote:Good grief, two weeks in a row. Another good article by Cohen and only a passing mention of the C-word.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -the-issue" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though the overall criticism of the article - embarking on a risky and ambitious project without a proper plan - might remind you of what exactly?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 12:59 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/stage/2019/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 2:30 pm

Some folk on Twitter complaining at Angela Rayner for being incoherent on Brexit (on Ridge).

Thing is though, for me, she nails the complexity of it and is probably closer to the position of the electorate than most politicians.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-13913295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She thinks there should not be a second referendum and that it's unlikely to resolve the issue, but she would probably vote Remain if there was one.

She thinks people don't want to delay Brexit but thinks it may be inevitable that we do.

She wants no deal ruled out, May's red lines put aside and if at all possible implementation of Labour's "deal".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 2:41 pm

Yes, that's a pretty good summary of "median" public opinion on Brexit.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 6:20 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... rry-coping" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To apply for settled status, people need to use an Android app to confirm their identity using their passport, then go to the gov.uk website to provide evidence they have lived continuously in the UK for five years. Those who have an iPhone or other device, or aren’t online because they are elderly or disabled, can get help at one of 13 centres around the UK. The only one in Scotland is in Edinburgh, while anyone in Cornwall will need to make a trip to Bath. Even then, they will still need to go online to complete their application.

Our government have a truly impressive ability to use technology to make life infinitely more complicated and difficult.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 7:35 pm

Well I don’t know. If Brexit=democracy it makes me wonder about the value of it (democracy). Where does that leave me?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 7:36 pm

I suppose I struggle to find a 37% vote about something none of knew the implications of to be fundamentally undemocratic. Everything else is a technicality.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 8:32 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I suppose I struggle to find a 37% vote about something none of knew the implications of to be fundamentally undemocratic. Everything else is a technicality.

BUT

I suspect if we reran the referendum tomorrow after all this debate and all we know about the dodgy stuff the result would be the same.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 8:47 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I suppose I struggle to find a 37% vote about something none of knew the implications of to be fundamentally undemocratic. Everything else is a technicality.

Alternatively, you could describe it as the biggest vote for anything this country has seen - in numerical terms anyway.

Amongst his many omissions was Cameron not specifying some sort of "threshold" for the referendum. He was totally sure anything like that would not be needed

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 11:06 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:I suppose I struggle to find a 37% vote about something none of knew the implications of to be fundamentally undemocratic. Everything else is a technicality.
BUT

I suspect if we reran the referendum tomorrow after all this debate and all we know about the dodgy stuff the result would be the same.

Lots of people talking about being still for leaving, and telling the pollsters so, but what would they do in the privacy of the polling booth?
In 2016 they wanted to upset the political applecart and they did, job done.
Now they'd have a chance to avoid upsetting the economic one. Given it a wobble but it'd settle down.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 11:26 pm

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:I suppose I struggle to find a 37% vote about something none of knew the implications of to be fundamentally undemocratic. Everything else is a technicality.
BUT

I suspect if we reran the referendum tomorrow after all this debate and all we know about the dodgy stuff the result would be the same.
Lots of people talking about being still for leaving, and telling the pollsters so, but what would they do in the privacy of the polling booth?
In 2016 they wanted to upset the political applecart and they did, job done.
Now they'd have a chance to avoid upsetting the economic one. Given it a wobble but it'd settle down.

Hmm, that is an interesting take on things - and you could be right.

Still quite a risk though.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 11:41 pm

Got the bus home tonight chatting to a woman from Guinea Bissau. She was called Mara and came here 6 years ago and has been working in restaurants but now wants to leave.

She told me that when she first came here to work everything was fine but over last year things have got bad. She works in a place in Pudsey, which when not being the name of a bear for children in need is a backwater of Leeds, and having drunk there a few times I can back up her complaints.

She also told me someone from the Portuguese embassy had a meeting with those from Guinea Bissau in Leeds and advised them to leave the country.

So she said she was going to Brazil, which while standing freezing waiting for a 2 or 3 bus I could hardly blame her for.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 27 Jan, 2019 11:57 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: Alternatively, you could describe it as the biggest vote for anything this country has seen - in numerical terms anyway.

Well apart from all the general elections between 1922 and 1997 which had a similar 70% turnout on average.

So in reality you couldn't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:18 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Alternatively, you could describe it as the biggest vote for anything this country has seen - in numerical terms anyway.
Well apart from all the general elections between 1922 and 1997 which had a similar 70% turnout on average.

So in reality you couldn't.

Um, no particular *party* ever achieved the 17m votes that Brexit did.

I am simply stating a fact here, you can read as much or as little into it as you wish.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:21 am

Between 1922 and 1997, turnout at UK general elections remained above 71%, rising to over 80% in the general elections of 1950 and 1951.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... fullreport

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:34 am

Um, no particular *party* ever achieved the 17m votes that Brexit did.

Well no obviously as there were far fewer people in the country but we're talking percentages here and an 80% turnout is higher than a 71% turnout.

It's like saying there are more people employed in this country than ever before.

Without mentioning the fact that there are more people living here than ever before.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:38 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: So she said she was going to Brazil, which while standing freezing waiting for a 2 or 3 bus I could hardly blame her for.

Hmmm, has she missed recent developments there?

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:47 am

I made an attempt to raise such concerns but it would seem Brexit is worse than Bolsonaro if you happen to be Portuguese.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 12:50 am

And also I don't want to start an argument or anything like it with you and I hope we are cool.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 28 Jan, 2019 1:07 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
Between 1922 and 1997, turnout at UK general elections remained above 71%, rising to over 80% in the general elections of 1950 and 1951.
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... fullreport

Yes, I do know this stuff.

But as you say, no need to fall out

And, better late than never - PTO.