Monday 28th January 2019

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refitman
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Monday 28th January 2019

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

"Hindle's House"="Heretospite thetories"
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

Breakfast is a selection of Desobry Belgian biscuits .When I say selection I mean a tin.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

I feel sick ,only myself to blame.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

It was only one kg.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tudy-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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adam
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by adam »

UK corporation tax cut to cost billions more than thought
An analysis based on HMRC data suggests that the loss of revenue from the planned cuts, initiated by former chancellor George Osborne but supported by incumbent Philip Hammond, could add up to more than £6bn. HMRC recently raised its estimate for the amount a 1 percentage point increase in corporation tax could bring in for the Treasury from £2.8bn to £3.1bn per year – meaning the plan to cut taxes by 2p in the £1 could cost about £6.2bn.
Shocked etc.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

http://www.open.ac.uk/research/events/b ... %23OUtalks#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.
Big fan of the OU obviously - got me to the position where I am today.

Which to be precise is just finishing off a plate of mushrooms on toast and a cup of Earl Grey...
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by HindleA »

And why not
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

BBC News headline, MPs urge May to change the backstop.

There's over 600 MPs and AFAIK only about 80 of them are that stupid.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Indeed, are the ERG all of our "MPs" now?

Given some media coverage, you could admittedly be excused for thinking so.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

Nick Robinson doing today's shift on insulting Irish politicians, apparently.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

It is worth pointing out that Sir Graham Brady and Boris Johnson, although both Brexiters and both demanding a replacement to the backstop, have set slightly different red lines.
:wall:
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Sometimes the BBC can still do politics right.

Here's a good old fashioned BBC attempt at plain English around the numerous potential Brexit amendments.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46959545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Interesting article from D'Ancona today...

I believe in Tory values, but the party is becoming repellent

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ent-brexit
The whole point of Conservatism is not to submit to the siren call of teleology: the belief that history has an implacable direction. In a crisis of this nature, the proper role of Tories should be to cut through the infantile rhetoric, robotic platitudes and Vogon insistence that “resistance is useless!”, and show true statesmanship. Instead, we see – with some outstanding exceptions – a party cravenly fetishising the 2016 referendum as if no further expression of popular opinion on Brexit were possible; behaving as if the only thing that matters is to get out of the EU by 29 March, regardless of the overwhelming empirical evidence that there is no viable deal, and that a no-deal exit would be a total catastrophe (necessitating, among many other unpleasant measures, a framework for martial law).
Quite.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Better late than never, I suppose.......
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Sometimes the BBC can still do politics right.

Here's a good old fashioned BBC attempt at plain English around the numerous potential Brexit amendments.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46959545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did they crib it from this?
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... eps-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Haven't read either yet)
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

HindleA wrote:And why not
In a sense, that's what its there for.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Sometimes the BBC can still do politics right.

Here's a good old fashioned BBC attempt at plain English around the numerous potential Brexit amendments.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46959545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did they crib it from this?
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... eps-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Haven't read either yet)
You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment ;-)
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Labour criticised for abstaining on immigration bill

MPs will debate the second reading of the immigration bill this afternoon (or the immigration and social security coordination [EU withdrawal] bill, to give it its full title). This is the legislation that will bring EU nationals under UK immigration law after Brexit. Labour will abstain when it comes to the vote. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

PorFavor wrote:
Labour criticised for abstaining on immigration bill

MPs will debate the second reading of the immigration bill this afternoon (or the immigration and social security coordination [EU withdrawal] bill, to give it its full title). This is the legislation that will bring EU nationals under UK immigration law after Brexit. Labour will abstain when it comes to the vote. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Does the article give a justification?
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

I can't actually find any evidence for this abstention except a rumour from Anna Soubry (aka Sour Banyan).

Anyone else?
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Politics Live now has an explanation from Labour.

It's just a procedural abstention, with the intent to significantly amend at Committee Stage.

I read that this is perfectly normal practice. I suppose we are all paying more attention to the workings of Parliament than we normally do.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Nevertheless, even if there is a good reason for this abstention, tactical or whatever, it's fair to say they haven't been smart with the comms.

Just looks a bit of a mess!
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Starting to make more sense. There needs to be an immigration bill if we Brexit. So completely opposing it would amount to opposing Brexit.

A nasty trap!
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

O I C!
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gilsey
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

Jon Trickett, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, told the Guardian voters in his constituency would regard support for the measure on Tuesday as a failure to respect the result of the 2016 referendum.
At this stage of the process, I am sick to death of hearing MPs of all parties telling us what people/voters want. See also Rayner yesterday.

More than 2 years down the line, they don't know any more than we do.

You're an MP, tell us what you think is in the best interests of your constituents.



Don't @ me, as they say on twitter, I know it's unrealistic.
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

Twitter thread with some interesting observations:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nick Gutteridge
@nick_gutteridge
All star Brexit cast @epc_eu in Brussels today including Commission deputy chief negotiator Sabine Weyand and former UK ambassador to the EU Ivan Rogers. Will post any good quotes/insights below.
This particularly:
Nick Gutteridge
@nick_gutteridge
·
1h
‼️Weyand: 'You cannot lead a negotiation like that in secrecy. We've seen on UK side the fact this was handled in a very small circle and there was no info about all the things that were tried in the negotiations is now a big handicap.' ‼️
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gilsey
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by gilsey »

Dan Sabbagh

@dansabbagh
Replying to @dansabbagh
Only Theresa May could leave a room full of her own MPs unclear about what she just said...

10
5:49 PM - Jan 28, 2019
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PorFavor
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

8m ago 17:51

We’re getting confusing messages from the PM’s meeting with Conservative MPs.

This, from my colleague Dan Sabbagh, sums up the problem rather well.


Dan Sabbagh

@dansabbagh
Replying to @dansabbagh

Only Theresa May could leave a room full of her own MPs unclear about what she just said...

5:49 PM - Jan 28, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian)
Apparently, the room wasn't big enough to accommodate all those who wished to attend the meeting, and the accoustics were crap.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

More from the PM’s meeting with Tory MPs.

From the Guardian’s Dan Sabbagh

Dan Sabbagh

@dansabbagh

May DID say govt would whip in support of Brady says Simon Hart. Faced down Boris Johnson in the room, told him to back her to find out what happens next...
5:58 PM - Jan 28, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PorFavor »

@Gilsey

Whoops.
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

gilsey wrote:
Jon Trickett, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, told the Guardian voters in his constituency would regard support for the measure on Tuesday as a failure to respect the result of the 2016 referendum.
At this stage of the process, I am sick to death of hearing MPs of all parties telling us what people/voters want. See also Rayner yesterday.

More than 2 years down the line, they don't know any more than we do.

You're an MP, tell us what you think is in the best interests of your constituents.



Don't @ me, as they say on twitter, I know it's unrealistic.
He seems to be against anything that would delay Brexit beyond 29th March, which is pretty much everything other than crashing out with no deal at this point, with even May's deal heading for extra time, even if passed in the next couple of weeks.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Jon Trickett, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, told the Guardian voters in his constituency would regard support for the measure on Tuesday as a failure to respect the result of the 2016 referendum.
At this stage of the process, I am sick to death of hearing MPs of all parties telling us what people/voters want. See also Rayner yesterday.

More than 2 years down the line, they don't know any more than we do.

You're an MP, tell us what you think is in the best interests of your constituents.



Don't @ me, as they say on twitter, I know it's unrealistic.
He seems to be against anything that would delay Brexit beyond 29th March, which is pretty much everything other than crashing out with no deal at this point, with even May's deal heading for extra time, even if passed in the next couple of weeks.
Though the report said he might accept Cooper's amendment with a shorter time limit?

As people (including maybe yourself) have pointed out, any delay beyond the end of June is complicated by the newly elected European Parliament assembling then.
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

A shorter time limit would make holding a further referendum difficult, though, so I don't see the sense in asking for that. May doesn't need the Commons to legislate for her to ask for an extension if it's needed to ratify her deal (voted through with or without amendment) she'll happily do so voluntarily. As the only other options are no deal or no Brexit, neither of which require an extension, it seems to me Trickett is only willing to support the amendment if it's stripped of its point, though I accept Cooper is not being straight about it being a vehicle for a further referendum. Of course some may want to extend purely to buy time, but the EU may not be willing to agree that. It makes more sense to draft the amendment in a way that facilitates a route to a viable policy that prevents no deal that the EU has previously indicated it will grant an extension for, while leaving room for other outcomes. If you have a long extension you don't have to use it, but if you ask for a short extension you restrict your options.

Edited to switch an "extension" for an "amendment".
Last edited by Willow904 on Mon 28 Jan, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

Btw, I still think delaying beyond July would be challenging, but if you accept that as I do, you accept that a further referendum isn't desirable and its clear many MPs disagree. So I understand what Cooper is trying to achieve more than I agree with it, but as it still allows for all other options except no deal Brexit (if May doesn't manage to dodge it) I struggle to understand Trickett's objections, unless he views no deal Brexit as preferable to a further referendum, something I most certainly do not.

But then, I'm applying logic.
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Willow904
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by Willow904 »

Pippa Crerar
@PippaCrerar
NEW: Labour source says party will now vote AGAINST immigration bill - after fury from MPs and members.
7:13 PM
Yes, good. Hope they do.

Unlikely to be defeated so "blocking Brexit" not a huge concern. Nodding this through just wouldn't be right.

Edit: scratch that. Tweet has been deleted. Must be bad info. Ah well..
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

So Labour voted against and the vote passed.

Storms. Teacups.
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Well placed Tweet amidst the hysteria. I'm not certain it's true but it seems plausible.
Only 4 serving Labour MPs voted against the final reading of Theresa May's hostile Immigration Bill that led directly to the #Windrush scandal.
Jeremy Corbyn
John McDonnell
Diane Abbott
Dennis Skinner
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 28th January 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

So the "tens of thousands" target for net migration has been ditched?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is now "more sustainable levels" which can mean anything.
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