Tuesday 26th February 2019

Post by **refitman** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 7:03 am

Morning all.

Post by **adam** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:01 am

A good straightforward piece by Patrick Kielty in the graun

If we’re heading for a hard Brexit, then we’re heading for a united Ireland

Most people in Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU because there have only ever been two options post-Brexit – customs checks at the Irish border or in the Irish Sea. Each would cause divisions just as we were bridging the gaps (in spite of our politicians). Depressingly, there’s no way through this.

Post by **adam** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:46 am

And just as a reminder that there are more things in heaven and earth that anybody has yet to bother to consider that will have to be resolved...

No-deal Brexit panic after ministers realise the UK doesn't have the right pallets for exporting to the EU

Pallets are wooden or plastic structures which companies use to transport large volumes of goods. Under strict EU rules, pallets arriving from non-member states must be heat-treated or cleaned to prevent contamination, and marked to confirm they meet a series of standards. Most pallets currently used by British exporters do not conform to the rules which non-EU countries or "third countries" adhere to, as EU member states follow a much more relaxed set of regulations.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 10:11 am

adam wrote:A good straightforward piece by Patrick Kielty in the graun

If we’re heading for a hard Brexit, then we’re heading for a united Ireland

Whisper it quietly, but the best outcome for the DUP is actually a people’s vote. They’ll scream red, white and blue murder if it happens but privately breathe a sigh of relief. Like Boris Johnson, they never wanted Brexit but wanted to be seen to support it.

IMO this is true for a lot more people than just the DUP.

Post by **adam** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 10:15 am

gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:A good straightforward piece by Patrick Kielty in the graun

If we’re heading for a hard Brexit, then we’re heading for a united Ireland

Whisper it quietly, but the best outcome for the DUP is actually a people’s vote. They’ll scream red, white and blue murder if it happens but privately breathe a sigh of relief. Like Boris Johnson, they never wanted Brexit but wanted to be seen to support it.
IMO this is true for a lot more people than just the DUP.

It's a very very quotable article - I would usually just post it and walk away but I really recommend reading it.
(apologies - I just edited your post rather than replying to it - corrected now!)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 10:24 am

adam wrote:And just as a reminder that there are more things in heaven and earth that anybody has yet to bother to consider that will have to be resolved...

No-deal Brexit panic after ministers realise the UK doesn't have the right pallets for exporting to the EU

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 1:06 pm

Bit quiet today, given everything that is going on!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 1:23 pm

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what's going on!

But judging by the list of unhappy people, I'm happy

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:07 pm

As far as I can make sense of what's going on, May is delaying putting her WA before parliament until March 12th at which point, if it doesn't pass she will ask the EU for a short extension so everyone can prepare for no deal.

Meanwhile, Corbyn is saying he will back a referendum if his deal is rejected rather like he said he would back a referendum if he couldn't force a GE. It's remains somewhere down the queue as the clock runs down. It's not even clear if there is a majority in parliament for a referendum anyway.

I still think if parliament really wants to stop no deal, they need to vote for the only deal we have, with or without tweaks to the future declaration.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:25 pm

Lots of this about.

Michael Rosen
‏

@MichaelRosenYes
20h20 hours ago
More
The most important thing to do now if you hate Jeremy Corbyn is to come up with scenarios about how whatever he says or does to do with Brexit, he's not doing what he really wants to do. And he's lying. Or both.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:27 pm

Willow904 wrote:As far as I can make sense of what's going on, May is delaying putting her WA before parliament until March 12th at which point, if it doesn't pass she will ask the EU for a short extension so everyone can prepare for no deal.

Meanwhile, Corbyn is saying he will back a referendum if his deal is rejected rather like he said he would back a referendum if he couldn't force a GE. It's remains somewhere down the queue as the clock runs down. It's not even clear if there is a majority in parliament for a referendum anyway.

I still think if parliament really wants to stop no deal, they need to vote for the only deal we have, with or without tweaks to the future declaration.

Until now, there hasn't been. That could change, but I will believe it when I see it.

There seems to be solid legal agreement that we could extend A50 until the start of July without having to take part in this year's Euro elections.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:27 pm

Willow904 wrote: I still think if parliament really wants to stop no deal, they need to vote for the only deal we have, with or without tweaks to the future declaration.

That's the most likely outcome, the least impossible thing.

As Stephen Bush said last night, by 30 March something almost impossible will have happened.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:29 pm

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I still think if parliament really wants to stop no deal, they need to vote for the only deal we have, with or without tweaks to the future declaration.
That's the most likely outcome.

As Stephen Bush said last night, by 30 March something almost impossible will have happened.

I think a short A50 extension is likely now, for the simple reason we aren't fully prepared for an exit at the end of next month *even if some sort of deal is passed*.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 2:38 pm

I'm taking a short extension for granted.

If we don't take part in the EP elections, then we're out at the end of June, which is why I think the ERG will vote for May's deal in the end.

If they don't, another ref becomes a little bit more likely as a way May could get her deal through. Does she feel lucky?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Bit quiet today, given everything that is going on!

I've been praying

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:02 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:05 pm

Article 50 can be withdrawn
I knew that before praying

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:11 pm

@PaulfromYorkshire
The Ally Fogg tweet posted on yesterday's thread is wonderful

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:20 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/ ... rm-podcast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 3:20 pm

@gilsey
I love Michael Rosen

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 4:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Bit quiet today, given everything that is going on!
I've been praying

Worth a try, I suppose

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 4:19 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 4:40 pm

The tragedy is the appropriation of the right to work/participate/continue to by all Parties as a means of collusive agreement to blame the other side as part of political machination ,Purnell only continued the tradition.And of course,the extra costs allowance being used as cover in the double accounting ruse.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 5:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire
The Ally Fogg tweet posted on yesterday's thread is wonderful

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 6:11 pm

Vague shrink is confused convener of the Independence Group (5.6).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 6:19 pm

Some people expressing fake "surprise" that it was a white male in the end.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 7:17 pm

The opposition parties* are in agreement about a second referendum
Is this correct?

*not including DUP

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 7:24 pm

oh, my
Arlene Foster and the deputy DUP leader had a meeting with Theresa May this afternoon
Foster says the EU has to come up with something UK parliamentarians can agree on

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 7:45 pm

Don't think anyone else here is a Talk Talk fan. But, once again, RIP the remarkable Mark Hollis.

Perhaps their greatest "pop" song before drifting to the wilder shores of music was the absurdly catchy yet distinctive "Living in Another World to You"

[youtube]qAlLQaDXc4I[/youtube]

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 8:56 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I still think if parliament really wants to stop no deal, they need to vote for the only deal we have, with or without tweaks to the future declaration.
That's the most likely outcome.

As Stephen Bush said last night, by 30 March something almost impossible will have happened.
I think a short A50 extension is likely now, for the simple reason we aren't fully prepared for an exit at the end of next month *even if some sort of deal is passed*.

Yes, indeed. It will take 6-8 weeks for the EU to ratify the deal, as well as the legislation needed to pass in the UK to finalise it from our end, so an extension will be necessary for a deal. What seems to have changed is that it now seems likely the EU will grant a short extension to prepare for no deal.

What really needs to be taken on board is that if an extension long enough to accommodate a further referendum is to be secured it has to be negotiated from the start, as it's likely we'd need to take part in the May elections OR some sort of legal solution needs to be crafted. So decisions still need to be made right now, even if implementation is delayed.

Lurking behind all this is the fact the EU withdrawal act is still, to my knowledge, set to take effect from 29th March and I'm unclear what needs to be done to amend it if there's a delay. So although I've seen a cut off date from the EU side to ask for an extension of the 21st March, I don't know when our cut off is or whether it needs parliament approval to be changed.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:06 pm

@Willow904
I liked your post here yesterday about perceptions in the US regarding healthcare. In my experience, you're absolutely right.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:20 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Don't think anyone else here is a Talk Talk fan. But, once again, RIP the remarkable Mark Hollis.

Perhaps their greatest "pop" song before drifting to the wilder shores of music was the absurdly catchy yet distinctive "Living in Another World to You"

[youtube]qAlLQaDXc4I[/youtube]

You didn't notice my post early yesterday evening then?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:26 pm

@RoT

With apologies no!

Glad there is someone else to share with....

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:31 pm

I remember buying Colour of Spring like it was yesterday.

I already liked Talk Talk from their earlier stuff and had really enjoyed your choice Life's What You Make It.

Then, wow, I heard Living in Another World on the radio and that they had a brand new album. I rushed down to the shops and bought it. Never heard music like it before. I think my friends thought I had lost the plot

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:33 pm

It was March 1986 btw. I was 20.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 9:41 pm

Her last line...

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Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 11:22 pm

Went for a wander today and saw bees collecting pollen from Snowdrops.

That's surely not right.

Winter in Yorkshire.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 11:35 pm

And thank you Mr Corbyn for offering something you know fine well is dead due to your studied duplicitous behaviour.

You're fooling nobody.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 11:38 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:And thank you Mr Corbyn for offering something you know fine well is dead due to your studied duplicitous behaviour.

You're fooling nobody.

I predicted that might be your take on things.

In turn, the response of some of us will be a shrug and "the likes of you will never be satisfied".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 26 Feb, 2019 11:54 pm

I note from the front pages that a no=deal brexit may cut the economy by 9%

https://news.sky.com/story/wednesdays-n ... s-11649294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To put that into context, the reduction in GDP during the last recession was around 6.5% according to the last figures I have.

So that's effectively what the dimwits in the European "Research" Group want. Great eh?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Feb, 2019 12:12 am

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 27 Feb, 2019 12:15 am

Well quite Anatoly, I'm nothing if not predictable.

The problem is though that opinion was shared by the people I was with today, both well schooled in the Labour movement, one a councillor until last year.

You know as well as I do that this is a reverse fig leaf, a covering of arse, and that a second referendum campaign would have needed to start months ago.