Thursday 7th March 2019

Post by **refitman** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:03 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 8:46 am

Utopian fruit burger is mashed for party within a party (6,7,5).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 9:10 am

Good-morning, everyone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 10:33 am

Abi Wilkinson is back on Twitter, something which is as always very welcome. Check both her avatar and pinned tweet

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 12:37 pm

From the G live blog:

Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, has just confirmed that MPs will vote on Theresa May’s Brexit deal on Tuesday next week.

She said that, if the government loses the vote, she will make a further business statement on Tuesday about how the government will allow a vote on a no-deal Brexit, followed by a vote on extending article 50 if no deal gets rejected.

Looks like May's last gambit is to ramp up the pressure on the hard Brexit supporters to back her deal or face the uncertainty of delay and possible no Brexit. She'll need some opposition votes to get her deal through, though, even if only a small number of hard Brexiters hold out.

There's a better chance of passing the WA if she went the other way, softening the Brexit on offer with promises of closer ties to the EU, but still not a certain majority, so it seems unlikely she'll do this. I suspect we'll end up with an extension during which she will simply carry on trying to win support for her deal but probably still be facing the prospect of crashing out with no deal in a few months time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 1:09 pm

I thought an extension of Article 50 has to be approved by member states
Contingent upon coherent UK trajectory

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 1:11 pm

Though there is a case to be made that even a short delay "crosses the Rubicon" - if Brexit can be delayed once, it becomes easier to imagine doing it again?

Post by **adam** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 1:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:I thought an extension of Article 50 has to be approved by member states
Contingent upon coherent UK trajectory

It does - and there is a suggestion that it won't be granted just for a few more months drift, but only for a clear - as you say - trajectory.

There is a range of talk out there about how long - from 'there is no point to having a short extension and then just finding ourselves here again' to 'what do we do about the European Parliament'. It's been suggested that if we remain members once the new parliament sits then if we don't have representation any UK citizen could sue and would be bound to win.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 1:47 pm

It's my understanding that with or without a Parliamentary approved withdrawal agreement, the UK is out of the EU at the end of this month if Article 50 isn't revoked before then (with a genuine intention of remaining a member). Is this accurate?

Post by **adam** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 2:10 pm

citizenJA wrote:It's my understanding that with or without a Parliamentary approved withdrawal agreement, the UK is out of the EU at the end of this month if Article 50 isn't revoked before then (with a genuine intention of remaining a member). Is this accurate?

If - and it's not clear that it can happen but if - the EU agree an extension to the Article 50 notice period, then whatever new date is agreed to will become the 'new' March 29th, and we'll remain in until then.
If an agreement is reached, then we start a new countdown to the end of whatever transition period is agreed.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 2:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:It's my understanding that with or without a Parliamentary approved withdrawal agreement, the UK is out of the EU at the end of this month if Article 50 isn't revoked before then (with a genuine intention of remaining a member). Is this accurate?

The only way we can leave on the 29th March is to crash out with no deal. Even if May's deal is voted through next week, there isn't now time to ratify the agreement by the end of the month, so the EU will need to grant an extension in order to finalise the deal although there seems no reason to think they wouldn't once it's gained parliamentary approval. Whatever happens next week, any request to extend article 50 will have to be made by around 21st March and personally I think the choice between long or short extension will have to be made then. If we go for a short extension, we won't take part in the May elections so the possibility of a further extension beyond that seems quite slim, unless we decide on it now and take part in the EU elections. If we pass the 21st without asking for an extension or an extension is refused by the EU then after that point there will be just two possibilities - leave with no deal or revoke article 50. There's one question mark I've yet to resolve, though. Both extension or revocation will require the Withdrawal Act, which is set by law to come into effect on 29th March, to be amended. I don't know what would be required to amend it, however, such as whether it requires parliament approval and therefore don't know how long that would take.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 2:33 pm

citizenJA wrote:I thought an extension of Article 50 has to be approved by member states
Contingent upon coherent UK trajectory

The EU can actually offer an extension without us asking, which we could agree to or not.
Hardly likely to happen but it'd be interesting to see May's reaction.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:04 pm

gilsey wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I thought an extension of Article 50 has to be approved by member states
Contingent upon coherent UK trajectory
The EU can actually offer an extension without us asking, which we could agree to or not.
Hardly likely to happen but it'd be interesting to see May's reaction.

I don't think that is any longer impossible tbh, as you say it would put the cat amongst the pigeons rather.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:16 pm

Of course there is an increasing overlap between recipients of DLA/PIP and ESA ,nearly two thirds of working age, raised pension age a factor.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:23 pm

Rudd's non ephiphany is as disingenuous and calculated as IDS's. ,

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:27 pm

Many thanks for the responses, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:27 pm

That much is obvious is saying the same things in obfuscaTORY fashion only in effect revealing the obvious attempt at deceit.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:34 pm

Completely missing of course in the not really disabled propaganda was the clear evidence,easily obtained,though apparently beyond the effort of nearly all journalists was that most had/have also have long term health conditions.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:41 pm

Yet people accepted the mass corruption and conspiracy of the medical/social welfare profession/politicos and citizens in order to facillitate as a given.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 3:52 pm

Good morfternoon.

David Lammy
✔
@DavidLammy

You might forgive your grandma for saying it, but cabinet Ministers in 2019 should know better than this.

Using the term "coloured" to describe anyone who is not white is offensive because it assumes being white is somehow normal or the default.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... -interview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

What a common-sense response. I like David Lammy.

As for Karen Bradley . . .

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 4:32 pm

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was always the law and their basic incompetence that would act as a counter to their harmful intents.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 4:33 pm

On a day when two cabinet ministers are already in trouble for comments that caused offence, the Labour MP Naz Shah has queried why, when she asked for a debate on Islamophobia earlier today during business questions, Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, said this would be a matter for the Foreign Office. (Politics Live, Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 4:33 pm

Sorry "tough ~~shit~~ love"attempts.

Post by **adam** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 4:40 pm

Tommy Robinson could face up to two years in prison in fresh contempt of court proceedings - The Independent

He was found to be in contempt on two occasions - an earlier one relating to canterbury and a later one relating to leeds. He appealed both (actually he appealed the later one and then added on an appeal against the earlier one) - the appeal against the earlier one was dismissed and the contempt finding upheld - the appeal against the later one was successful and the matter was referred back to the Central Criminal Court, who referred the matter to the Attorney General. You can get up to two years in prison (and an unlimited fine) for contempt - he was given a suspended sentence for the first one which still holds (I think) and that will be taken into account if he's found again to have been in contempt (and the appeal was successful on fairly procedural grounds rather than on the substance of what he did) as well as a longer sentence. I've known people get a full two years for a second contempt finding - last time I think he was given a a year plus the activation of the one or two month bender from the first finding.

The court of appeal's judgement from last summer (upholding Canterbury and overturning and referring back Leeds) is here.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 5:01 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
David Lammy
✔
@DavidLammy

You might forgive your grandma for saying it, but cabinet Ministers in 2019 should know better than this.

Using the term "coloured" to describe anyone who is not white is offensive because it assumes being white is somehow normal or the default.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... -interview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
What a common-sense response. I like David Lammy.

As for Karen Bradley . . .

I like Lammy a lot too
I once described him as 'African-American' and then did this

immediately after saying it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 5:14 pm

I thought 'coloured' went out with segregation

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 5:39 pm

I've lived in the US and the UK
Cultural and ethnic descriptive lingo are different
My ignorance of appropriate terminology and pronunciation sometimes embarrasses me

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 6:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:I thought 'coloured' went out with segregation

Though there is still the National Association For The Advancement Of Colo(u)red People on your original side of the pond......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:01 pm

Backstop may threaten Northern Irish human rights, says Cox (Guardian)

If that were the case, wouldn't that rule out any backstop of any length? And in the light of the up-coming EU elections, surely someone (eg Geoffrey Cox) should have thought of this before now?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... complaints

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I thought 'coloured' went out with segregation
Though there is still the National Association For The Advancement Of Colo(u)red People on your original side of the pond......

What I don't know about the US is a lot
I lived all over the US for brief periods of time followed by a longer amount of time in California
California is essentially a different country in comparison to New England states, the US Midwest or the US South...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:I've lived in the US and the UK
Cultural and ethnic descriptive lingo are different
My ignorance of appropriate terminology and pronunciation sometimes embarrasses me

Thank you for this - for your understanding

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Backstop may threaten Northern Irish human rights, says Cox (Guardian)
If that were the case, wouldn't that rule out any backstop of any length? And in the light of the up-coming EU elections, surely someone (eg Geoffrey Cox) should have thought of this before now?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... complaints

“The attorney general [Cox] said there was a risk of violating the ECHR,” a senior EU source said. “He said a lot of surprising things this week.”

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:27 pm

Something about a codpiece

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:36 pm

Let's say this government pull Article 50 and stop Brexit
Would people be so grateful they'd vote Tory?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:39 pm

I'm trying to figure out what they're playing at

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:39 pm

citizenJA wrote:Something about a codpiece

Yes - I heard him. I suppose he knows that Lord Flashheart (in Blackadder) is a character there for laughs.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:42 pm

Evening all.

Library day today and then back for a verdict from Ofsted...and let's just say it went the way we hoped it would. Everyone pretty chuffed.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 7:51 pm

citizenJA wrote:Let's say this government pull Article 50 and stop Brexit
Would people be so grateful they'd vote Tory?

It seems unlikely. They'd probably lose more disgruntled leave voters to Ukip or whatever Farage's new party is than they would win back remain supporting swing voters. Which is why we are going through with this madness, to save the Tory party from annihilation. Hoist upon their own "scapegoating the EU" petard.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 9:57 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 10:42 pm

Foreign Office grants Zaghari-Ratcliffe diplomatic protection

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 1:26 am

Gave in and watched Question Time.

Margaret Beckett was making a decent job of explaining Labour's position on Brexit and a second referendum, some of the audience began to boo while others clapped, so Fiona Bruce stopped her and asked who had been booing then offered them the opportunity to have a go.

You all know I'm no supporter of Labour's Brexit shenanigans so when even I can see naked transparent bias there's something seriously wrong.

Especially when a young woman pointed out Dominic Raab's comments about not understanding Dover's importance and Fiona Bruce said to him, in an apologetic tone, 'you know I have to read this quote back to you' as if she was doing something she'd rather not do.

At no point during Raab's empty rhetorical blather about his government's response to kids killing each other with knives did she stop him and offer the audience a chance to respond.

Had enough now, must stop watching it.