Saturday 9th & Sunday 10th March 2019

Post by **refitman** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 6:42 am

Morning all.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 9:35 am

Alistair Campbell has discovered Labour's Brexit strategy and claimed it for himself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... son-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 10:38 am

https://jennymorrisnet.blogspot.com/201 ... n.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 10:51 am

"Disabled people welcomed the way the government had formally adopted the social model of disability in Life Chances. But what we hadn’t realised was how the model would be misused"

If any doubt whatsoever that the DWP shouldn't be abolished please read.All good intentions,and despite the bah New Labour no difference bullshit there was,will inevitably be stymied.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 10:56 am

Good morfternoon.

'Let's get it done': May urges MPs to back her Brexit deal (Guardian)

Or, as Marvin Gaye might have put it -

[youtube]x6QZn9xiuOE[/youtube]

Sorry - had to do that to exorcise a horrible image I've had in my mind since yesterday.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 11:06 am

How many times has she "urged" this now, to little discernible effect?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 11:39 am

Death certificate( plus birth/marriage) cost nearly trebling something I missed from £4 to £ 11

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 12:06 pm

As C4 plays catch up on the dubious activities of Arron Banks, yet more dark money quietly floods social media pushing for a damaging "no deal" Brexit:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/mys ... tim-dawson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Mysterious Hard Brexit Group Run By A Young Tory Writer Is Now Britain’s Biggest Spending Political Campaign On Facebook

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 1:49 pm

Willow904 wrote:As C4 plays catch up on the dubious activities of Arron Banks,

C4 not the only ones playing catch up.
Alison McGovern and Jess Phillips didn't know Leave.EU had carried on campaigning on FB after Jo Cox was killed and the official campaigns were suspended?
Either they're playing up for the cameras or they're totally lost in the Westminster bubble.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 2:20 pm

Talking of Phillips (who got mentioned here yesterday too) her latest piece for the Times is..........just plain weird.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 3:22 pm

Pretty good, I thought. It had me laughing, at any rate. I was thinking along the same lines when it comes to Geoffrey Cox's contribution to solving "Brexit".

Worried about Brexit? What, with these geniuses in charge?
Marina Hyde

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ves-brexit

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 3:25 pm

Yeah its one of her better ones.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 6:17 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 6:32 pm

Compare with Chris Leslie's infamous "Labour must be the party of the landlord" post-2015 GE effort.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 8:15 pm

one of 303,000 people wrongly handed a fine by the NHS Business Authority in 2018

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/ne ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man in DWP benefits row after he was wrongly fined by blundering officials

Solved by a rather easy solution(well,two the other I keep repeating)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 8:34 pm

Evening all.

Back from an overnight trip to Derby - gig last night and lunch with an old work colleague today. And a long walk round taking photos of houses which I doubt anyone apart from me would be the slightest bit interested in...

And Orient won and are back at the top of the table no less.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 8:40 pm

The next time a Tory minister jeers at "council-run schools", better show them this...from a letter by Jon Coles, CEO of United Learning.

It's always been richly ironic that they were arguing for schools to become academies to get them away from the "shackles of the local council" when in fact by doing so, those schools have even less autonomy than they've had for decades.

Getting people like Nick Gibb to admit that though is another matter...

AFinch · Post by **AFinch** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 10:44 am

Peter Oborne, pretty thoroughly debunking that trashy book by Tom Bower.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/t ... ader-truth

There is a problem here which goes much deeper than Tom Bower himself and raises questions about the British media and political culture. Bear in mind that Bower’s book is not just intellectually dishonest, it is a farrago of falsehood and insinuation.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:15 am

That is a genuinely impressive bit of writing.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:16 am

Another unlikely supporter of Labour's brexit policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ies-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Labour leader, of course, has to handle his own MPs, many of whom are lobbying for another referendum. Corbyn’s answer should be: first things first. Once Brussels has agreed a delay, a transitional deal and a political statement on future relations, the case for a confirming plebiscite, as in 1975, would be strong. At the very least it might calm jangled nerves. Evidence suggests an emphatic acceptance of a Britain outside the EU but within some form of shared economic space.

Nothing about Brexit was going to be easy or ideal. Staying in a customs union does not negate Brexit. But it does honour the double commitment that May and her government made to voters: to leave the EU but retain open trade with the continent. Throughout history Britain has wavered “in and out” of Europe. It is now embarked on an out phase. But at least it has an opportunity to forge a compromise. Jeremy Corbyn’s improbable destiny is to deliver it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:59 am

Good-afternoon, everyone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 12:14 pm

Oh god, Simon Jenkins talking sense. We are truly in the end times.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 12:22 pm

refitman wrote:Alistair Campbell has discovered Labour's Brexit strategy and claimed it for himself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... son-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 12:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Oh god, Simon Jenkins talking sense. We are truly in the end times.

I don't think a customs union not including free movement of people will solve the ROI-UK border
Am I wrong?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 1:08 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Oh god, Simon Jenkins talking sense. We are truly in the end times.
I don't think a customs union not including free movement of people will solve the ROI-UK border
Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. The only way to respect the GFA and not have any kind of border in the Irish Sea at all is for the whole of the UK to remain in the single market as well as the customs union.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 1:15 pm

It's snowing
West Midlands

edited to add
It's stopped snowing and the sun is shining

Post by **refitman** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 1:50 pm

citizenJA wrote:It's snowing
West Midlands

edited to add
It's stopped snowing and the sun is shining

Hailing here, in God's own county.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 1:52 pm

I can just about understand why elected representatives and public servants pussyfoot around; it's a tragic state of affairs if they feel they must.
Why the prevarication from media and others not under the same pressures and scrutiny? I'm not particularly sharp. If I can figure some EU rules, anyone can.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 2:12 pm

I think my understanding of the EU and the UK's relationship within it or out of it isn't as simple as I've written
What I don't know is a lot

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 2:29 pm

refitman wrote:
citizenJA wrote:It's snowing
West Midlands

edited to add
It's stopped snowing and the sun is shining
Hailing here, in God's own county.

Hail here too, and biting cold. Barely a week on from actually warm weather.

Do we have actual seasons any more?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 2:48 pm

Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Oh god, Simon Jenkins talking sense. We are truly in the end times.
I don't think a customs union not including free movement of people will solve the ROI-UK border
Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. The only way to respect the GFA and not have any kind of border in the Irish Sea at all is for the whole of the UK to remain in the single market as well as the customs union.

For reasons I don't pretend to understand, it suits Labour to skate over the fact that a Customs Union is necessary but not sufficient. Maybe trying not to frighten the horses/Caroline Flint.
To keep the Irish border open, which as I understand it is a 'red line', Labour would have to arrive at the right place wrt the single market, in the unlikely event of it ever being up to them.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 4:16 pm

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I don't think a customs union not including free movement of people will solve the ROI-UK border
Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. The only way to respect the GFA and not have any kind of border in the Irish Sea at all is for the whole of the UK to remain in the single market as well as the customs union.
For reasons I don't pretend to understand, it suits Labour to skate over the fact that a Customs Union is necessary but not sufficient. Maybe trying not to frighten the horses/Caroline Flint.
To keep the Irish border open, which as I understand it is a 'red line', Labour would have to arrive at the right place wrt the single market, in the unlikely event of it ever being up to them.

Or accept a border in the Irish Sea.

By not pointing out the necessary compromises, they allow May's government and the hard Brexiters to skate over the facts, as well, that's the problem.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 4:21 pm

It must have been cold on the basis of the first time ever wearing a long sleeved garment on a (half)staggerthon(or else I'm getting old)No gloves that would going far too far.Point is to feel whatever the weather and conditions hold.It helps to be a bit of a masochist.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 4:32 pm

I think it is important to note that GFA really needs free movement on an hourly or daily basis, rather than the right to move residence over the border. Unless I misunderstand.

Some limited controls on people actually moving into the UK may not be incompatible with the GFA and as has been said here before may in fact be possible under existing rules!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 4:37 pm

HindleA wrote:It must have been cold on the basis of the first time ever wearing a long sleeved garment on a (half)staggerthon(or else I'm getting old)No gloves that would going far too far.Point is to feel whatever the weather and conditions hold.It helps to be a bit of a masochist.

You live well, close to the environment, the outdoors. Mr citizen does the same. I admire you both and do my best to follow where you lead.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:11 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think it is important to note that GFA really needs free movement on an hourly or daily basis, rather than the right to move residence over the border. Unless I misunderstand.

Some limited controls on people actually moving into the UK may not be incompatible with the GFA and as has been said here before may in fact be possible under existing rules!

This is my understanding as well.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:21 pm

The Belfast Agreement, also known as the Good Friday Agreement (GFA), was reached in multi-party negotiations and signed on 10 April 1998
Published 10 April 1998
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -agreement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"The British and Irish Governments declare that it is their joint understanding that the term "the people of Northern Ireland" in paragraph (vi) of Article 1 of this Agreement means, for the purposes of giving effect to this provision, all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA emphasis)
That's everyone with UK or Irish citizenship or other EU nationals entitled to reside in NI or anyone with indefinite leave to remain in the UK, isn't it? There's currently no restriction on any UK-EU citizen or any national with indefinite leave to remain in the UK moving to NI, is there?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:23 pm

That's a good peace treaty, the Belfast Agreement. I like it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:24 pm

jeepers
did I just make the same mistake that Tory minister (I forget his name) made in regards to NI and citizenship?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:27 pm

I don't mind being wrong and having correct information replacing where I've misunderstood
I'd expect greater accuracy coming from a member of government

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:32 pm

gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:As C4 plays catch up on the dubious activities of Arron Banks,
C4 not the only ones playing catch up.
Alison McGovern and Jess Phillips didn't know Leave.EU had carried on campaigning on FB after Jo Cox was killed and the official campaigns were suspended?
Either they're playing up for the cameras or they're totally lost in the Westminster bubble.

I think the latter is more likely
Yeah, you'd hope the opposition party members would be less affected by the enormous effort going into keeping people ignorant of whatever most of UK media want kept secret

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:42 pm

HindleA wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true

This is good.

A Labour government would oblige private landlords to offer tenancies of indefinite length, based on the German system, in an attempt to give renters more security.

The plan, announced by the shadow housing secretary, John Healey, would seek to protect tenants from arbitrary eviction without having to give a reason. In contrast in Germany, landlords are only allowed to evict tenants for reasons such as failure to pay rent or committing an offence in the property.

Labour says the indefinite system brings more security for renters, with private tenancies in Germany lasting an average of 11 years, compared with about four in England. This would, the party says, particularly help the 1.6m households with dependant children in private rented accommodation.

Currently, tenants can be evicted with notice without any reason being given.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 7:42 pm

I think it was already referenced upthread. But well worth repeating

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 10:35 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 10:44 pm

What's well worth repeating is Labour winning an election on a pro-EU platform.

Rather than shitting themselves about a few votes they'd never get anyway.

This whole idea of them losing the North is absolute bollocks. Even in Hartlepool most Labour voters voted to remain.

(so I've heard.)

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:03 pm

Hmmm....

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:20 pm

Hmmm......

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 11:39 pm

You can say that again........