Friday 15th March 2019

Post by **refitman** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 7:03 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 7:55 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:09 am

Dreadful news from New Zealand which has suffered right-wing terrorism attacks on mosques. The death toll is standing at 50.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:58 am

PorFavor wrote:Dreadful news from New Zealand which has suffered right-wing terrorism attacks on mosques. The death toll is standing at 50.

dreadful indeed

Should I find myself feeling murderous impulses towards others, I step away alone and think about my feelings and find out what's fundamentally upsetting me. I've discovered it's fear, my fear of the unknown, the future and whether or not I'll have one. I'll not alleviate this fear by killing others. Fear and killing and more fear become endless. Killing others is tragic, pointless, inadequate and wrong. It doesn't work.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:59 am

Good-morning, everyone

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 9:28 am

https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/03/15/ni ... qus_thread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the advice, the Attorney General states that Britain will be able to end the backstop if it having a “socially destabilising effect on Northern Ireland”, which would be considered a “fundamental change” of circumstances under the terms of the treaty.
He argues that Britain would have grounds to break off from the backstop if it was having a “socially destabilising effect on Northern Ireland”.

I know this was raised yesterday but I hadn't picked up on the suggested reason for the 'fundamental change', and inference that anyone using this possibility as a reason to accept the backstop, would be expecting/relying on unionist (most likely) disruption.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 9:49 am

EU Commissioner Phil Hogan believes the UK’s no-deal tariff plans - proposals that would see no import duties levied on goods entering Northern Ireland across the border - are likely to breach World Trade Organisation rules. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Post by **adam** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 9:50 am

tinybgoat wrote:https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/03/15/ni ... qus_thread
In the advice, the Attorney General states that Britain will be able to end the backstop if it having a “socially destabilising effect on Northern Ireland”, which would be considered a “fundamental change” of circumstances under the terms of the treaty.
He argues that Britain would have grounds to break off from the backstop if it was having a “socially destabilising effect on Northern Ireland”.
I know this was raised yesterday but I hadn't picked up on the suggested reason for the 'fundamental change', and inference that anyone using this possibility as a reason to accept the backstop, would be expecting/relying on unionist (most likely) disruption.

It's complete nonsense.

This has been around and was quoted yesterday, but, again, when Hungary tried to get out of a treaty commitment to build a damn on the Danube, and the international court ruled that the collapse of the Soviet Union, the ending of the Warsaw Pact and the dissolution of Czechoslovakia was not 'a fundamental change that affected the treaty obligations'. It's also not relevant if the change was foreseen by the parties - the very fact that there is a discussion about things that Article 62 could apply to means that it can't apply to them. So far as I can see, it's intended as, for want of a better word, a backstop - a last chance way of doing justice to a situation where nothing is like it was before in genuinely unforeseen ways. It's got nothing to do with this situation.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 10:28 am

I saw a few minutes of QT last night, JHB actually said something sensible. An audience member said if there was a second ref he'd never vote again and she jumped right in saying no, you must vote, vote them out.

My own reaction is that if dimwits like him refuse to vote we'll be in a better place in future.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 10:39 am

The person apprehended for the NZ atrocity seems to be another Breivik type.

Do the purveyors of hate really imagine that there outpourings can be totally cost free?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 10:44 am

Others who rejected the idea of an extension included Penny Mordaunt, Liam Fox and Chris Grayling. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I thought Chris Grayling was one of Theresa May's greatest supporters. Now can we get rid of him? (Although, conceivably, he wandered into the wrong lobby by mistake.)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 10:48 am

This is good fun.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dmitry Grozoubinski
‏

@DmitryOpines
24h24 hours ago
More
3/ Next, you want to dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as shills for Remain, the European Union or better and more inexplicably yet, Jeremy Corbyn.

After all only you, Mr Tory Peer and Deputy Chairman of Leave Means Leave, are TRULY impartial on this issue.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 11:35 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -up-to-10m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 11:37 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... revelation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 12:36 pm

And to anybody who responds to this morning's events with "Islam isn't a race" - YOU are part of the problem.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 1:03 pm

DUP holding "significant discussions" with government

The party is holding “ongoing and significant discussions with Government” over Brexit, the Press Association reports. (Politics Live, Guardian)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 1:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:
DUP holding "significant discussions" with government

The party is holding “ongoing and significant discussions with Government” over Brexit, the Press Association reports. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Of the "Give us what we want otherwise we'll bring down the government" variety?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 1:23 pm

Beth Rigby (@BethRigby)

NEW: Understand DUP and Cox remaining in London all weekend to work on possible agreement. Looking at what additional provisions they could add to domestic law to underline interpretations on backstop (in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill?)
March 15, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

So we're now to tailor domestic law to suit the DUP?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 1:33 pm

This is just staggering. It's almost impossible to believe this is happening. It's an absolute scandal, a direct consequence of the massive cuts to local councils. Predictable and preventable, the government must be made to take responsibility for this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47539071#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thousands of teenagers in care living without adults

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 3:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:Dreadful news from New Zealand which has suffered right-wing terrorism attacks on mosques. The death toll is standing at 50.

Newsnight rightly being panned today for that recent "Tommy Robinson" whitewash.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 3:26 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... eject-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 3:39 pm

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/i- ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 3:41 pm

Jessica Elgot
✔
@jessicaelgot

These comments from the Brexit secretary suggest VERY heavily he will not be prepared to negotiate a longer extension if deal does not pass.

"If we can get the deal through...we will now need a short technical extension, but if not we shouldn't be afraid to leave with no deal." (Politics Live, Guardian)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:15 pm

There was no way we were going to have an extension at all just a matter of weeks ago, according to the PM no less.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:36 pm

So no reason for ERG to vote for her?

I don't follow any more.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:38 pm

Or she's resigned to ERG voting against and is instead trying to scare Remoaners into voting for her?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:48 pm

Quite often early challenges lead to exceeding not only expectations but outstripping those without.Not only is pre elimination on the basis of "imperfection" morally repugnant it is societally harmful IMHO.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:52 pm

Missing the fuck the pathetic vulnerable expectation,to be honest.Pat the head get your arm ripped off.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:54 pm

I don't suppose any of you might guess who Piers Morgan thinks could sort out Brexit for us??

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:55 pm

Verbally

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:56 pm

In full flow,wonderous.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:57 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't suppose any of you might guess who Piers Morgan thinks could sort out Brexit for us??

Queen?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 4:57 pm

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:02 pm

The The

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't suppose any of you might guess who Piers Morgan thinks could sort out Brexit for us??

Yes, I saw that yesterday...gotta be right - after all the talks with North Korea have gone so well...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:04 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The The

Decent band back in the day.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:06 pm

Portland mud slips for unlikely Brexit mediator (6,5).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The The
Decent band back in the day.

That track with Jools Holland!

Uncertain smile?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:07 pm

Societal failures presented as individual,the point is to change it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:08 pm

The Bangladesh cricket team were close to the mosque in Christchurch, report may be of interest.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/ ... se-save-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:14 pm

I realised last night that I know sfa about politics. I caught a bit of This Week and Dominic Grieve was speaking so I left it on while he was talking sense about Brexit, Portillo wasn't happy.
At the end Neil asked him if he would join TIG and he said no, they're social democrats and I'm a conservative, as if it was obvious.
It's far from obvious to me in practice. Maybe the fact that he was asked the question means it's not just me.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:22 pm

I see Mad Mel got told to STFU today...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:23 pm

gilsey wrote:I realised last night that I know sfa about politics. I caught a bit of This Week and Dominic Grieve was speaking so I left it on while he was talking sense about Brexit, Portillo wasn't happy.
At the end Neil asked him if he would join TIG and he said no, they're social democrats and I'm a conservative, as if it was obvious.
It's far from obvious to me in practice. Maybe the fact that he was asked the question means it's not just me.

Dad a QC went to posh school and Magdalene. Class thing innit?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 5:37 pm

gilsey wrote:I realised last night that I know sfa about politics. I caught a bit of This Week and Dominic Grieve was speaking so I left it on while he was talking sense about Brexit, Portillo wasn't happy.
At the end Neil asked him if he would join TIG and he said no, they're social democrats and I'm a conservative, as if it was obvious.
It's far from obvious to me in practice. Maybe the fact that he was asked the question means it's not just me.

TIG.........who are they again??

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 6:30 pm

gilsey wrote:I realised last night that I know sfa about politics. I caught a bit of This Week and Dominic Grieve was speaking so I left it on while he was talking sense about Brexit, Portillo wasn't happy.
At the end Neil asked him if he would join TIG and he said no, they're social democrats and I'm a conservative, as if it was obvious.
It's far from obvious to me in practice. Maybe the fact that he was asked the question means it's not just me.

It's not obvious TIG are social democrats or that Portillo is a conservative?!

Personally I think Portillo, like Ken Clarke, is pretty much a textbook conservative. Which is why, when you put them next to the current crop of Tories, you can see that much of the current crop of Tories aren't conservatives at all, but somewhere much further to the right. With quite fascistic tendencies. A conservative favours free enterprise, private ownership and has socially conservative values. Whilst fascism tends more to authoritarianism, nationalism and oppression. There seem to be rather more of the latter persuasion in the Tory party these days and fewer of the former.

As for whether TIG are social democrats, it's probably too early to tell....but...while social democracy can accommodate capitalism, the direction of travel should be, certainly from our current position, towards a more socialist society for them to truly be a social democratic party. Not sure there's much sign of that from TIG yet, but who knows.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 7:37 pm

BTW did everyone solve the recyclable begonia anagram the other day?

I loved it

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 7:42 pm

Constance has dropped a stitch.Things are beginning to unravel.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:36 pm

A personal thanks to those who have responded to Boris's hypocrisy

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:50 pm

Tommy Robinson loses harassment case against police force

The judge, Karen Walden-Smith, said: “In my judgment there’s no evidence that Mr Lennon was being treated differently because of his beliefs about fundamentalist Islam.”

Giving her judgment on Friday after a four-day hearing, she added: “Mr Lennon isn’t as well known as he and his supporters may think.” (Guardian - my emphasis)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... lice-force

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 15 Mar, 2019 8:59 pm

No long Brexit delay without election of British MEPs, says leaked paper

The leak of the document will likely help May in her bid to play up the threat to Brexit that would come with again voting down the withdrawal agreement. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... u-election

Edited -

PTO

(AnatolyKasparov pointed out the error of my ways.)