Tuesday 30th September 2014

Post by **refitman** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 7:28 am

Morning all. Labour lead at 5 points on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 29th Sept -

Con 31%, (no change)
Lab 36%, (no change)
LD 7%, (+1)
UKIP 16%; (+1)

APP -24 (no change)

Post by **refitman** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 8:09 am

Howard Shipley, who is running Universal Credit, it's stepping down. He's being replaced by the bloke running Job Centre Plus.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 8:43 am

Apologies for bringing up Brooks Newmark so early in the morning, but Steve Hewlett confirmed on last night's Newsnight that it wasn't some lefty journo who stung Newmark, rather it was Alex Wickham, one of Guido's attack dogs, blue on blue, dont'cha just love it?!

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 8:55 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Apologies for bringing up Brooks Newmark so early in the morning, but Steve Hewlett confirmed on last night's Newsnight that it wasn't some lefty journo who stung Newmark, rather it was Alex Wickham, one of Guido's attack dogs, blue on blue, dont'cha just love it?!

Some just have a pathological need to destroy. Brooks Newmark just not rabid enough for them?

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:06 am

Stumped. I've no idea where to go for news and comment, now. The Indy is as bad to view as the new beta version of the Grauniad! *harrumph*

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:10 am

JackPranker wrote:Stumped. I've no idea where to go for news and comment, now. The Indy is as bad to view as the new beta version of the Grauniad! *harrumph*

Maybe that's what's next for FTN, a daily rolling news blog section with no comment, just links and headlines ?

Spotted the flaw though, no point in putting Guardian links if it's all Beta ****.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:18 am

Morning all.

Laura McInerney @miss_mcinerney · 9h 9 hours ago
Liz Truss banging on about apples, pears and cheese &how it is a "disgrace" that we import it. Well, at least it makes a change from maths.

and

Laura McInerney @miss_mcinerney · 9h 9 hours ago
I now have visions of Truss moving from department to department declaring everything a disgrace. Not a brilliant vision.

Not quite sure why we shouldn't import cheese. How on earth did this airhead get into a government position let alone cabinet?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:19 am

Morning all.

Caught Cameron being interviewed by Naughtie. Enjoyed the question of how upset he would be if we left the EU. You could sense the discomfort at having to say he's pro EU given his anti EU rhetoric.

Post by **adam** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:22 am

Richard Barnes, former conservative Deputy Mayor of London, defects to UKIP - Standard Article

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:24 am

Is Truss suggesting import substitution, something Thatcher banned nearly 40 years ago?

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:26 am

Isn't it a 'disgrace' that we import millions of tons of coal while we are sitting on hundreds of years supply that has been buried and flooded?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:26 am

adam wrote:Richard Barnes, former conservative Deputy Mayor of London, defects to UKIP - Standard Article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barnes_(British_politician" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Barnes opposed Section 28 and is openly gay.[3] His reputation was tarnished in September 2013 when he inadvertently posted naked pictures of himself on the internet. [4]

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:28 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Caught Cameron being interviewed by Naughtie. Enjoyed the question of how upset he would be if we left the EU. You could sense the discomfort at having to say he's pro EU given his anti EU rhetoric.
I missed it. Did he ask how 7 day GP services would be paid for?

No. He said it would cost £400m and the NHS budget each year was so many billion (I forget the figure he quoted) blah blah blah. No targeted follow up questioning like for say Ed Balls.

Osborne a genius? Maybe if he wants to be leader of the opposition.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-o ... eath/29351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:30 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
adam wrote:Richard Barnes, former conservative Deputy Mayor of London, defects to UKIP - Standard Article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Barnes_(British_politician" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Barnes opposed Section 28 and is openly gay.[3] His reputation was tarnished in September 2013 when he inadvertently posted naked pictures of himself on the internet. [4]

Well spotted Rog

But was he wearing paisley jimjams ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:32 am

" But my colleague John Aziz dismisses Robinson's claim that the main problem with the British economy is public indebtedness:

The only deficit strain, at this point, exists in the speeches of austerity-mongering politicians and commentators. Borrowing is cheap, inflation is low and there is still some slack in the economy in terms of people out of work and spare capacity even after a slow, painful six-year climb out of the trough. That suggests the real disease Britain has suffered from was not too much borrowing but a huge economic slump and mass unemployment.

And Chris Dillow, responding to Times columnist Philip Collins's description of deficit worries as “reality”, is even more cutting:

Such Bubblethink feeds on itself. One way in which it does so is by current affairs programmes relying upon a circle-jerk of gobshites to the exclusion of experts who might prick the bubble; the fact that James Delingtwat appears on the BBC more than Simon Wren-Lewis tells you all you need to know. "

http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/the_economics_of_ed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 9:51 am

: sht30091.JPG (59.07 KiB) Viewed 20534 times

...don't worry - Fat Eric's got the little list...he started in 2011 with 120,000 families...

http://www.local.gov.uk/localism/-/jour ... 11/ARTICLE

...and it all went very well...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013 ... ommunities

...it's now 500,000...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... res-causes

...so as long as Irritable Dipped in Shit can get to Fat Eric before he's turned them all around by 2015 (figures quadrupled in 2 1/2 years - no problem to turnaround the whole lot (as per Dodgy Daves' 'ambition') in 7 months) there may be some families left for 'the treatment'. It'll be a nice little earner for someone...perhaps there's a Tory donor somewhere who could help them out.

As, I think, ohso said - the people most affected by this kind of inhuman victimisation are the children...sorry - thought I was going to be able to say more...but just no words

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:10 am

Morning all.

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Apologies for bringing up Brooks Newmark so early in the morning, but Steve Hewlett confirmed on last night's Newsnight that it wasn't some lefty journo who stung Newmark, rather it was Alex Wickham, one of Guido's attack dogs, blue on blue, dont'cha just love it?!

Curiously Guido's tawdry little blog has forgotten to mention this fact. I expect Staines' ear is still burning from the telephone roasting he undoubtedly received from Lynton.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:15 am

StephenDolan wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Caught Cameron being interviewed by Naughtie. Enjoyed the question of how upset he would be if we left the EU. You could sense the discomfort at having to say he's pro EU given his anti EU rhetoric.
I missed it. Did he ask how 7 day GP services would be paid for?
No. He said it would cost £400m and the NHS budget each year was so many billion (I forget the figure he quoted) blah blah blah. No targeted follow up questioning like for say Ed Balls.

Osborne a genius? Maybe if he wants to be leader of the opposition.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-o ... eath/29351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cameron's figures don't add up.

A GP gets just over 44 pounds per hour. Cameron has given himself about 830,000 hours to fill, and you have to add the costs of running the building.

At best he is running a skeleton service with that funding. Plus with no extra GPs where are the staff coming from?

Most likely he is just running a paper thin service using existing staff and reducing availability in the week. So longer waits in the week and sweet FA chance of a weekend appointment.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:22 am

Julia Gillard has just been interviewed on Radio 4. Some brilliant observations on women's rights. She has written a book. Well worth reading I should think.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:42 am

yahyah wrote:
JackPranker wrote:Stumped. I've no idea where to go for news and comment, now. The Indy is as bad to view as the new beta version of the Grauniad! *harrumph*

Maybe that's what's next for FTN, a daily rolling news blog section with no comment, just links and headlines ?

Spotted the flaw though, no point in putting Guardian links if it's all Beta ****.

There's good work to be done skipping the lobby completely and going ourselves to the primary sources (as many here do already).

For example, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; publishes a dozen or two government reports every day.

Not all are interesting, but some are and if you have the time to delve into the spreadsheets etc. you can uncover some fascinating and little reported facts on education (as Roger, Tubby etc. do), health, benefits, environment (as RR2 knows well) and all the stuff we care about here. I would certainly welcome a thread where we list and evaluate these kinds of primary sources. Where should we be going for the best data on our "pet" topics?

And many here write well. There's no reason why we shouldn't do more of this.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:48 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
yahyah wrote:
JackPranker wrote:Stumped. I've no idea where to go for news and comment, now. The Indy is as bad to view as the new beta version of the Grauniad! *harrumph*

Maybe that's what's next for FTN, a daily rolling news blog section with no comment, just links and headlines ?

Spotted the flaw though, no point in putting Guardian links if it's all Beta ****.
There's good work to be done skipping the lobby completely and going ourselves to the primary sources (as many here do already).

For example, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; publishes a dozen or two government reports every day.

Not all are interesting, but some are and if you have the time to delve into the spreadsheets etc. you can uncover some fascinating and little reported facts on education (as Roger, Tubby etc. do), health, benefits, environment (as RR2 knows well) and all the stuff we care about here. I would certainly welcome a thread where we list and evaluate these kinds of primary sources. Where should we be going for the best data on our "pet" topics?

And many here write well. There's no reason why we shouldn't do more of this.

Excellent idea that Paul.

Post by **adam** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 10:49 am

On defections - one name regularly mentioned is Tory MEP Daniel Hannan, who has been insisting that he has no intention of jumping ship - one reason why this might well be true is that, if he were to follow the (right and proper) now-established precedent of resigning his seat to refight it, wouldn't his seat as an MEP simply be taken by the next person on the Tory list from the last European Parliamentary elections? I don't think the EP does by-elections at all.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:10 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
yahyah wrote:
JackPranker wrote:Stumped. I've no idea where to go for news and comment, now. The Indy is as bad to view as the new beta version of the Grauniad! *harrumph*

Maybe that's what's next for FTN, a daily rolling news blog section with no comment, just links and headlines ?

Spotted the flaw though, no point in putting Guardian links if it's all Beta ****.
There's good work to be done skipping the lobby completely and going ourselves to the primary sources (as many here do already).

For example, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; publishes a dozen or two government reports every day.

Not all are interesting, but some are and if you have the time to delve into the spreadsheets etc. you can uncover some fascinating and little reported facts on education (as Roger, Tubby etc. do), health, benefits, environment (as RR2 knows well) and all the stuff we care about here. I would certainly welcome a thread where we list and evaluate these kinds of primary sources. Where should we be going for the best data on our "pet" topics?

And many here write well. There's no reason why we shouldn't do more of this.

Nail. Head. That's what good journalism is all about. Or rather it should be.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:16 am

Rant warning.

Who are the stupid people who go to the tory conference? Do they listen to the speakers? I hear Osborne say working age benefits will be frozen because they shouldn't rise faster than wages. I hear a massive admission of failure. An admission that sickly economic growth has failed, and will fail, to improve wages for the majority. An admission that Labour are exactly right. What do they hear? They give him a standing ovation!

And then there's the 'long term economic plan'. Which is to eliminate the deficit by cutting taxes, regressively, and cutting public expenditure. That's it, a plan that would practically fit on a postage stamp, never mind the back of a fag packet. And there's 2 big problems with it: 1, the end doesn't justify the means and 2, there are no conceivable circumstances in which it would work.

And commentators who think that instead of cutting working age benefits we should hit pensioners, because the idea that, actually, we don't need to do either, is so far out from the consensus their brains might explode if they thought about it. Jon Snow offering up his effing bus pass, FFS.

Rant over.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:25 am

Not sure if this is true, but it just made me laugh:

Ken Clarke ''Ukip voters, elderly males who have had disappointing lives''

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:26 am

Not only is the Graun liveblog in sodding Beta again, but it isn't even working properly. AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:28 am

LOL Peter Bone - 'The conservative party is more united than ever'

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:29 am

Crosby, according to Paul Waugh told Tory candidates another MPs defection to UKIP was expected.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:30 am

Temulkar wrote:LOL Peter Bone - 'The conservative party is more united than ever'

They really must stop providing so much entertainment, I want to power-wash the drive FFS!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:32 am

Morning all
Re the Guardian
When you open the page (give it a sec or 2 to load) scroll down and look to the left, just where the 5 visible comments end. You will see a blue button saying "show comments" click that and they all load.
To use Bold, Italic or Link - open reply box and look to the right hand corner, at the bottom of the box. You will see the small box with all three options. Its very small, very pale, but its there.
HTH

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:34 am

Andrew Neil ''The culture secretary, his name is Sajid Javid, wants the BBC to do more with less, Mr Javid, if we did more with less we'd be paying you''

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:36 am

Matthew Parris ''if there was a good way to hit the rich I am sure the Chancellor would have done it'' Really?!

Neil. for a Tory is on fire at the moment.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:40 am

Theresa May on now. By comparison with all the others she's actually a class act. Shame (for the Conservatives in general) she was preceded by and introduced by a speaker who made (tacit) favourable reference to the Human Rights Act (re Stop and Search)! She's now moved onto speaking about terrorism.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:42 am

Morning.

On assumption the freezing of benefits continues on the same basis as the 1% cap.

"Disabled people exempt,nope he did it again"(and the press/media fall for it again)

http://loopys-rollingwiththepunches.blo ... id-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:45 am

Apologies -

Good morning.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:52 am

What did we do before the internet? Open everyone's letters? This always baffles me.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 11:59 am

Found this link on Titter.

http://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/fil ... report.pdf

There is a system of voluntary and compulsory benefit cards in Australia. It makes interesting reading. I've only skimmed it so far. This jumped out.

Income management is not necessarily seen as an appropriate
response to neglect with financial management not always being an Executive Summary
xxi
important feature of families where children are neglected. Other issues
such as substance misuse and domestic violence are often assessed
as more pressing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:What did we do before the internet? Open everyone's letters? This always baffles me.

That happened a fair bit, yes.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:11 pm

PorFavor wrote:What did we do before the internet? Open everyone's letters? This always baffles me.

Well a lot more people had jobs, because everything took so much longer to do. Knowledge tended to reside with individuals who knew stuff. Where I worked we had shelves of journals and technical publications. You had to travel more to meet people because it was the only real way to pick up knowledge.

These days I can take a piece of technology I know very little about and be a semi expert in two weeks. Back in the day it would take 2 years.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:What did we do before the internet? Open everyone's letters? This always baffles me.
That happened a fair bit, yes.

I'm aware that that happened in certain periods of history - but in (say) the 1970s? I'd have thought that the sheer scale of the job would be a limiter. It must have had to be very targeted, surely (in both cases, actually - in the first because it was easier to target and in the second because it was necessary since not targeting would render the task too vast). If you follow my meaning . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:37 pm

Boris Johnson boring the paisley pyjamas off me at present. But the assembled are loving it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 12:41 pm

Was reminded of Maria Hutchings just now.

Google image search her. You won't believe how many top Tories seem to have visited her constituency for the by-election.

I noticed Cameron, Osborne, May, Johnson, Pickles, Shapps, Grayling.

And still they came 3rd.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:10 pm

Matthew Parris said he expects another defection just before or just after Dave's speech.

I can't see it myself; it would have to be someone who absolutely loathes Cameron to inflict that.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:11 pm

Temulkar wrote:Matthew Parris said he expects another defection just before or just after Dave's speech.

I can't see it myself; it would have to be someone who absolutely loathes Cameron to inflict that.

To be fair though, there are quite a few who do.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:16 pm

I see Theresa May's plans are already running into possible legal problems. I wondered how long it would take. She doesn't seem to be able to help herself, does she?

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:20 pm

'Ello. I remember when all this was nowt but Red bits, and now we seem to have gone blue.

So I had been enjoying sparring with Kippers and Cybernats for a while, but now that Beta has kicked in, I am completely unable to see any comments at all. I feel for Andrew, who's going to a lose a few of his regulars to this; those who didn't leave after the Nesting fiasco, but a man's gotta find his political venting somewhere.

So, it;s not been a quiet conference season, has it? I reckon Cameron's playing Good Cop Bad Cop with Osborne, and is set to raise the LEL to 10.5K, which will absorb the hit to working age benefits for working people whilst enabling him to keep to his "strivers v shirkers" narrative.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:26 pm

Just a reminder to Labour supporters, particularly those upset by media bias, it is offical party policy to support the Morning Star. However hardly anyone does, which is why our media is small and ignored, while the enemy's media is large and powerful.

Buy and support the Morning Star and we will be harder to ignore. More support means better website with commenting, bigger printed edition, more content etc, etc.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:28 pm

DonutHingeParty wrote:'Ello. I remember when all this was nowt but Red bits, and now we seem to have gone blue.

So I had been enjoying sparring with Kippers and Cybernats for a while, but now that Beta has kicked in, I am completely unable to see any comments at all. I feel for Andrew, who's going to a lose a few of his regulars to this; those who didn't leave after the Nesting fiasco, but a man's gotta find his political venting somewhere.

So, it;s not been a quiet conference season, has it? I reckon Cameron's playing Good Cop Bad Cop with Osborne, and is set to raise the LEL to 10.5K, which will absorb the hit to working age benefits for working people whilst enabling him to keep to his "strivers v shirkers" narrative.

Hi DHP - nice to see you here. Do feel free to invite any other refugees from the Graun over to here. For a start, there ain't no trolls, and the modding's actually informed by common sense.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:32 pm

mikems wrote:Just a reminder to Labour supporters, particularly those upset by media bias, it is offical party policy to support the Morning Star. However hardly anyone does, which is why our media is small and ignored, while the enemy's media is large and powerful.

Buy and support the Morning Star and we will be harder to ignore. More support means better website with commenting, bigger printed edition, more content etc, etc.

And, what's more, it's frequently a very good read. Can be a bit Dave Spart at times, but much of the analysis and comment is tip top. Can't really say much about the horse racing coverage, for obvious reasons.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 30 Sep, 2014 1:38 pm

Spammers are multiplying again, none this morning, around 20 now, our own version of trolls.