Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

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refitman
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Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
HindleA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/244329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Over four million.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by Willow904 »

The attempts by leave campaigners to discredit the revoke petition are really rather desperate and pathetic. There were, after all, over 16m eligible voters who voted for remain in the referendum. That a good chunk of them haven't changed their minds in the face of the absolute debacle that has ensued is really not surprising. That those advocating we should leave the EU, with no stronger argument than that it's the "will of the people", should be made so uncomfortable by a reminder of the continued existence of the 16m who didn't vote for it is very telling. They have no convincing narrative to persuade the sceptical to their cause so instead they try to pretend they don't even exist. This is not an approach that is going to bring the nation together any time soon.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Its pretty much their own equivalent of "Russian bots!!!" The irony, indeed :D
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Over four million.
We could, for once, do with a blast of Nigel Farage and Mark Francois to keep up the momentum.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

4.18 million signatures - a new record since these petitions were set up. Though the seat by seat totals seem to have been disabled for now.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

The UK Supreme Court's rulings against UK government regarding unhealthy pollution levels in about a dozen places within the UK hasn't compelled UK government to do more than draft useless reports while the air remains polluted.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by gilsey »

One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:4.18 million signatures - a new record since these petitions were set up. Though the seat by seat totals seem to have been disabled for now.
No doubt Andrea Leadsom is still sneering. Odd that, since it's a government site set up to facilitate such expressions of public opinion. Stupid woman.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Current Tory government are disastrous for most people.
It's been a painful decade.
I'll remember Tory leadership providing nothing but chronic stress.
I'd have liked some years of peace.
It's a beautiful country, the UK.
It's my only home.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Whether or not you are in favour of a second referendum, many people who are unhappy with the position in which we find ourselves will, I would guess, have sympathy with the following -
Matt Sears sent a message to the Guardian saying he cannot attend the march but wants his voice to be heard so he has used the number 10 contact form and encourages others to do the same.

Here is his message:

I cannot march but I am writing to express my dismay at the position our country is now in and to ask you to do something about it. Ken Clarke is right that referenda are generally a bad idea, especially when concerned with complicated matters. It is clear that people voted leave for a number of reasons and any alternatives are numerous and disparate. Failure to set a proper margin for victory or ask anything beyond a binary question in the referendum has left the country deeply divided. Despite this, you seem to have decided that you alone know what those 17m people voted for. A cross-party approach to Brexit was the chance to heal the divisions yet you have failed to properly consult and collaborate with parliament in a timely fashion. This has led to the country facing a Hobson’s choice of your deal or no deal. We live in a parliamentary democracy yet both these outcomes have been rejected by parliament. I urge you to respect democracy, change position and avert disaster. Thank you. (Guardian - my emphasis))


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ve-updates

There's a link (ref bolded bit above) to the No 10 contact form over at the Guardian site - should anyone wish to avail themselves of it-_ @13.18.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its pretty much their own equivalent of "Russian bots!!!" The irony, indeed :D
Except Russian bot propaganda promoting both Brexit and Trump is backed up by credible evidence, of course.
Not only is there no credible evidence for any large scale attempt to rig the revoke petition, there's no motive. Russia would be happy to see the EU broken up, and their access to tax havens via the City of London distanced from EU oversight, so why would they game a petition lobbying for the opposite?
The reason Russia is being fingered by Farage is precisely so people will rubbish it (because it's rubbish) in order to bolster the impression that Russian interference in favour of Brexit is also rubbish. Except of course it isn't.

Farage is still a person of interest in the Mueller investigation, I believe. And it has come to light that Mark Zuckerberg has been less than truthful about his knowledge of the activities of Cambridge Analytica. If there is any "collusion" with Russia over Brexit, it's all on the leave side.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its pretty much their own equivalent of "Russian bots!!!" The irony, indeed :D
Except Russian bot propaganda promoting both Brexit and Trump is backed up by credible evidence, of course.
It was not *the* cause of either. And it looks like Mueller's report is going to be a bit of a cold bath for those who blame Russia for everything, too.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

...[Department for Exiting the European Union] DExEU figures are complicated by the fact that many employees are transferred from other departments. Some of these transfers are not yet officially reported under DExEU but under their old departments...
Seven departments – Department for International Development (DfID), Cabinet Office (CO), [Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport] DCMS, [Department for Transport] DfT, [Department for Education] DfE, the Treasury, and the Home Office – have seen the numbers of civil servants rise since 2010.

The Cabinet Office and [Department for International Development] DfID have around 70% more staff than in 2010, with numbers increasing by 60% at DCMS, over 25% at DfE and DfT, 10% at the Treasury and 3% at the Home Office.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I cannot march but I am writing to express my dismay at the position our country is now in and to ask you to do something about it. Ken Clarke is right that referenda are generally a bad idea, especially when concerned with complicated matters. It is clear that people voted leave for a number of reasons and any alternatives are numerous and disparate. Failure to set a proper margin for victory or ask anything beyond a binary question in the referendum has left the country deeply divided. Despite this, you seem to have decided that you alone know what those 17m people voted for. A cross-party approach to Brexit was the chance to heal the divisions yet you have failed to properly consult and collaborate with parliament in a timely fashion. This has led to the country facing a Hobson’s choice of your deal or no deal. We live in a parliamentary democracy yet both these outcomes have been rejected by parliament. I urge you to respect democracy, change position and avert disaster. Thank you.
(cJA edit)
Good message, I like that
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Who wrote that?
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Who wrote that?

Someone named Matt Sears.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

oops
I should've included Matt Sears name in my edit
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

citizenJA wrote:oops
I should've included Matt Sears name in my edit
And there he was, thinking he was famous!
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

There's a great picture over at the Guardian (the British Tits poster one @14.56. I'm incapable of doing a "screenshot" of it - despite refitman's perfectly fine instructions because well, I'm useless at anything that requires any sort of computer nous). I'm trying to cadge a favour, in case you hadn't guessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ve-updates
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 23 Mar, 2019 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its pretty much their own equivalent of "Russian bots!!!" The irony, indeed :D
Except Russian bot propaganda promoting both Brexit and Trump is backed up by credible evidence, of course.
It was not *the* cause of either. And it looks like Mueller's report is going to be a bit of a cold bath for those who blame Russia for everything, too.

The point isn't what caused leave, as with all votes there are lots of causes. The point is whether illegal activity and foreign influence had enough impact to change the outcome. Which in a tight result can sometimes be quite a small number of votes and we know the reach of the Russian bots which were amplifying leave and Trump campaigns runs into the millions.

Oh and the Clinton emails story almost certainly made a difference to Trump being elected and the connection between Farage, the Russians, Trump and Julian Assange is almost certainly why Farage is a person of interest. No one is "blaming Russia for everything". They are saying that some British leaders of the leave campaigns and some American campaigners of Trump colluded with the Russians to influence the votes in ways that break the laws of our countries. The reason these things need to be taken seriously (and why Farage's attempt to get remain supporters to dismiss them is dangerous) is not to change the past, but to ensure wrongdoers are made an example of and electoral laws are tightened up and improved to prevent such interference from happening again.
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Did I edit that? I'm mystified.
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refitman
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by refitman »

PorFavor wrote:There's a great picture over at the Guardian (the British Tits poster one @14.56. I'm incapable of doing a "screenshot" of it - despite refitman's perfectly fine instructions because well, I'm useless at anything that requires any sort of computer nous). I'm trying to cadge a favour, in case you hadn't guessed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ve-updates
This one?
Image
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

@refitman

Yes, that's the one. Thanks very much!
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Dan Sabbagh

@dansabbagh

David Lammy: "Are you listening Theresa May...are you listening Jeremy Corbyn" before asking the crowd to shout "they lied" again and again after reciting the names Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage and Theresa May. It's stonking speech...
3
3:49 PM - Mar 23, 2019 (Guardian)
I expect it will appear on Youtube in due course, but I can't find anything yet - I'm probably being a bit previous.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

David Lammy is becoming a bit of a star. I'm forced to keep overlooking his various Miliband transgressions.



Edited - typo
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

4.5 million up, and seat by seat totals again available :)
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

What is it with these people?
Sarah Vine
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Follow Follow @WestminsterWAG
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Replying to @Peston
There are no leavers there because they would be lynched. These people are so convinced of their righteousness they cannot see anyone who disagrees with them as anything other than a monster. The rhetoric against people who voted to Leave characterises them as sub-human.

3:38 PM - 23 Mar 2019
:roll:
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

RogerOThornhill wrote:What is it with these people?
Sarah Vine
‏@WestminsterWAG
Follow Follow @WestminsterWAG
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Replying to @Peston
There are no leavers there because they would be lynched. These people are so convinced of their righteousness they cannot see anyone who disagrees with them as anything other than a monster. The rhetoric against people who voted to Leave characterises them as sub-human.

3:38 PM - 23 Mar 2019
:roll:

The only unsettling (to put it mildly and diplomatically) utterences and actions have come from apoplectic "Brexiters". The "Remain" camp has been commendably pacifistic.

Edited to add - note that lynching is apparently the first thing that comes to the mind of the well-known leaver, Sarah Vine.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Margaret Georgiadou, the “frustrated remainer” behind the petition to revoke article 50 has received a string of death threats over her challenge to the Brexit process. (Guardian)
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://inews.co.uk/news/real-life/man- ... MhTmtaoIRI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Visual highlights from the Put it to the People anti-Brexit demonstration in London (Guardian)
My favourite from this gallery is the blue and yellow pie chart thingy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ga ... rch-brexit
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

As Tory MPs plot May’s downfall, her last allies battle for her survival

Holed up in Chequers this weekend, the PM has few moves left to ensure her continuation in power – or the relevance of her deal(Observer)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-end-days
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

Petition currently at 4,709,500
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by PorFavor »

@citizenJA

Night night.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://socialcarefuture.blog/2018/03/2 ... lness/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

We can be forgiven for feeling pretty gloomy when, as a society, we are in effect seeing it as a problem that older people are living longer and younger people with complex health needs are surviving….effectively blaming people for being a burden to the public purse instead of celebrating life. "

Has self-directed support gone out of fashion without even getting to a first base in reality? I wanted to respond that it was never a fad, but rather the right way forward for people using social care and the only serious contender that makes economic sense"

We can’t allow ourselves to say “It can’t be done” “they won’t let us” “there’s no money”. We can’t do that because it’s our lives and those of the people that we love that are on the line. We are disabled people, family members of older and disabled people, committed supporters of people society too-often excludes. "
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

But carry on with the burdensome immoral fuckwittery.How "care burden" is even accepted as a phrase is beyond my comprehension.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

"How has it come to this? Theresa May and her husband, Philip, have long been friends of mine and I have in the past admired her sense of duty and commitment to her party and her country. So it grieves me that her stubborn choices have left both in peril."

- Dr Phillip Lee
Conservative MP for Bracknell


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... exit-phase" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
she's been like this her whole career, dude
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

I am afraid I disagree on above,some of anti Leave stuff has been vile,not least on here ,particularly targeted on the North East.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

It doesn't help a case to utlilse stereptypical easy fit nastiness and pretend it is only "one way".
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Do you have an example illustrating this
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

If you don't accept it exists,rather akin to the no anti semitism in Labour mysterious exemption delusion.
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by HindleA »

A regular left for that reason.Sky's posts are rarely without,which is fair enough as long as I can point it out.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th March 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Is there something posted here offensive and derogatory towards Leave voters?
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