Tuesday 9th April 2019

Post by **refitman** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 7:04 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 8:12 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course cutting cost saving allowance er cost more,this is basic stuff.Historical amnesia abounds,in truth the past rewritten and belief in their own bullshit.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 8:21 am

Various aspects of stupidity and fundamental neglect to be kind They then,having engendered "the problem ",engineered pernicious effects praise themselves for failing to cut it as they delightedly voted for.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 9:08 am

Morning all.

Lewis Goodall
‏
Verified account

@lewis_goodall
20m20 minutes ago
More
Must say I rather enjoyed David Gauke’s transition from talking about Brexit and why a second referendum would be divisive to talking about the need to change divorce laws so there’s a six month cooling off period where minds could be changed. #r4today

I see what you did there.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 9:26 am

Michael Rosen has been coming out with some great stuff over the past day or so on Facebook...

Michael Rosen
18 hrs ·
Boris Johnson proves the rule
that no MP can be a fool.
Any of us could easily forget
we owned a house in Somerset.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 9:29 am

From the Groan, with my emphasis so PorFavor can avoid.

12pm: Cabinet ministers Matt Hancock, Penny Mordaunt and Michael Gove, and Tom Tugendhat, chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee, speak at the launch of a report from the thinktank Onward on the age gap in politics. Given the line-up, it is being seen a effectively a hustings for the forthcoming Tory leadership contest.

12pm: Tory Brexiters Mark Francois, Andrew Bridgen and Anne Marie Morris speak at a Bruges Group event headed “No delay, no capitulation - no deal”. (Note: this is not seen by lobby journalists as a parade of leadership contenders.)

Afternoon: MPs will debate a government motion saying the PM should seek an article 50 extension lasting until 30 June. This debate is taking place because of the Yvette Cooper bill that received royal assent last night.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 9:44 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ays-berlin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

conditions-for-short-brexit-delay-have-not-been-met-says-berlin

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 9:49 am

Heard about this the other day.

Belgian Ofsted boss Daniel Muijs denied ‘settled status’ after Brexit

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/belg ... b3a15ffe5e

Daniel Muijs, originally from Antwerp, is a deputy director at the education watchdog and has held posts at six universities since moving here in 1997. He described it as “not a good feeling” to be told that his application for settled status could not be approved because he has to provide further evidence of his residence in the UK.

Dr Muijs, 50, said that he had already provided his national insurance number, which will show that he has paid tax for 22 years, but must now track down P60 forms and council tax bills covering the past six years to remain in Britain under the EU settlement scheme.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 11:05 am

Interesting thread on why Cooper Letwin has changed little in a legal sense

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though it may have had a big impact politically.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 11:07 am

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 61256.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit: Theresa May must produce plan within 24 hours if she wants Article 50 extension, EU warns

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 11:39 am

This was around last night as a reminder to Brexiters who idolise Mrs T...

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:27 pm

I don't usually go for this gossip stuff

but nobody met her!

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:31 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I don't usually go for this gossip stuff but nobody met her!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"That Theresa Whatsername's just arrived."

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:31 pm

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:38 pm

Apropos of nothing -

Mark François's middle name (I've just discovered) is Gino!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:45 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 61256.html

Brexit: Theresa May must produce plan within 24 hours if she wants Article 50 extension, EU warns

I suspect the definition of "plan" may be a tad generous here.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:48 pm

PorFavor wrote:Apropos of nothing -

Mark François's middle name (I've just discovered) is Gino!

Is that like Lino....struggling with what G could stand for

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:50 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:55 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:This was around last night as a reminder to Brexiters who idolise Mrs T...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As with Reagan in the US, she has been mythologised by her "followers" to a ridiculous extent.

Both were committed ideologues, but also had a keen sense of what was politically possible and were prepared to be pragmatic when needed.

(when Thatcher forgot this over the poll tax, it did for her)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 12:55 pm

Confused forsaking Minorca, spurning the EU (4,4,8).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:00 pm

Gammon In Name Only

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:02 pm

Jessica Elgot
‏@jessicaelgot

New - John McDonnell tells us the agenda for talks this afternoon includes
- Single market alignment
- Customs union
- workers rights/environment
- legal lock to prevent unpicking by future Tory leader
- possible second ref

Starting now and all set to finish by 5.30

Good luck!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:11 pm

Anyone have any idea of what's going on with government?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:27 pm

I saw that Andrew Lilico was trending so had a look.

Andrew Lilico
‏

@andrew_lilico
Follow Follow @andrew_lilico
More Andrew Lilico Retweeted Andrew Lilico
If the Monarchy cannot even intervene, one way or another, in a matter such as the Cooper-Letwin Bill, it is absurd to believe it cld stand up against an elected Communist or Fascist Parliament. Our monarchy has demonstrated itself no longer fit for purpose, alas.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:31 pm

Why does he presume that, even if it were feasible, the monarch would "intervene" re Brexit in the way he wants?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:38 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Jessica Elgot
‏@jessicaelgot

New - John McDonnell tells us the agenda for talks this afternoon includes
- Single market alignment
- Customs union
- workers rights/environment
- legal lock to prevent unpicking by future Tory leader
- possible second ref

Starting now and all set to finish by 5.30

Good luck!

Thank you, John McDonnell

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 1:48 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why does he presume that, even if it were feasible, the monarch would "intervene" re Brexit in the way he wants?

Does Lilico ever think things through?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:08 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Jessica Elgot
‏@jessicaelgot

New - John McDonnell tells us the agenda for talks this afternoon includes
- Single market alignment
- Customs union
- workers rights/environment
- legal lock to prevent unpicking by future Tory leader
- possible second ref

Starting now and all set to finish by 5.30

Good luck!
Thank you, John McDonnell

I wonder how different it will be without May in the room?!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why does he presume that, even if it were feasible, the monarch would "intervene" re Brexit in the way he wants?
Does Lilico ever think things through?

Is that a QTWTAIN?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:10 pm

citizenJA wrote:Anyone have any idea of what's going on with government?

As Angela Merkel said to Theresa May . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:23 pm

This week's best-kept secret -

The topic of RogerOThornhill's talk last night. I did ask, but no answer came the stern reply. Anyway, how did it go?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:33 pm

citizenJA wrote:Anyone have any idea of what's going on with government?

Government? What government?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:48 pm

I expect most have already seen Oborne's u-turn, there's a piece about it in the G
What makes somebody change their mind about Brexit?

Love this last line.

What’s so surprising is that when we do actually change our minds, we often start to think that we thought this way all along.

If we end up cancelling brexit, there's going to be a lot of that about.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 2:49 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I saw that Andrew Lilico was trending so had a look.

Andrew Lilico
‏

@andrew_lilico
Follow Follow @andrew_lilico
More Andrew Lilico Retweeted Andrew Lilico
If the Monarchy cannot even intervene, one way or another, in a matter such as the Cooper-Letwin Bill, it is absurd to believe it cld stand up against an elected Communist or Fascist Parliament. Our monarchy has demonstrated itself no longer fit for purpose, alas.

Could use this, in some clever way, to win round some of the "Sovereignty Brexiters". They love the Quing and will probably take exception to this.

Post by **adam** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 3:00 pm

I think we need to start referring to Marc François thus (and pronouncing his middle name with a soft 'G', obviously)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 3:43 pm

There is so-called rain literally falling from the sky here. I assume that it will stop, going forward, unless we reach some sort of weather impasse. Clearly.

Post by **adam** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 4:23 pm

"This is an ex Brexit. It's dead."
"It's not dead, it's probably just pining for the sunlit uplands."
"It's definitely dead"
"It's not dead. It's compromising".

(stolen from someone btl at the guardian)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 4:28 pm

Barnstorming speech from Stephen Gethins in the House.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 4:29 pm

adam wrote:"This is an ex Brexit. It's dead."
"It's not dead, it's probably just pining for the sunlit uplands."
"It's definitely dead"
"It's not dead. It's compromising".

(stolen from someone btl at the guardian)

Tim Loughton is complaining of a "conspiracy of chaos" obstructing Brexit

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 5:26 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Barnstorming speech from Stephen Gethins in the House.

He will need all the kudos he can get, with a two (yes, 2) vote majority in his seat.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 5:26 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Interesting thread on why Cooper Letwin has changed little in a legal sense

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

though it may have had a big impact politically.

Jolyon Maugham wrote about these limitations a week ago. I questioned his analysis after having read it. The evidence suggests he's correct about this unless I've misunderstood.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 5:28 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
adam wrote:"This is an ex Brexit. It's dead."
"It's not dead, it's probably just pining for the sunlit uplands."
"It's definitely dead"
"It's not dead. It's compromising".

(stolen from someone btl at the guardian)
Tim Loughton is complaining of a "conspiracy of chaos" obstructing Brexit

The Guardian keeps quoting Tim Loughton as having said "wreck havoc". Did he really say that - or is it being mis-reported\misspelt? I didn't hear him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 5:54 pm

It's been altered now.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:01 pm

Theresa May has won the vote on requesting an article 50 extension until 30 June by 420 votes to 110 - a majority of 310.

If someone could explain the point of this I'd be very grateful. Parliament has already rejected the opportunity for a short extension to ratify the WA. We'll need a much longer extension to do something other than pass May's deal, so why are MPs endorsing May's boneheaded plan of pursuing the same futile strategy all over again?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:36 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Theresa May has won the vote on requesting an article 50 extension until 30 June by 420 votes to 110 - a majority of 310.
If someone could explain the point of this I'd be very grateful. Parliament has already rejected the opportunity for a short extension to ratify the WA. We'll need a much longer extension to do something other than pass May's deal, so why are MPs endorsing May's boneheaded plan of pursuing the same futile strategy all over again?

I don't know. I've been paying attention but most of it doesn't make any sense.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:38 pm

Will the UK participate in EU elections?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:41 pm

May won the vote with majority opposition support. Only 31% of her votes - less than a third - came from Conservative MPs.

The Tories split three ways, and fairly evenly, in this division. Some 42% of Tory MPs voted with the government, another 30% voted against, and the rest did not vote.

In a further sign that government discipline is breaking down, 12 ministers did not vote with the government, including Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, and Liam Fox, the international trade secretary.

Jeremy Corbyn has kept his party united on this issue. Only three Labour MPs defied the whip to vote with the government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 46f07ec0c6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DUP voted against it too

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:43 pm

citizenJA wrote:Will the UK participate in EU elections?

That seems highly likely.

I too am losing touch with what is happening, but I think:

1. The EU needs there to be a new approach - i.e. there needs to be something to show from the talks with Labour
2. Then May will request a "flextension" until 30 June.
3. The EU will probably grant a longer "flextension".
4. A requirement will be that we hold the elections.

That would allow us to leave before May 23rd and call off the elections, but that seems almost impossible.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:44 pm

May needed to win something. I don't think it matters what. Good lord - the thought of May crossing the floor and joining the Labour party just occurred to me. I'll try to remain open-minded.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 6:47 pm

Jon Stone
‏@joncstone
12 seconds ago

Ahead of Brexit summit:

- Tusk says June extension not long enough
- Capitals seem OK with delay until 2020
- But some say May needs a plan
- Leaked draft conclusions loaded with "DONT FUCK WITH US DURING THE EXTENSION” clauses in response to Rees-Mogg

PTO!