Thursday 13th June 2019

Post by **refitman** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 7:03 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 7:14 am

Morning

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Universal credit delays a factor in sex work, government accepts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 7:16 am

"Donna Ward, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) senior civil servant responsible for children, families and disadvantage, told the committee chair, Frank Field, that it had fact-checked Alston’s report, which had in passing referred to a rise in survival sex.

“He made a lot of good points. It was factually correct,"

Post by **adam** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 8:37 am

From last night...

RogerOThornhill wrote:This may have been answered already but does the PM have the power to suspend Parliament?

I would have thought that was in the hands of the Speaker.

I think it's in the hands of the Queen.

Edited to add- which means it's probably in the hands of the Prime Minister, to all intents and purposes, because it would be quite something for the monarch to reject the advice of the PM. I have no idea what she thinks about all of this but I suppose constitutionally it's possible that before parliament could be prorogued Labour would have an opportunity to table a no confidence motion and she might decide it would be a lesser constitutional outrage to let that run its course before she took the PM's advice.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 9:14 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ver-letwin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

parliament-is-out-of-options-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-tory-mp-oliver-letwin

Apart from a vote of no confidence. Letwin seems to think Tory MPs would rather let us crash out of the EU than risk an election. I wonder.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 9:18 am

adam wrote:From last night...

RogerOThornhill wrote:This may have been answered already but does the PM have the power to suspend Parliament?

I would have thought that was in the hands of the Speaker.
I think it's in the hands of the Queen.

Edited to add- which means it's probably in the hands of the Prime Minister, to all intents and purposes, because it would be quite something for the monarch to reject the advice of the PM. I have no idea what she thinks about all of this but I suppose constitutionally it's possible that before parliament could be prorogued Labour would have an opportunity to table a no confidence motion and she might decide it would be a lesser constitutional outrage to let that run its course before she took the PM's advice.

And if asked she might be able to say "You're elected only by party members and leading a minority government. GE instead please"

Obviously cabinet secretary would be in communication to palace officials. Nod and a wink and all that...

Post by **adam** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 9:28 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
adam wrote:From last night...

RogerOThornhill wrote:This may have been answered already but does the PM have the power to suspend Parliament?

I would have thought that was in the hands of the Speaker.
I think it's in the hands of the Queen.

Edited to add- which means it's probably in the hands of the Prime Minister, to all intents and purposes, because it would be quite something for the monarch to reject the advice of the PM. I have no idea what she thinks about all of this but I suppose constitutionally it's possible that before parliament could be prorogued Labour would have an opportunity to table a no confidence motion and she might decide it would be a lesser constitutional outrage to let that run its course before she took the PM's advice.
And if asked she might be able to say "You're elected only by party members and leading a minority government. GE instead please"

Obviously cabinet secretary would be in communication to palace officials. Nod and a wink and all that...

Vernon Bogdanor, in an article that descends into silliness by suggestion that the EU will allow a NI backstop that is time limited or that we can choose to end, suggests that if she was asked she would probably want to take soundings from the leaders of opposition parties before deciding. The issue will become whether, if a confidence vote had been won by the government (and there's a hope that it wouldn't be but I'll believe it when I see it) the palace would have the nerve to say no. We can only hope.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 9:45 am

One can but hope...

Philip Cowley
@philipjcowley
If I was a Conservative MP, I'm fairly certain by now I'd have pledged my support to Boris Johnson - because he'll probably win and I want a job - but I doubt I'd actually vote for him.

I am a shit, yes, but then the parliamentary party contains a fair few of them.
9:41 AM · Jun 12, 2019 · Twitter for Android

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:07 am

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most help-to-buy recipients could already afford a home

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/help-to-b ... ss-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:12 am

This morning's Barclaygraph front page would genuinely not be out of place in N Korea.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:15 am

https://www.lgo.org.uk/information-cent ... on-council" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:16 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ver-letwin

parliament-is-out-of-options-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-tory-mp-oliver-letwin

Apart from a vote of no confidence. Letwin seems to think Tory MPs would rather let us crash out of the EU than risk an election. I wonder.

Tory MPs seem to have lost all perspective, how are they going to win an election after we've left with no deal? Do they think there'll be a long enough gap before the shit hits the fan for a GE they could win? Then they'd have to manage the consequences anyway. They're mad.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:17 am

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:29 am

"he can lift your heart"?

More like "he can turn your stomach"!

Post by **adam** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:53 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:"he can lift your heart"?

More like "he can turn your stomach"!

'He can lift your heart' - 'And you might want to watch your pockets too. And your wife.'

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:17 am

This isn't a good look...

Turning back to Sajid Javid and the decision not to invite him to the Trump state banquet (see 9.37am), Jacqui Smith, who was home secretary for two years under Labour, says she was always invited to state banquets. Javid says he was told by Number 10 that home secretaries normally aren’t on the guest list.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:19 am

This is very good.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The call for politics to replace law and process is accordingly a denial of reality, it's wishing on a star for the world as it exists for medium sized countries like the UK to simply be different from that which it is.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:22 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:This isn't a good look...

Turning back to Sajid Javid and the decision not to invite him to the Trump state banquet (see 9.37am), Jacqui Smith, who was home secretary for two years under Labour, says she was always invited to state banquets. Javid says he was told by Number 10 that home secretaries normally aren’t on the guest list.

They've known that from the beginning and I originally assumed they'd got Javid onside with it, now clear that wasn't the case. It really stinks. Comes down, again, to May recklessly promising a state visit in the first place.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 12:27 pm

gilsey wrote:This is very good.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The call for politics to replace law and process is accordingly a denial of reality, it's wishing on a star for the world as it exists for medium sized countries like the UK to simply be different from that which it is.

That is quite true, but for other things the opposite is the case.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 12:49 pm

Have we seen this?

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1139 ... 02049.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a story about the time, late in 2016, that Johnson told the EU’s ambassadors in London that he was in favour of free movement of people. I know he did this, because they told me.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 1:06 pm

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ver-letwin

parliament-is-out-of-options-to-stop-no-deal-brexit-tory-mp-oliver-letwin

Apart from a vote of no confidence. Letwin seems to think Tory MPs would rather let us crash out of the EU than risk an election. I wonder.
Tory MPs seem to have lost all perspective, how are they going to win an election after we've left with no deal? Do they think there'll be a long enough gap before the shit hits the fan for a GE they could win? Then they'd have to manage the consequences anyway. They're mad.

A lot of them seem to think its all some sort of rerun of WW2, so f*** knows.

Post by **adam** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 1:07 pm

Big win for Johnson.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 1:08 pm

All 313 Tory MPs voted, she says. There were no spoilt ballot papers.

Boris Johnson - 114

Jeremy Hunt - 43

Michael Gove - 37

Dominic Raab - 27

Sajid Javid - 23

Matt Hancock - 20

Rory Stewart - 19

Gone

Mark Harper - 10

Esther McVey - 9

Andrea Leadsom - 11

Post by **adam** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 1:09 pm

Harper / Leadsome / McVey eliminated, bottom three with McVey last.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:03 pm

Hugo Rifkind
@hugorifkind
·
48m
The fact that the world contains 9 whole people who think Esther McVey should be Prime Minister is obviously shocking enough, but the coincidence of them all already being Tory MPs is little short of remarkable.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:12 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ld-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:14 pm

"The little known policy – no recourse to public funds (NRPF)– was introduced by Theresa May in 2012 when she was home secretary. It not only denies benefits and support to those the Home Office wants to return to their home countries, but even to some people who are granted permission to live and work in the UK."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tudy-finds" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The data showed that two hours was the threshold for positive impacts: spending much more than that in natural environments did not appear to have any additional benefits.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:40 pm

Esther McVey dead last - I would be lying if I claimed that didn't raise a smile.

(behind Mark "who?" Harper even)

Also confirms conclusively that Leadsom blew her only chance in 2016.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 2:53 pm

adam wrote:Harper / Leadsome / McVey eliminated, bottom three with McVey last.

Somehow I don't feel able to object on feminist grounds.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 3:47 pm

gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:Harper / Leadsome / McVey eliminated, bottom three with McVey last.
Somehow I don't feel able to object on feminist grounds.

I'm not sure. Should Raab not be in the same group of talentless individuals?

And if he didn't have his privileged upbringing and was female I think Johnson would be right there with McVey.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 5:51 pm

gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:Harper / Leadsome / McVey eliminated, bottom three with McVey last.
Somehow I don't feel able to object on feminist grounds.

All I notice is they're Tory MPs.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 5:51 pm

Good evening, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 6:14 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tudy-finds

The data showed that two hours was the threshold for positive impacts: spending much more than that in natural environments did not appear to have any additional benefits.

One explanation for our findings might be that time spent in nature is a proxy for physical activity, and it is this which is driving the relationship, not nature contact per se. In England, for instance, over 3 million adults achieve recommended activity levels fully, or in part, in natural settings. Although: (a) we tried to control for this by including physical activity over the last 7 days in our models; and (b) the threshold applied to individuals who did not meet activity guidelines; we were unable to fully untangle these issues.

Experimental research, however, indicates that some benefits cannot be due solely to physical activity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44097-3#Sec7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting study

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:16 pm

Well.

Chuka Umunna
@ChukaUmunna
I’m delighted to say I’ve joined the ⁦@LibDems!⁩ - here’s my joint interview with ⁦
@vincecable⁩ in ⁦tmr’s ⁦@thetimes⁩ where I explain why

Post by **refitman** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:10 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well.

Chuka Umunna
@ChukaUmunna
I’m delighted to say I’ve joined the ⁦@LibDems!⁩ - here’s my joint interview with ⁦
@vincecable⁩ in ⁦tmr’s ⁦@thetimes⁩ where I explain why

LDV are surprisingly chipper about it, especially when you consider the leaked memo.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:14 pm

The former prime minister, speaking at Chatham House, said: “When you have people suggesting that you prorogue parliament because parliament may take a different view from a particular faction in the House of Commons you are heading in very dangerous territory.

“When you look back at British history, you cannot image Disraeli, Gladstone, Churchill or Thatcher, even in their most difficult period, saying ‘let us put parliament aside while I carry through this difficult policy’ … it is fundamentally unconstitutional … and to hear that argument come from the people who in the Brexit debate talked about parliamentary sovereignty being at stake, it is not just fundamentally distasteful, it is hypocrisy on a gold-plated standard.”

He added: “I don’t think that can possibly be allowed to stand. I don’t think the House of Commons will allow it to stand.

Quite.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:40 pm

I know I talk a lot of crap on here and can usually be safely ignored but just this once, this one single time, take my advice and if you didn't watch Question Time tonight go and seek it out on the IPlayer and watch Francesca Martinez's first contribution. It was one of the finest bits of political television I've ever seen.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:44 pm

Stapleford South East (Broxtowe) result:

LDEM: 44.3% (+19.8)
CON: 30.1% (-0.3)
LAB: 25.5% (-2.9)

No Stapleford Alliance (-16.6) as prev.

Liberal Democrat GAIN (X2) from Conservative.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 13 Jun, 2019 11:45 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:I know I talk a lot of crap on here and can usually be safely ignored but just this once, this one single time, take my advice and if you didn't watch Question Time tonight go and seek it out on the IPlayer and watch Francesca Martinez's first contribution. It was one of the finest bits of political television I've ever seen.

Yes excellent.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 14 Jun, 2019 12:30 am

Also of interest Stephen Kinnock admitted smoking weed at school then partaking of (presumably ecstasy) raving his way through what he described as 'the second summer of love', Adam Price of Plaid confessed to taking 'drugs' while part of the gay clubbing scene, Theresa Villiers said she 'tried' smoking weed at university but it made her sick* and Mark Reckless (he of the many parties) confirmed that he missed a vote in parliament because he was pissed.

*Isn't it amazing how many right wing Tories seem to have some natural defence against drugs that the rest of us lack? Either the drugs have no effect, or they make them ill, or they just wont enter the correct orifice without some bizarre mishap occuring.

Perhaps that could be some kind of test that could be run on people to determine their political leaning. Hand the subject a spliff and if when they try smoking it a crow flies down and tears it from their fingers you know they're a right wing Tory.

Seriously though, I've never know a time when the case for reforming our drug laws has been more obvious. The majority of candidates for leader of the Conservative party have admitted using drugs for fuck's sake, just tonight every politician admitted illegal drug use (besides Reckless but he wasn't asked because...well I don't think anyone cared). A few weeks ago I watched young teenage lads across the street get run down by police dogs and arrested by armed police for selling weed. Not skunk, just the excellent weed you can get round here because we have a lot of old Rasta's and it's a lot weaker than the hash I used to get 30 years ago. They were doing no harm to anyone, but our hypocritical political class set dogs and armed men in masks on them. Then sent them to prison.

There is an actual armed and dangerous drugs gang in the area, they shoot people and post videos about it on Youtube, last year they shot the brother of a Leeds United player on a back street nearby. They sell horrible drugs and use children as couriers. Locally we know who some of them are, it's not like they're trying to hide it and yet the police seem to do nothing, just go for the easy low hanging fruit while a ludicrous prohibition enables these scum to make a tax free fortune (despite George Osborne including them in the GDP figures).

Something has to change, but I guess I guess I picked the wrong time to imagine sanity descending upon our political class anytime soon.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 14 Jun, 2019 12:58 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Stapleford South East (Broxtowe) result:

LDEM: 44.3% (+19.8)
CON: 30.1% (-0.3)
LAB: 25.5% (-2.9)

No Stapleford Alliance (-16.6) as prev.

Liberal Democrat GAIN (X2) from Conservative.

Isn't Broxtowe Anna Soubry territory?

Just shows her instincts were right but her ego is quite wrong.

Change UK are like my wild flower seedlings being massacred by slugs.

It seemed a good idea at the time and early on there was hope but inevitably things will go horribly wrong when you've no idea what you're doing.

I would say she should join the Lib-Dems but previous experience of doing something similar as a political refugee makes me fully aware of what treacherous bastards they can be.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Fri 14 Jun, 2019 1:34 am

Anyway, following the example of the majority of the Tory party leadership candidates I'm now going to enter an altered state of consciousness.

Usually mine involves a pleasant and at times joyous feeling of splendidness, which often results in grinning like a fool to music while waving my arms about in a sort of wafting fashion. This will be familiar to any students of the media of the 1960's. So I'm assuming the urge to waft ones arms about to good stoned music is neurological.

What I don't understand is how anyone could smoke this shit and still end up being a cunt to other human beings.