Saturday 15th June & Sunday 16th June 2019

Post by **refitman** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 8:25 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 9:08 am

How dare Jeremy Corbyn ask for evidence that Iran is responsible for the tanker attack?

Morning.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 9:44 am

Good morfternoon.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 10:32 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:How dare Jeremy Corbyn ask for evidence that Iran is responsible for the tanker attack?

Morning.

Our pundits seem convinced the public is thirsting for another war in the Middle East.

In touch as ever.......

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 11:36 am

Morning all.

"What do we want?"
"War!"
"When do we...
"Hang on - the Japanese owners of the tanker dispute the US account of the...."
"Shut up!"
"...want it?"
"Now!"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 58916.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 11:57 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... a-outbreak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, ordered a review of hospital food on Friday as he came under pressure from opposition MPs, who demanded that he make a statement to parliament on the scandal.

“I have been incredibly concerned by this issue and strongly believe that we need a radical new approach to the food that is served in our NHS,” Hancock said. “Staff, patients and families deserve so much better – our NHS should be at the forefront of supporting people to make healthy choices. I have instructed the NHS to conduct a root and branch review of hospital food.”

Unbelievable. Trying to blame the NHS for listeria in our food supply chain. What's Hancock trying to imply? That the NHS shouldn't risk buying in sandwiches from outside sources because our food supply chain is so poorly overseen, with food inspections slashed by austerity and standards slipping that it now constitutes a risk to already ill people? Yes, this does seem to be what he's implying. FFS. I'm all for better hospital food, but this isn't about hospital food. Surely hospitals in this country can buy in food without a) worrying our lax food standards might make such food dangerous to ill people and b) being held responsible for the lax food standards of independent suppliers that are not under their direct management.

The question is what has gone wrong at these food suppliers, not what has gone wrong with food made within hospitals, which isn't even slightly in the frame here.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 12:00 pm

He (still) wants to be Tory leader and so needs to chuck some red meat at the "base".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 12:07 pm

Maybe Hancock is arguing that hospital food preparation - and that means sandwiches as well - is all brought back in-house and outsourced caterers given the boot?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 12:32 pm

Mike Gapes
@MikeGapes
In 27 years in Parliament I questioned and scrutinised 10 Foreign Secretaries. Johnson was by far the worst informed, the most casual, the most disinterested, and the most embarrassing. Yet over 100 Tory MPs want this man to be our Prime Minister. He is unfit for the role.

Yep. That documentary on the FCO showed quite what a clueless numpty he was there.

And that's leaving aside the train wreck of his personal life - I hadn't realised until today who he was now shacked up with. I tend not to read the tabloids so hadn't heard that one.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 12:34 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Maybe Hancock is arguing that hospital food preparation - and that means sandwiches as well - is all brought back in-house and outsourced caterers given the boot?

That's sort of what it sounds like, but given that outsourcing to the private sector is fundamental to Tory philosophy it doesn't seem very likely, does it.

Besides, that's not the point. Hospitals taking food prep in house could solve things like nutrition levels, value for money etc and I'm all for it but it won't solve listeria in the external food supply chain, which is the problem which has been highlighted by these deaths. If listeria laden sandwiches are making their way into hospitals they're also making their way into petrol stations, corner shops, offices etc. The real question the opposition should be asking isn't what is to be done about hospital food, there's nothing wrong with hospital made food, but what is going to be done about our national food supply chain that allowed this to happen. Where were the food inspectors, what has happened to standards? There was a massive recall of frozen sweetcorn products in the retail sector last year due to contamination with listeria. If Hancock succeeds in making this about hospitals the real culprit, declining standards within the food supply chain, gets brushed under the carpet and the NHS once again gets negative press despite doing nothing wrong.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 2:34 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ding-falls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 2:50 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 3:46 pm

Thirty five years, blimmin 'eck.

Remember the fuss about the "doctored" BBC coverage as if it was yesterday.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 5:59 pm

I saw this in The Guardian Guide this morning and meant to mention it but fortunately it ended up on Twitter...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 9:41 pm

I understand that Johnson gave that one a miss, but plans to attend the BBC gathering.

Perish the thought that he thinks he might get an easier ride in that one.......

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 9:47 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... urt-ruling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 9:55 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ding-falls

[youtube]-juTV73ZTcc[/youtube]

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 15 Jun, 2019 10:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I understand that Johnson gave that one a miss, but plans to attend the BBC gathering.

Perish the thought that he thinks he might get an easier ride in that one.......

Evening all,

Hope everyone is well

I am no fan of Johnson (quelled surprise) but am a bit flummoxed about the flack he is getting for all these debates. Firstly, the correspondents in the presss can all take a running jump as none of them have any interest in informing the public at all, it is just a chance for them to pander to their own egos as much as Johnson does to his

Secondly, Johnson is in an election and in one where he is doing what he needs to. A said before the only person who can lose this for him is himself and so he is keeping his head down and focusing on his electorate - the MPs. Who are the tv debates for? The public who will have no say in the coronation? Perhaps if the journalists had done their job properly beforehand this shambles could have been avoided.

If I was Johnson I would be doing exactly the same thing - if the journalists are so concerned about this then they should be continually focusing on how the general electorate will have no say in the new PM. Won't do that though as it would potentially lead to a Labour Gment

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 8:41 am

Good morfternoon.

Esther McVey is in the jobs market.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 9:10 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Esther McVey is in the jobs market.

For one moment I thought she had somehow been sacked as an MP.

But yes I see what you mean.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 9:59 am

Strange Woodie ballots in favour of Rory Stewart (6,7).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 10:52 am

Who needs a functioning Tory Party when you've got Momentum and the the keeptheToriesInists mimicking Osborne in the rewriting of history and trashing previous Labour governments.It is rather ridiculous (both ways)comparing the actual with imaginary.

"Bollox means Bollox"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:09 am

"If you work in a sewer you have to deal with shit"I have equal disdain for the nose in the air unwilling/didn't have to get their hands dirty/walk awayists of past and present.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:14 am

HindleA wrote:Who needs a functioning Tory Party when you've got Momentum and the the keeptheToriesInists mimicking Osborne in the rewriting of history and trashing previous Labour governments.It is rather ridiculous (both ways)comparing the actual with imaginary.

"Bollox means Bollox"

Blair's "foundation" released that self-serving and misleading video - some response was inevitable.

It wouldn't be so bad if Blair's groupies hadn't spent the 2010-15 period incessantly telling us "Labour needs to apologise for spending too much in government" and playing down their actual achievements just to have a go at Ed M. They can now hardly complain if others do the same.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:19 am

I don't give an arse about personalities,my point still stands.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:26 am

HindleA wrote:I don't give an arse about personalities,my point still stands.

And so does mine.

Blairites have relentlessly trolled most Labour members and voters since 2010 if not 2007. They reap what they sow.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:32 am

Funny enough I can come to a view on clear crap "unassisted"and in it's own terms.If you think I am influenced by Blair or anybody else ie through the prism of it's not the personality but it is ,that just shows it's perniciousness.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:42 am

I fully accept that, nobody could be in any doubt about it reading your posts down the years

Its just that my reading of this is slightly different to yours.

(the important thing for me is that Momentum didn't do what they did unprovoked and for no reason, either in the short or longer term)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:43 am

I don't agree with "reap what you sow",in general.Terrible things happen to good people all the time,bit that's off at a tangent.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:44 am

Fair enough"in context"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:46 am

It's good to disagree,if not essential.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:48 am

Badly written tweet,intimated "as a consequence"didn't help.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:00 pm

I'm no less immune from knee-jerk/hackle rising then anybody else but what I would say if that is my initial reaction I would question it's use as a tactic to those you are seeking to persuade.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:02 pm

At least this has got you posting again

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:06 pm

Anyway Vivian Rook will be the PM in 2026,I saw it in the telly.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I fully accept that, nobody could be in any doubt about it reading your posts down the years

Its just that my reading of this is slightly different to yours.

(the important thing for me is that Momentum didn't do what they did unprovoked and for no reason, either in the short or longer term)

Neither did Blair as such. He defended himself against an attack by Corbyn that the Labour government ignored inequality. Whether you find his defence credible or not, it was Corbyn that started with the idea that there was an unbroken line of ideology that led to where we are today that was completed by Momentum and it plays into the "they're all the same" bollocks that has left the public out of love with the two main parties. That the current Labour leadership can't see that only parties that aren't one of the main two, like the SNP, can benefit from this is depressing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:14 pm

That is one reading of Corbyn's speech, yes. Another is that the fact inequality increased during the Blair years, despite that governments undoubted good intentions, demonstrates that "social mobility" is a fundamentally flawed concept and needs to be replaced by something else.

That was my main take from it anyway.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 12:18 pm

It really should be possible to attack the Tories for their choices over spending cuts, tax cuts and shrinking of the state and to make a case for substantial change in approach without attacking the record of the last Labour government.

It should be possible to question the merits of "social mobility" as currently pursued by the current government and propose a shift to a greater emphasis on reducing inequality without taking swipes at a Labour government that set out to and succeeded in reducing child and pensioner poverty, a success that is now in reverse - not quite that straight line from bad to worse that Corbyn's and Momentum's attacks imply.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 1:11 pm

I've just re-watched the relevant bit to check (today's Andrew Marr programme) and Rory Stewart stated that he would not serve in a Boris Johnson cabinet. I can't keep up.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 1:32 pm

Perhaps Rory Stewart is hoping to step in as leader of a cross-party soft Brexit coalition government when Boris Johnson loses a vote of no confidence.

Ridiculous, I know. But so is Boris Johnson as PM and crashing out of the EU without a deal.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 2:24 pm

In more light hearted news, I see the centrist internet troofers are having a meltdown over Corbyn and Ulysses again......

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 5:30 pm

I've never liked Joyce very much.

I find his style of writing deeply irritating, to the point that I can't be bothered to put in the effort to work out what he's trying to say.

I can accept he's a good writer and others appreciate his work but he does nothing for me personally.

Rather like I feel about Corbyn, tbh. I bet he's a Faulkner fan too.....it would explain so much....

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 5:56 pm

Thanks for that post, I was worried I had killed the thread off

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 6:19 pm

I haven't actually read any of these twitter Corbyn/Ulyssses comments. I can't quite imagine what's to criticise. Joyce is very well thought of as a writer (to say the very least) and you can see why Corbyn may find his subject matter interesting.

And many of us have books we associate with a particular trip or period of our life. I might not enjoy Joyce myself, but I can certainly relate to that experience of discovering a book that has real resonance and becomes an integral part of our memory of certain places and times.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:08 pm

Tom Peck
✔
@tompeck

People are criticising @BorisJohnson for not turning up to this Channel 4 debate but, in fairness, it is Father’s Day. He’s got a lot of places to be.
1,616
6:38 PM - Jun 16, 2019

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:16 pm

Anyone here actually watching the debate?

Can't quite bring myself to it, even sans Boris.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:19 pm

Willow904 wrote:Anyone here actually watching the debate?

Can't quite bring myself to it, even sans Boris.

I watched a bit. Utterly uninspiring. Gove perhaps the Most persuasive.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:21 pm

Rory Stewart chose silly analogy of trying to stuff the bin bags in a dustbin that's too small to illustrate the futility of No Deal Brexit.

Cynical attempt to appeal to the "blue rinse" demographic?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:24 pm

Yes. It's a bit pointless without the full cast, and in the light of it being an internal election, though. I'm sure Boris Johnson would fare as badly as everyone else, were he there.

(Although Michael Gove and Dominic Raab are particularly bad, with Rory Stewart coming out best.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 7:26 pm

Oh - and Jeremy Hunt is an entrepreneur. He keeps saying so.

Edited to add -

PTO