Monday 17th June 2019
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Monday 17th June 2019
Morning
"Every old person should die with dignity"
Hunt apparently said
Revealing the mindset and ignorance in just a few words,a skill of sorts.
"Every old person should die with dignity"
Hunt apparently said
Revealing the mindset and ignorance in just a few words,a skill of sorts.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
At what fucking age is it acceptable to die without dignity?
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Now approaching "older" my view on the ridiculous some how more deserving by the great skill of not dying rains the same.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Universally Rory Stewart seems to be seen as the "winner".
But does he have any chance?
But does he have any chance?
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
@HA
Indeed.
Nothing to add.
Indeed.
Nothing to add.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
The Groan has
Stewart 5
Hunt 4
Gove 3
Javid 3
Raab 2
Out of five.
Stewart 5
Hunt 4
Gove 3
Javid 3
Raab 2
Out of five.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Manfred Mann has
[youtube]O9CAPrEG5sM[/youtube]
[youtube]O9CAPrEG5sM[/youtube]
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
It is continuing health care that funds dying at home,not social care.
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Morning all.
Interesting choice of words...
Interesting choice of words...
Many replies are of the "OK, so dump Boris" variety...Greg Hands
@GregHands
I like
@RoryStewartUK
but it would be a fundamental mistake for the Conservative Party to go to the country with an All Etonian shortlist.
7:24 PM · Jun 16, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Haven't written that very well,if you wish to die at home that is one of the functions/eligibility access to CHC.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
It supplanted social care in our case.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
He hasn't got enough orifices to talk crap out of.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Maybe politicos in general should spend less time on PR and media training and learn a tad about their brief or (what was)
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Then again that might be asking for trouble and risk putting an age restriction or some such.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Or some sort of sliding dignity scale.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I never stop being "surprised" at their level of stupidity.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
It does seem unlikely that Stewart will make the final two.RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.
Interesting choice of words...
Many replies are of the "OK, so dump Boris" variety...Greg Hands
@GregHands
I like
@RoryStewartUK
but it would be a fundamental mistake for the Conservative Party to go to the country with an All Etonian shortlist.
7:24 PM · Jun 16, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone
But in line with what friends here have said previously, he's probably patting himself on the back and saying job well done, since if he keeps his nose clean he'll be an obvious contender in future.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
"nose clean"
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
The Conservatives get hours of free coverage in what could be the run up to a General Election, to put a wide range of leading politicians in front of the cameras to talk about whatever they want to talk about with no comeback for any of the opposition parties.
The Telegraph complain that it's unfair on the Conservatives. (paywall)
The Telegraph complain that it's unfair on the Conservatives. (paywall)
Channel 4 was accused by Tory MPs of attempting to "sideline" Dominic Raab, the one 'hard' Brexiteer, in the first television debate of the party's leadership race on Sunday. Tory MPs complained that the debate had been "geared up" to encourage the leadership candidates to "knock chunks out of each other".
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I found this interesting (although others might not)
Is time to end our fixation with GDP and growth?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/j ... and-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is time to end our fixation with GDP and growth?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/j ... and-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GDP includes rough estimates for the value of drugs and prostitution, yet fails to take account of unpaid work in the home. In a sign of the scale of what is missing, in 2016, the value of the UK’s unpaid household service work was estimated at £1.24tn, more than the entire non-financial sector.
On paper, charities account for only £27bn of the British economy, but Andy Haldane, the chief economist at the Bank of England, reckons this figure could be increased to £234bn a year if the value of volunteering and the benefits it brings were adequately accounted for.
Environmental degradation is not included in GDP. After the Exxon Valdez disaster in 1989, the oil spill showed up as a net economic gain because the money spent on the clean-up effort boosted US GDP – despite the damage to Alaska’s waters.
The measure takes no account of leisure time, meaning that two countries might have equal GDP but one has workers toiling for 12 hour days and the other only eight. Large amounts of output captured by GDP are also wasteful, such as the hundreds of thousands of tonnes of food wasted in Britain each year, or the Christmas jumpers bought for one night, only to degrade in landfill for centuries.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Tory Fibs
@ToryFibs
44 minutes ago
Tom Watson:
• 2014: I demand an EU referendum
• 2016: I want to end Free Movement
• 2018: Labour is the party of Soft Brexit
• 2019: Labour is the party of Remain
Wonder what Tom's EU Policy will be next year?
@ToryFibs
44 minutes ago
Tom Watson:
• 2014: I demand an EU referendum
• 2016: I want to end Free Movement
• 2018: Labour is the party of Soft Brexit
• 2019: Labour is the party of Remain
Wonder what Tom's EU Policy will be next year?
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
The answer is blowing in the wind.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I can't see him lasting very long if one of the "No-deal and 31st October" candidates get in.BBC Politics
@BBCPolitics
·
55m
Chancellor Philip Hammond says a no-deal #Brexit is not "a practical proposition" and if changes are to be made to the Brexit deal then "it will take significantly longer than the 31st October"
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Has everyone seen Peter Jukes scary theory?
Peter Jukes
Johnson has done a deal with Farage, backed by Bannon and Trump. All are already on an election footing ready for a General Election in October.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Somewhere in the guardian today there's a comment saying Johnson would give Farage a free run in 30 winnable seats in return for a free run for conservatives elsewhere. Might be true - might be that something like this would come about even if it's not a done deal. Nothing much that can be done that people are not doing anyway.gilsey wrote:Has everyone seen Peter Jukes scary theory?
Peter Jukes
Johnson has done a deal with Farage, backed by Bannon and Trump. All are already on an election footing ready for a General Election in October.
Edited to add - I would like to think that this would significantly fracture the conservative party but it's one of those things where I'll believe it when I see it (not the possibilty of an agreement, I can imagine that, but a bunch of tories standing up to their own extremists).
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I highly doubt that the Tories will not fight a significant number of seats, that's just not in their DNA as a "national party".
A deal between Johnson and Farage isn't going to be the slam dunk some are now saying, any more than PM BoJo just running down the clock to no deal would be.
People need to start seeing his win as an opportunity, rather than sinking into "he's going to triumph and nothing we can do about it" pessimism.
A deal between Johnson and Farage isn't going to be the slam dunk some are now saying, any more than PM BoJo just running down the clock to no deal would be.
People need to start seeing his win as an opportunity, rather than sinking into "he's going to triumph and nothing we can do about it" pessimism.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
EdM's covering it in his podcast.RogerOThornhill wrote:I found this interesting (although others might not)
Is time to end our fixation with GDP and growth?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/j ... and-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ed Miliband
GDP measures everything "except that which makes life worthwhile" said Robert Kennedy. @CheerfulPodcast on shifting to welllbeing economics w/ New Zealand Finance Minister @grantrobertson1, @anniequick, @BMHayward & former Cabinet Secretary Gus O' Donnell.
https://play.acast.com/s/reasonstobeche ... 125bf7ebeb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I think your latter point is spot on and I think the point I've put in bold is a very good one. The issue is that it's all but impossible to work out what Johnson actually wants and what he might actually do. If his absolute priority is to get us out of the EU - and it might be - then either forcing through an exit whatever (which should lead to an election, although you're back to relying on 'moderate' tories to give us one) or choosing to go, could lead to some kind of accommodation with Farage. It's also possible that regardless of whatever deal might be public, Farage would declare himself satisfied with what Johnson was up to and would not stand in a good number of tory defend/win targets without any need for the tories to stand anyone down.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I highly doubt that the Tories will not fight a significant number of seats, that's just not in their DNA as a "national party".
A deal between Johnson and Farage isn't going to be the slam dunk some are now saying, any more than PM BoJo just running down the clock to no deal would be.
People need to start seeing his win as an opportunity, rather than sinking into "he's going to triumph and nothing we can do about it" pessimism.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
He's the one most likely to go for an early GE imo, can't help thinking we're in for more months/years of paralysis with any of the others.AnatolyKasparov wrote:
People need to start seeing his win as an opportunity,
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
And may not be his choice.gilsey wrote:He's the one most likely to go for an early GE imo, can't help thinking we're in for more months/years of paralysis with any of the others.AnatolyKasparov wrote:
People need to start seeing his win as an opportunity,
Which is why I was asking what Arlene Foster would do if Labour called No Confidence in a Johnson government.
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
There seems to me to be something very murky and corrupt about Boris Johnson's (re)ascendancy. We all know that he has a history of foul deeds. Not so long ago, he was yesterday's man. What happened to "Anyone but Boris"?
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
That's what I thought after having read Hunt's tweet.HindleA wrote:Morning
"Every old person should die with dignity"
Hunt apparently said
Revealing the mindset and ignorance in just a few words,a skill of sorts.
Tory sounds off and I'm shocked & sick some more
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Good morning, everyone.
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Good morfternoon.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
he obviously didn't look at it in the same way as others might do.citizenJA wrote:That's what I thought after having read Hunt's tweet.HindleA wrote:Morning
"Every old person should die with dignity"
Hunt apparently said
Revealing the mindset and ignorance in just a few words,a skill of sorts.
Tory sounds off and I'm shocked & sick some more
I can see what he meant but it didn't really come across well.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
A Few Decide What's Acceptable: We Say So, End OfPorFavor wrote:There seems to me to be something very murky and corrupt about Boris Johnson's (re)ascendancy. We all know that he has a history of foul deeds. Not so long ago, he was yesterday's man. What happened to "Anyone but Boris"?
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Caroline Lucas gave him the benefit of the doubt and made an excellent point. Hunt and his Tory government have been in leadership for over 9 years and refuse taking responsibility for their deliberate austerity project.RogerOThornhill wrote:he obviously didn't look at it in the same way as others might do.citizenJA wrote:That's what I thought after having read Hunt's tweet.HindleA wrote:Morning
"Every old person should die with dignity"
Hunt apparently said
Revealing the mindset and ignorance in just a few words,a skill of sorts.
Tory sounds off and I'm shocked & sick some more
I can see what he meant but it didn't really come across well.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Yes, indeed. I posted a tweet from Kate Andrews of all people last night, that said much the same thing.citizenJA wrote: Caroline Lucas gave him the benefit of the doubt and made an excellent point. Hunt and his Tory government have been in leadership for over 9 years and refuse taking responsibility for their deliberate austerity project.
About being in government not the austerity which she wouldn't recognise.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I understood what you meant immediately.HindleA wrote:Haven't written that very well,if you wish to die at home that is one of the functions/eligibility access to CHC.
edited to add
I think you wrote it very well
Last edited by citizenJA on Mon 17 Jun, 2019 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Surely its more that she agreed with it?RogerOThornhill wrote:Yes, indeed. I posted a tweet from Kate Andrews of all people last night, that said much the same thing.citizenJA wrote: Caroline Lucas gave him the benefit of the doubt and made an excellent point. Hunt and his Tory government have been in leadership for over 9 years and refuse taking responsibility for their deliberate austerity project.
About being in government not the austerity which she wouldn't recognise.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I imagine Tory government twitter response following the loss of a huge swathe of people is the comfortable proclamation everyone, gone or still around, is better off now.HindleA wrote:Maybe politicos in general should spend less time on PR and media training and learn a tad about their brief or (what was)
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
(cJA edit)RogerOThornhill wrote:I found this interesting (although others might not)
Is time to end our fixation with GDP and growth?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/j ... and-growth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;GDP includes rough estimates for the value of drugs and prostitution, yet fails to take account of unpaid work in the home. In a sign of the scale of what is missing, in 2016, the value of the UK’s unpaid household service work was estimated at £1.24tn, more than the entire non-financial sector.
On paper, charities account for only £27bn of the British economy, but Andy Haldane, the chief economist at the Bank of England, reckons this figure could be increased to £234bn a year if the value of volunteering and the benefits it brings were adequately accounted for.
Environmental degradation is not included in GDP. After the Exxon Valdez disaster in 1989, the oil spill showed up as a net economic gain because the money spent on the clean-up effort boosted US GDP – despite the damage to Alaska’s waters.
---
War does the same thing
Re: Monday 17th June 2019
I miss Labour government. The mess we have now didn't have to happen.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ed ahead of the curve again.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
The consequences of "cutting red tape"
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight ... fell-61834
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight ... fell-61834
“This coalition has a clear New Year’s resolution: to kill off the health and safety culture for good,”
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Fascinating to read what Blair himself said about the EU 14 years ago.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... peeches.eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... peeches.eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Just had a brief discussion with someone called @blairsupporter on Twitter.
We agreed that Blair tacked very much to a pragmatic position on EU membership and did quite a bit of Eurosceptic appeasement.
But when I tried to suggest that Corbyn finds himself in a very similar position the response was the standard Blair is ardent pro-EU whereas Corbyn is anti.
Yawn.
We agreed that Blair tacked very much to a pragmatic position on EU membership and did quite a bit of Eurosceptic appeasement.
But when I tried to suggest that Corbyn finds himself in a very similar position the response was the standard Blair is ardent pro-EU whereas Corbyn is anti.
Yawn.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
And that attitude is why Blair's remaining supporters are now marginalised.
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Re: Monday 17th June 2019
Sure.
I hadn't really done the thought experiment before but in Corbyn's place Blair would probably have a very similar policy.
I hadn't really done the thought experiment before but in Corbyn's place Blair would probably have a very similar policy.