Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st July 2019

[HindleA]

I view all factions as equally annoying,I don't like to have to think.

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

[HindleA]

You can equally bemoan regardless of wing ascriptions but it should be based on facts IMHO.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Actually I've never been clear about the Harman welfare thing. I think I had just left on holiday overseas when it happened.

I'd welcome some more discussion if we can avoid falling out!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Dawn Foster also linked this piece from Patrick Wintour. A "long read" from the end of that summer. Worth a look I reckon.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... bour-party" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

I only fall out with myself and on a regular basis.To be clear I am happier with the direction,but many issues remain unresolved;this "space" provides an opportunity but also a danger IMHO

[HindleA]

And it ain't necessarily simple eg."free personal care"dependent on implementation can reduce support for some.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

This Tweet from Jeremy Hunt hasn't gone down well!

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[PaulfromYorkshire]

I greatly appreciate your reminders on the topic A. I think you have trained me to look ever more critically at the language around disability, age, benefits etc.

With regard to the Harman moment is your concern then that Corbyn got something of a free ride on the topic?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Confused money novices exposing Boris plan for No Deal trade as a "non-starter".

[gilsey]

Yorkshire Vikings who are they?

https://www.yorkshireccc.com/t20blast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Willow904]

The fact that Burnham and Cooper were in the shadow cabinet so didn't have the same freedom to break the whip and oppose the welfare cuts is not acknowledged in the "Corbyn was the only leadership contender to vote against" narrative. That Burnham made great efforts to get Harman to change Labour's position, and succeeded in getting an amendment tabled, is mostly forgotten but it seems likely if elected leader he would have changed Labour's stance. And, of course, the Tories had a majority. Burnham wouldn't have materially changed anything by resigning from the shadow cabinet to vote against, he would have just given up a position from which he could seek to influence policy. Ultimately Burnham was punished in the leadership race for Harman's policy. His subsequent loyalty to Corbyn was born of the same principles, the ultimate irony being, of course, that Corbyn can only ever be successful as leader if others make the compromises and pragmatic choices which he, in their position, could not.

[citizenJA]

Parliamentary lawmaking procedure intentionally creates divisiveness and obfuscation.

[citizenJA]

This Tweet from Jeremy Hunt hasn't gone down well!

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Oh, wow

[citizenJA]

She's still in hospital? The last media report I'd read indicated she went home the same day.

[citizenJA]

I only fall out with myself and on a regular basis.To be clear I am happier with the direction,but many issues remain unresolved;this "space" provides an opportunity but also a danger IMHO

Differences and unresolved issues will continue because we're human beings working things out together. Individual isolation is dangerous. You help me continue living.

[citizenJA]

Actually I've never been clear about the Harman welfare thing.
---

(cJA edit)
Neither have I, Paul!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Wintour also points out that Burnham was hamstrung by some of his key supporters. I was minded to vote for him at the outset but my recollection is he wavered so much through the campaign it was almost embarrassing.

In fact Kendall comes out of the Wintour article well, but maybe that's because he wrote it!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

She's still in hospital? The last media report I'd read indicated she went home the same day.

The Tweet is from yesterday Thornberry is fine it seems.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Of course, our own archives from 4 years ago are still available if people want an idea of how it all went down at the time......

[RogerOThornhill]

There's a fair amount of scepticism about that 19 year old "journalist" saying "Oh by the way it was me behind that Kim Darroch story" in the DM.

https://twitter.com/xtophercook/status/ ... 5178635264

Chris Cook
@xtophercook
This whole thing is deeply weird. Journalists sometimes leave bylines off to confuse leak-hunters, but don’t then reveal themselves a week later. Also a v muddled idea of what the diplomatic service does, and its “no, this wasn’t a Brexiter hit on Kim Darroch” argument is... odd

[AnatolyKasparov]

In fact Kendall comes out of the Wintour article well, but maybe that's because he wrote it!

I recall a "surprising" number of people voting 1Corbyn 2Kendall in the 2015 election (and some the other way round too)

She has generally given a good impression when on BBC's This Week, even though she is obviously not a Jez supporter

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I'm not a Jez supporter as such either. Kendall appears to understand that he has earned the leadership and deserves respect. It's the idea that Corbyn has somehow stolen the leadership that upsets me.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Or indeed that his election (and re-election) as leader was simply a random act of madness that happened for no reason.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Or indeed that his election (and re-election) as leader was simply a random act of madness that happened for no reason.

The reason was people wanted a left wing Labour leader.

The problem is he's fucking useless.

I can't really put it any more succinctly than that.

I mean how the hell can the Labour party still be on relative parity with a Tory party in utter chaos about to elect a leader most of them hate?

It truly boggles the mind.

Yet here we are where those of us on the left who wish to remain in the EU are having to vote for the Liberal fucking Democrats because apparently Corbyn's Labour might hate a Tory brexit but would still subject us to their own 'jobs first' unicorn shit if they have their way.

I have a lot of time for Jeremy Corbyn, I think he's a decent man, but I also think he's incapable of any kind of spontaneous thought or wit, any examples of his spontaneity to prove me wrong are of course welcome, because it's not his Marxism or his alleged anti-semitism or any of that shit I have a problem with. I just think he's a bit thick.

And that those around him have agendas that are at least 30 years out of date.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Sorry Anatoly, that wasn't aimed at you, just...you know.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I have a 2:1 in Classics.

Do any of you think I should be running this country?

I could tell you stories about the rich Athenians bringing in Solon to save their own necks or about how a democracy can change it's mind in the case of the Mytilenians or how a demagogue can bring about initial success but ultimate humiliation and defeat.

And it's not just ancient Greece that is replete with these lessons, we keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again because as a species we do tend to end up being ruled by fucking morons.

Perhaps some kind of genetic engineering would make things better?

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