Wednesday 28th August 2019

Post by **refitman** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 7:04 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:02 am

Morning.

Can I just check something? Johnson can't "call" an election can he?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:26 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-49493632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:27 am

Queen to be asked to suspend Parliament

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:39 am

So things become clearer. He's not calling an election he's writing a new Queen's Speech.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:40 am

It seems Parliament will have to return next week. But Johnson's move means time will be very limited.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 9:43 am

Stephen Bush quick of the mark with a response

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/e ... ally-means" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:21 am

Due to previous Tory government shenanigans we are, of course, well overdue a Queen's Speech. Complaining about protocol is pointless.

The only real course of action at this point is to bring the government down.

And the only real hope of avoiding no deal is now the rather unlikely caretaker government scenario to ask the EU for an extension to article 50 in order to hold an election. Which Labour then have to win. A tall order. I said back in March MPs may come to regret not voting through May's WA. I think some of them have said as much already.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:38 am

No response yet as far as I can see from the Labour front bench. Grieve is sticking to his line of only willing to vote down the government as a last resort. I don't think he's going to be able to duck it much longer. There's no time now for anything else as far as I can see.

Soubry on BBC News has been a bit all over the place but just made a good point about if we leave on 31st October with no deal it won't be all over because we still need a deal, that "just leaving" isn't an option, Brexit is a process not a one off event. Not that many leave voters will listen, of course.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:50 am

I suppose in the spirit of yesterday, Labour should be consulting with the other opposition parties.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 10:52 am

Angela Rayner
@AngelaRayner
A constitutional outrage plain and simple, Charles 1st did this regularly which caused chaos, now an unelected PM seeking to shut parliament down for his own political gain, this isn't taking back democracy this is destroying democracy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:05 am

Good morfternoon.

For what it's worth, for practical considerations:

John Bercow says prorogation of parliament "a constitutional outrage"

The Speaker John Bercow has issued an extraordinary statement. “I have had no contact from the Government, but if the reports that it is seeking to prorogue Parliament are confirmed, this move represents a constitutional outrage,” he says. (Politics Live, Guardian)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:12 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.

Can I just check something? Johnson can't "call" an election can he?

May did, didn't she? Labour happy to vote for it.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /2/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of people saying he wants to provoke VONC rather than the legislative route to stop no deal, that he wants a GE but doesn't want to call it himself. Part of the 'people v parliament' schtick he wants as the election line.

Their arrogance in thinking they can control this process is something to behold.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:13 am

I watched a bizarre interview earlier. A pro-"Brexit" MP (Conservative MP for Cleethorpes?) maintained that the electorate knew all the downsides to "Brexit" because the Remain campaigners explained them all in the Referendum campaign - and yet they (the electorate) still voted to leave the EU. Therefore this is all ok.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:19 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Angela Rayner
@AngelaRayner
A constitutional outrage plain and simple, Charles 1st did this regularly which caused chaos, now an unelected PM seeking to shut parliament down for his own political gain, this isn't taking back democracy this is destroying democracy.

This is the same line taken by Margaret Beckett on BBC News, so some consistency there, but the lack of a statement from the front bench on the rolling BBC news coverage and in the online live blogs is noticeable. I feel Labour really need to get a front bench face out there to show they're on top of a fast moving political story. I haven't seen anything from Corbyn but plenty from Farage, for instance.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:28 am

Bercow not mincing his words there.....

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:31 am

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.

Can I just check something? Johnson can't "call" an election can he?
May did, didn't she? Labour happy to vote for it.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /2/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of people saying he wants to provoke VONC rather than the legislative route to stop no deal, that he wants a GE but doesn't want to call it himself. Part of the 'people v parliament' schtick he wants as the election line.

Their arrogance in thinking they can control this process is something to behold.

Farage is talking it up, saying a GE seems likely and we know Johnson has been making lots of empty campaign friendly policy announcements so this seems very plausible.

I'm hoping you're right about being over confident and arrogant. Certainly, even if a GE is a huge risk for Johnson, you have to weigh up the draw of the possibility of winning a majority against the status quo of struggling along presiding over a hung and hostile parliament. It will be tempting for him even if he recognises the risks. On the opposition side, ultimately an election is the only way to change the numbers, so even if Johnson is clearly manipulating parliament into an election, that doesn't mean parliament shouldn't go for it. It just means the opposition has to be careful about how it frames things. I presume comparing Johnson to Charles 1st is an attempt to do this. I'll be interested in how Corbyn chooses to respond when he finally does because his approach should set the tone for any ensuing election campaign.

Edited to add the difficulty is to ensure article 50 is extended to accommodate a GE. I wonder if MPs will try to legislate for that in the first instance? Just voting Johnson down and letting him control a GE timetable might not be the best option, if you can't be sure the election will be held before 31st Oct.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:35 am

Labour voted for a GE in 2017 when the polls were a lot worse for them than they are now, so hard to see them turning down such a chance if it occurs.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 11:45 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour voted for a GE in 2017 when the polls were a lot worse for them than they are now, so hard to see them turning down such a chance if it occurs.

Yes, agree, with the caveat as outlined in my edit above.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 12:09 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour voted for a GE in 2017 when the polls were a lot worse for them than they are now, so hard to see them turning down such a chance if it occurs.

Agreed.

But couldn't Labour basically say yes of course but you need to secure an extension to Article 50 first?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 12:12 pm

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning.

Can I just check something? Johnson can't "call" an election can he?
May did, didn't she? Labour happy to vote for it.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /2/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lots of people saying he wants to provoke VONC rather than the legislative route to stop no deal, that he wants a GE but doesn't want to call it himself. Part of the 'people v parliament' schtick he wants as the election line.

Their arrogance in thinking they can control this process is something to behold.

Thanks.

I was just checking nothing had changed. So Johnson can't really "call" an election, but he can ask Parliament to vote for one, if it ever meets.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 12:32 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour voted for a GE in 2017 when the polls were a lot worse for them than they are now, so hard to see them turning down such a chance if it occurs.
Agreed.

But couldn't Labour basically say yes of course but you need to secure an extension to Article 50 first?

They (and indeed other MPs) could certainly try that, yes.

And, depending on the actual circumstances, might indeed do so.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 12:58 pm

It's alright, everyone. Calm down. Peter Bone has said that all of this is nothing to do with "Brexit".

I'm getting very irritated about hearing how terrible this all is for the poor old Quing who's trying to enjoy (one of her many) a holiday in her (one of her many) holiday homes. Still, if that's what it takes to get people fired up, I'm prepared to go along with it for now.

Edited to add - please excuse the poor sentence structure etc. I blame those brackets.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 1:00 pm

From the G liveblog:

Corbyn appalled at "recklessness of Johnson’s government"
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has issued a statement responding to the government’s announcement.

I am appalled at the recklessness of Johnson’s government, which talks about sovereignty and yet is seeking to suspend parliament to avoid scrutiny of its plans for a reckless No Deal Brexit. This is an outrage and a threat to our democracy.

That is why Labour has been working across Parliament to hold this reckless government to account, and prevent a disastrous No Deal which parliament has already ruled out.

If Johnson has confidence in his plans he should put them to the people in a general election or public vote.

A rather bland echo of what's already been said by everybody else. Doesn't really add much.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 2:03 pm

https://www.z2k.org/latest/scrap-the-le ... e-are-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 2:12 pm

PorFavor wrote:It's alright, everyone. Calm down. Peter Bone has said that all of this is nothing to do with "Brexit".

I'm getting very irritated about hearing how terrible this all is for the poor old Quing who's trying to enjoy (one of her many) a holiday in her (one of her many) holiday homes. Still, if that's what it takes to get people fired up, I'm prepared to go along with it for now.

Edited to add - please excuse the poor sentence structure etc. I blame those brackets.

Apparently JC's written to her. Eek.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 2:35 pm

Swinson has too!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 2:58 pm

In contrast, Ruth Davidson has let it be known she won't be doing any interviews today. Wonder why that might be?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:02 pm

She said yes.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:02 pm

The Quing that is, not Ruth Davidson.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:16 pm

15:01
Privy Council meeting has taken place at Balmoral
The Privy Council meeting to sign off Boris Johnson’s plan to suspend Parliament has taken place at at Balmoral, the Press Association reports.

Sources said Commons Leader Jacob Rees-Mogg - the Lord President of the Council - Lords Leader Baroness Evans and Chief Whip Mark Spencer attended the meeting with the Queen.

That was fast.

Strangely was thinking earlier we hadn't heard anything from Rees-Mogg. He was busy prepping for government's compromising of the Queen.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:22 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The Quing that is, not Ruth Davidson.

So the Quing (I think that typo should stay) did not save us after all!!

Whoever would have guessed??

(everybody except the most blinkered #FBPEers, is of course the correct answer)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:25 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:She said yes.

Am I cynical to think the right wing press will shut up about Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein now?

Someone somewhere put the idea in my head and now I can't shake it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:26 pm

Anyway, the least we can do is sign the "don't prorogue parliament" petition - set up today and already approaching half a million sigs

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:35 pm

Antoinette Sandbach
@Sandbach
I am being inundated with furious emails from constituents about the prorogation of Parliament. The proposal is an affront to democratic accountability at a time when the new PM should be happy to be scrutinised by elected MPs

[Sandbach is a Tory MP]

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The Quing that is, not Ruth Davidson.
So the Quing (I think that typo should stay) did not save us after all!!

Whoever would have guessed??

(everybody except the most blinkered #FBPEers, is of course the correct answer)

The Quing is consistently used by PorFavor as, I think, a gender neutral reference to the monarch

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 4:47 pm

Keir Starmer
@Keir_Starmer
·
13m
An unelected PM shutting down parliament tells you all you need to know about Johnson & simply increases our collective resolve to defeat him & prevent a ‘no deal’ Brexit.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 5:17 pm

Am seeing rumours that Ruth Davidson has quit as Scottish Leader. Can anyone confirm?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 5:57 pm

Willow904 wrote:Am seeing rumours that Ruth Davidson has quit as Scottish Leader. Can anyone confirm?

Apparently, she will announce her decision tomorrow (according to the BBC).

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:Am seeing rumours that Ruth Davidson has quit as Scottish Leader. Can anyone confirm?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out etc....

On the other hand, surprising who can dredge up a few principles at the last.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:19 pm

Good evening, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:21 pm

I haven't seen or heard news until now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:24 pm

I liked Corbyn's statement, Willow. But so far all I know is what I've read here.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:25 pm

Mr citizen brought home biscuits. Please help yourselves.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:27 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Am seeing rumours that Ruth Davidson has quit as Scottish Leader. Can anyone confirm?
Apparently, she will announce her decision tomorrow (according to the BBC).

Thanks. I saw a few posts on twitter but couldn't find a reliable source at time of posting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:35 pm

I don't like these shenanigans at all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

For what it's worth, for practical considerations:

John Bercow says prorogation of parliament "a constitutional outrage"

The Speaker John Bercow has issued an extraordinary statement. “I have had no contact from the Government, but if the reports that it is seeking to prorogue Parliament are confirmed, this move represents a constitutional outrage,” he says. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I appreciate this from Bercow.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:36 pm

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Ruth Davidson’s spokesman ‘Ruth’s decision is not connected to today’s events in any way’ - suggestions announcement has been planned for a few days
6:24 PM - Aug 28, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Life's full of coincidences - a bit like Peter Bone's assertion that this latest episode has nothing to do with "Brexit".

Although we don't yet know what Ruth Davidson's "decision" is . . .

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:I liked Corbyn's statement, Willow. But so far all I know is what I've read here.

Yeah, the statement was fine, it's just I'd already heard similar from half a dozen people previously so it was a bit "meh".

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Aug, 2019 6:47 pm

citizenJA wrote:I haven't seen or heard news until now.

I'll sum up for you.

Boris Johnson is determined to have his own way, Philip Hammond is a broken reed, and the DUP is preparing their invoice.

Edited to add -

PTO