Friday 30th August 2019

Post by **refitman** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 7:04 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 9:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nhs-chiefs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:15 am

Steve Barclay MP
@SteveBarclay
The car industry’s ‘just in time’ supply chains rely on fluid cross-Channel trade routes. >1,100 trucks filled with car parts cross seamlessly from EU into UK each day. We need to start talks now on how we make sure this flow continues if we leave without a deal. /4
6:33 PM · Aug 28, 2019

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:20 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... c-spending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:21 am

Good morfternoon.

Severin Carrell Esq
✔
@severincarrell

BREAKING: Scottish judge throws out bid to stop Boris Johnson suspending parliament for now - urgent appeal expected #stopBoris #courtofsession (Politics Live, Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:21 am

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:32 am

https://www.adass.org.uk/sort-out-socia ... nd-for-all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:42 am

Hope everybody is in talks about the car industry,apparently it is down to us.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:48 am

More on the Scottish challenge:

Aiden O’Neill QC, representing those for the action, argued for the substantive hearing to be moved forward.

He said: “There is an urgency to this - any delay is prejudicial - not just to the prejudice of the petitioners, but to the country as a whole.”

The hearing was then changed from Friday September 6 to Tuesday in the “interest of justice”.

Lord Doherty said: “I’m going to move the substantive hearing forward to Tuesday.
“Weighing consideration in the balance, it’s in the interest of justice that it proceeds sooner rather than later.” (Politics Live, Guardian)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 10:58 am

Morning all.

fairly hard-hitting article by Vernon Bogdanor...

Parliament had failed on Brexit long before this prorogation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ve-no-deal

Once MPs have rejected the flagship policy of any government, their obvious recourse is to remove it and replace it with one more to their liking. That requires a successful no-confidence vote and either an alternative government chosen from the existing House of Commons or, more likely, a general election so that the people can arbitrate. But Boris Johnson’s opponents seem unsure that they could carry such a no-confidence vote. So there is an institutional deadlock that threatens to prevent Johnson from breaking the Brexit deadlock. That can now be broken only by the EU. In fact I suspect that the long prorogation is directed as much at the EU as Westminster, to convince the EU that parliament will not be able to stop a no-deal Brexit.

A note from Adam, butting in again - bugger, I thought I'd replied to this but it seemed I'd accidentally used my super moderating skills to edit it instead. Apologies. I'll reply properly somewhere below.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:02 am

From 1997...

Fury as sleaze report buried

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/19 ... vatives.uk

The furore over the suppression of the "cash for questions" report was catapulted into the general election campaign last night when Paddy Ashdown wrote to the prime minister demanding its publication and Tony Blair's office indicated that Labour would harry the Tories over it.

The row will grow with Labour's deputy leader, John Prescott, also writing to John Major today. Labour is expected to accuse Mr Major of proroguing parliament for the longest period since 1918 simply to avoid the embarrassing findings being published.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:13 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Severin Carrell Esq
✔
@severincarrell

BREAKING: Scottish judge throws out bid to stop Boris Johnson suspending parliament for now - urgent appeal expected #stopBoris #courtofsession (Politics Live, Guardian)

Not a real surprise, surely - what Johnson has done is bad, but very likely not *illegal*.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:21 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Severin Carrell Esq
✔
@severincarrell

BREAKING: Scottish judge throws out bid to stop Boris Johnson suspending parliament for now - urgent appeal expected #stopBoris #courtofsession (Politics Live, Guardian)
Not a real surprise, surely - what Johnson has done is bad, but very likely not *illegal*.

Possibly not (I'm no lawyer) but it still remains to be seen.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:34 am

PorFavor wrote:
Possibly not (I'm no lawyer) but it still remains to be seen.

It could be argued that it's against the spirit of the law since it stops MPs voting for a conference recess - which they may well have voted against.

Post by **adam** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:49 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

fairly hard-hitting article by Vernon Bogdanor...

Parliament had failed on Brexit long before this prorogation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ve-no-deal

Once MPs have rejected the flagship policy of any government, their obvious recourse is to remove it and replace it with one more to their liking. That requires a successful no-confidence vote and either an alternative government chosen from the existing House of Commons or, more likely, a general election so that the people can arbitrate. But Boris Johnson’s opponents seem unsure that they could carry such a no-confidence vote. So there is an institutional deadlock that threatens to prevent Johnson from breaking the Brexit deadlock. That can now be broken only by the EU. In fact I suspect that the long prorogation is directed as much at the EU as Westminster, to convince the EU that parliament will not be able to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Whilst he manages to write anything at all about any of this without ever mentioning that his star pupil David Cameron and his lazy, ignorant arrogance have put in this situation to start with, I don't think we should be paying very much attention to what he has to say.

Post by **adam** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 11:51 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Possibly not (I'm no lawyer) but it still remains to be seen.
It could be argued that it's against the spirit of the law since it stops MPs voting for a conference recess - which they may well have voted against.

Ben Wallace's 'mis-spoken' comments about why they've done it is not going to do them any favours although it may not be enough. I think proroguing is a royal perogative issue - not whether it is or isn't like the earlier Miller case, but about the actual exercise of it, and I'm not sure if the courts can get involved in that.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 12:01 pm

To be fair to Bogdanor I think he'd given up on Cameron quite a long time ago.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 12:05 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:From 1997...

Fury as sleaze report buried

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/19 ... vatives.uk

The furore over the suppression of the "cash for questions" report was catapulted into the general election campaign last night when Paddy Ashdown wrote to the prime minister demanding its publication and Tony Blair's office indicated that Labour would harry the Tories over it.

The row will grow with Labour's deputy leader, John Prescott, also writing to John Major today. Labour is expected to accuse Mr Major of proroguing parliament for the longest period since 1918 simply to avoid the embarrassing findings being published.

Yes, there is a bit of a yarn being spun by Johnson apologists that "Major did the same thing in 1997 and nobody complained".

The former is certainly arguable (not least because a GE had become a legal necessity within a few months) the latter is however totally false.

There was widespread and vocal criticism, and IIRC Major admits in his memoirs that he pulled a bit of a fast one.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 1:09 pm

Barry Gardener was good on the Major thing yesterday.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 1:18 pm

Gardiner has been good in the last few days generally.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 1:47 pm

Well. No 10 getting a bit twitchy?

Sajid Javid was not told in advance of adviser's sacking by Cummings

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-cummings

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged.

Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Downing Street rebuffed speculation that she had leaked the government’s no-deal planning report, Operation Yellowhammer, to the press.

Khan was the second adviser working for Javid to be sacked by No 10, leading to suggestions that Javid is becoming increasingly isolated from the core of the Johnson regime.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 1:55 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well. No 10 getting a bit twitchy?

Sajid Javid was not told in advance of adviser's sacking by Cummings

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-cummings

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was not informed in advance about the sacking of one of his senior advisers by Boris Johnson’s strategist Dominic Cummings, it has emerged.

Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Downing Street rebuffed speculation that she had leaked the government’s no-deal planning report, Operation Yellowhammer, to the press.

Khan was the second adviser working for Javid to be sacked by No 10, leading to suggestions that Javid is becoming increasingly isolated from the core of the Johnson regime.

Yes - I was trying to read (semi-obscured) articles on this earlier - so thanks for the link. It all sounds very, well, creepy.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 2:49 pm

Just reading what the former Clerk to the Commons was saying earlier.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... e74d6981dd

After Bercow described the move as a “constitutional outrage”, the leader of the Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, said such remarks were unconstitutional.

Lisvane said Rees-Mogg was “wrong”. He said: “The house’s presiding officer is also the representative of its interests. And if he sees those interests being damaged or threatened, I think it’s reasonable for him to say something about it. And there are examples over history of that taking place.”

Shocked etc.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 3:22 pm

Ouch

John McDonnell MP
@johnmcdonnellMP
· 10m
Would be better if Dominic Cummings came along next week to present the Spending Review as he’s obviously in charge of the Treasury as well as No10.If you can’t speak without his permission & can’t even decide your own staffing you’re hardly the Chancellor

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 3:48 pm

Deranged remounted, vehement elk is Boris Johnson's nautical metaphor for why he's proroguing Parliament (8,5,3,4).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:01 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Deranged remounted, vehement elk is Boris Johnson's nautical metaphor for why he's proroguing Parliament (8,5,3,4).

I'm afraid I'm in need of help on this one. I'm sure I'll kick myself . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:04 pm

Ok - cancel that request!

Edited to add - I should be keel-hauled for being so slow, shouldn't I?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:42 pm

Bit trickier than the usual ones I'll admit, but good hint from PF for those still struggling

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:44 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Deranged remounted, vehement elk is Boris Johnson's nautical metaphor for why he's proroguing Parliament (8,5,3,4).
I'm afraid I'm in need of help on this one. I'm sure I'll kick myself . . .

I don't think it's an anagram

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:45 pm

PorFavor wrote:Ok - cancel that request!

Edited to add - I should be keel-hauled for being so slow, shouldn't I?

it is an anagram?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:46 pm

Good afternoon, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 4:56 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

fairly hard-hitting article by Vernon Bogdanor...

Parliament had failed on Brexit long before this prorogation

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ve-no-deal
Once MPs have rejected the flagship policy of any government, their obvious recourse is to remove it and replace it with one more to their liking. That requires a successful no-confidence vote and either an alternative government chosen from the existing House of Commons or, more likely, a general election so that the people can arbitrate. But Boris Johnson’s opponents seem unsure that they could carry such a no-confidence vote. So there is an institutional deadlock that threatens to prevent Johnson from breaking the Brexit deadlock. That can now be broken only by the EU. In fact I suspect that the long prorogation is directed as much at the EU as Westminster, to convince the EU that parliament will not be able to stop a no-deal Brexit.

(cJA edit)
I've got some nerve, I know, given Vernon Bogdanor's credentials versus my own (I don't have these CBE FRSA FBA tacked onto citizenJA & I'm not a professor) but I'm thoroughly astonished by his analysis and disagree with it entirely. It is totally inappropriate suggesting the UK's problems be resolved by the EU. It can't be done. The EU can't do that.

We don't know about a no-confidence vote or anything else the Members of Parliament can or can't do because Johnson has shut down the business of the House. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 5:01 pm

Boris Johnson claims there is "movement under the keel" in negotiations.

As I pointed out on Twitter this is, unsurprisingly, complete nonsense, since (I think) keels are specifically designed so the water moves round them not under.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 5:01 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:From 1997...

Fury as sleaze report buried

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/19 ... vatives.uk
The furore over the suppression of the "cash for questions" report was catapulted into the general election campaign last night when Paddy Ashdown wrote to the prime minister demanding its publication and Tony Blair's office indicated that Labour would harry the Tories over it.

The row will grow with Labour's deputy leader, John Prescott, also writing to John Major today. Labour is expected to accuse Mr Major of proroguing parliament for the longest period since 1918 simply to avoid the embarrassing findings being published.

Does magnitude of circumstances count for anything? Are they proportionate? Does it matter?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 5:04 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Boris Johnson claims there is "movement under the keel" in negotiations.

As I pointed out on Twitter this is, unsurprisingly, complete nonsense, since (I think) keels are specifically designed so the water moves round them not under.

What is Johnson trying to say?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 5:51 pm

gilsey wrote:

Steve Barclay MP
@SteveBarclay
The car industry’s ‘just in time’ supply chains rely on fluid cross-Channel trade routes. >1,100 trucks filled with car parts cross seamlessly from EU into UK each day. We need to start talks now on how we make sure this flow continues if we leave without a deal. /4
6:33 PM · Aug 28, 2019

the stupid burns

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 5:53 pm

Rise in EU citizens not getting UK settled status causes alarm
Proportion being granted pre-settled status – with fewer rights – has risen to 42%
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... atus-alarm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:03 pm

This wins reply of the day on that Twitter.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:06 pm

Off topic.

James Anderson has been ruled out of the rest of the Ashes after suffering a recurrence of his calf injury while playing for Lancashire's 2nd XI in a bid to prove his fitness.

That's a shame.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
After Bercow described the move as a “constitutional outrage”, the leader of the Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, said such remarks were unconstitutional.

Lisvane said Rees-Mogg was “wrong”. He said: “The house’s presiding officer is also the representative of its interests. And if he sees those interests being damaged or threatened, I think it’s reasonable for him to say something about it. And there are examples over history of that taking place.”
Shocked etc.

Rees-Mogg is wrong about everything that matters.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:11 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Ok - cancel that request!

Edited to add - I should be keel-hauled for being so slow, shouldn't I?
it is an anagram?

Yes, it is.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:38 pm

Johnson wants us to feel outrage. Let’s take back control – starting with ourselves
Peter Ormerod
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-emotions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think there are some good observations in this article. I didn't care for it at first but liked it better after re-reading it.

AFinch · Post by **AFinch** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 6:48 pm

Hello. Hope everyone is well, or at least bearing up.

A little something from our Chancellor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Labour/comment ... w_curious/

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 7:17 pm

Parliament had failed on Brexit long before this prorogation
Vernon Bogdanor

"...there is an institutional deadlock that threatens to prevent Johnson from breaking the Brexit deadlock. That can now be broken only by the EU. In fact I suspect that the long prorogation is directed as much at the EU as Westminster, to convince the EU that parliament will not be able to stop a no-deal Brexit."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ve-no-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have patience with me, please, for bringing Bogdanor's latest up again. I'm trying to understand his point. Bogdanor: "That can now be broken only by the EU." What's that, please? How can the EU, "break the Brexit deadlock"?

Johnson's willingness to crash nation and people to get whatever it is he wants is duly noted. What is the EU supposed to do about it?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 7:17 pm

AFinch wrote:Hello. Hope everyone is well, or at least bearing up.

A little something from our Chancellor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Labour/comment ... w_curious/

Yes deleting it seems the worst way to deal with the embarassment. As though we'll forget about it!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 7:47 pm

I note that Javid has had quite an "interesting" week generally........

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 8:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I note that Javid has had quite an "interesting" week generally........

Lots of Cummings and goings, certainly.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 9:00 pm

Most unlikely thing that Sonia Khan will be saying to Sajid Javid: "My hero!"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 9:49 pm

Maybe I'm misjudging him. I've just read this -

'Culture of fear' claims as Javid confronts PM over adviser's sacking

Dominic Cummings tells advisers he’s ‘pissed off’ about briefings on pay and gender balance – report

A furious Sajid Javid confronted Boris Johnson on Friday and demanded an explanation of why his media adviser was sacked without his knowledge, amid claims that a deep “culture of fear” has taken hold within the government.

Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by an armed police officer after a meeting with Johnson’s top strategist, Dominic Cummings, in which she was accused of being dishonest about her contact with the former chancellor Philip Hammond and one of his ex-advisers, who have been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.

Khan is the second adviser working for the chancellor to be sacked by No 10. She is also the fourth young woman in a month to be axed from the prime minister’s network of advisers and senior staffers.(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rs-sacking

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Aug, 2019 9:56 pm