Saturday 31st August & Sunday 1st September 2019

Post by **refitman** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:03 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:37 am

Sajid Javid apparently utterly hopeless on Toady.

Post by **adam** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:39 am

Today I am mostly in a picture in Paul Mason's twitter feed.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:46 am

adam wrote:Today I am mostly in a picture in Paul Mason's twitter feed.

Have a good one!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 10:39 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

James Forsyth
@JGForsyth
Any Tory MP who votes for the extension legislation next week will not be allowed to stand for the party at the next election. Number 10 have decided to treat it as they would a confidence vote

Not sure about the reliability of the source but the tactic certainly seems in keeping with Johnson's general approach.

Is it a credible threat, though? I'm not familiar with Tory party selection rules.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 11:18 am

Morning all.

Is it me is this DT headline just a bit odd.

EU 'wants to extend Article 50 to avoid no deal Brexit' as Eurosceptics say Brussels cracking under pressure

As far as I was aware, it wasn't the EU that asked for 31st Oct - that was us.

Are they getting ready for a "OK, we need more time as we now recognise that No=deal would be a disaster. No biggie. 31st October? Nah, we never really thought that was possible."

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 11:41 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Is it me is this DT headline just a bit odd.

EU 'wants to extend Article 50 to avoid no deal Brexit' as Eurosceptics say Brussels cracking under pressure

As far as I was aware, it wasn't the EU that asked for 31st Oct - that was us.

Are they getting ready for a "OK, we need more time as we now recognise that No=deal would be a disaster. No biggie. 31st October? Nah, we never really thought that was possible."

Without knowing Johnson's primary goal, it's hard to read his strategy. It does seem quite plausible he wants to be thwarted in leaving the EU on 31st Oct so he can use this in an election campaign to win a majority to "deliver Brexit". His tough guy, red lines act is wasted on the EU but doubtless effective on leave supporting voters.

On the other hand his primary goal may actually be a no deal Brexit, in service of his disaster capitalist backers.

Attempting to force him to ask for an extension may still be the best approach, regardless of how he may attempt to use it electorally, not least because parliament retains control, under the FTPA, over when and whether an early election happens.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 11:43 am

Why is this thread only for today?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 12:19 pm

It's traditional of course when a weekend straddles two months to have separate daily threads

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 12:20 pm

Either that or Refitman has successfully asked the Queen for permission to prorogue FlyTheNest

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 12:23 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It's traditional of course when a weekend straddles two months to have separate daily threads

Most "traditions" were actually made up relatively recently. Sort of figures

Post by **adam** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 1:42 pm

Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Is it me is this DT headline just a bit odd.

EU 'wants to extend Article 50 to avoid no deal Brexit' as Eurosceptics say Brussels cracking under pressure

As far as I was aware, it wasn't the EU that asked for 31st Oct - that was us.

Are they getting ready for a "OK, we need more time as we now recognise that No=deal would be a disaster. No biggie. 31st October? Nah, we never really thought that was possible."
Without knowing Johnson's primary goal, it's hard to read his strategy. It does seem quite plausible he wants to be thwarted in leaving the EU on 31st Oct so he can use this in an election campaign to win a majority to "deliver Brexit". His tough guy, red lines act is wasted on the EU but doubtless effective on leave supporting voters.

On the other hand his primary goal may actually be a no deal Brexit, in service of his disaster capitalist backers.

Attempting to force him to ask for an extension may still be the best approach, regardless of how he may attempt to use it electorally, not least because parliament retains control, under the FTPA, over when and whether an early election happens.

The EU have formally said, in response to this, that there is no way they would interfere in the decision making of a member state in this way and it's entirely up to the UK to ask for an extension if they want one.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 1:59 pm

"very middle class" demonstrations",apparently.The class nonsense is pernicious,not least for such appropriation to dismiss.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 2:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why is this thread only for today?

I can neither confirm nor deny being half asleep when I started it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 3:03 pm

refitman wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why is this thread only for today?
I can neither confirm nor deny being half asleep when I started it.

You were what? You haven't heard the end of this. Not by a long chalk.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 3:22 pm

adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Is it me is this DT headline just a bit odd.

EU 'wants to extend Article 50 to avoid no deal Brexit' as Eurosceptics say Brussels cracking under pressure

As far as I was aware, it wasn't the EU that asked for 31st Oct - that was us.

Are they getting ready for a "OK, we need more time as we now recognise that No=deal would be a disaster. No biggie. 31st October? Nah, we never really thought that was possible."
Without knowing Johnson's primary goal, it's hard to read his strategy. It does seem quite plausible he wants to be thwarted in leaving the EU on 31st Oct so he can use this in an election campaign to win a majority to "deliver Brexit". His tough guy, red lines act is wasted on the EU but doubtless effective on leave supporting voters.

On the other hand his primary goal may actually be a no deal Brexit, in service of his disaster capitalist backers.

Attempting to force him to ask for an extension may still be the best approach, regardless of how he may attempt to use it electorally, not least because parliament retains control, under the FTPA, over when and whether an early election happens.
The EU have formally said, in response to this, that there is no way they would interfere in the decision making of a member state in this way and it's entirely up to the UK to ask for an extension if they want one.

I meant for the opposition in parliament to force him to ask, not the EU. I was also assuming the above was referring to Johnson possibly pretending the EU was forcing him to extend as cover for a u-turn.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 4:48 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Either that or Refitman has successfully asked the Queen for permission to prorogue FlyTheNest

[youtube]-tJYN-eG1zk[/youtube]
(sorry)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 5:21 pm

You know when you can see something inevitably happening until it does..

Post by **adam** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:06 pm

Willow904 wrote:
adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Without knowing Johnson's primary goal, it's hard to read his strategy. It does seem quite plausible he wants to be thwarted in leaving the EU on 31st Oct so he can use this in an election campaign to win a majority to "deliver Brexit". His tough guy, red lines act is wasted on the EU but doubtless effective on leave supporting voters.

On the other hand his primary goal may actually be a no deal Brexit, in service of his disaster capitalist backers.

Attempting to force him to ask for an extension may still be the best approach, regardless of how he may attempt to use it electorally, not least because parliament retains control, under the FTPA, over when and whether an early election happens.
The EU have formally said, in response to this, that there is no way they would interfere in the decision making of a member state in this way and it's entirely up to the UK to ask for an extension if they want one.
I meant for the opposition in parliament to force him to ask, not the EU. I was also assuming the above was referring to Johnson possibly pretending the EU was forcing him to extend as cover for a u-turn.

Ah - then yes. There are two other ideas that have drifted out of Downing Street this week - one I think we've had is that he would effectively ignore a vote of no confidence. The other is that he would not advise the Queen to give assent to a bill ruling out no deal (and I think that's the emphasis - he would not advise her to do it rather than 'he would advise her not to'.) I wonder whether, if this nonsense continues, we might actually see a group of conservatives resign the whip when parliament sits next week. I'm still of the 'believe it when I see it' view but it seems more likely than it has done before.

Post by **adam** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:07 pm

PorFavor wrote:
refitman wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Why is this thread only for today?
I can neither confirm nor deny being half asleep when I started it.
You were what? You haven't heard the end of this. Not by a long chalk.

*whispers* See. Culture of fear.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:12 pm

Good afternoon, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:17 pm

PF is indeed the queen,of the gin-soaked bar-room variety.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:19 pm

Not sure if she has been in Memphis.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:30 pm

HindleA wrote:You know when you can see something inevitably happening until it does..

That's not narrowing things down very much right now......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:35 pm

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
refitman wrote: I can neither confirm nor deny being half asleep when I started it.
You were what? You haven't heard the end of this. Not by a long chalk.
*whispers* See. Culture of fear.

You've noticed that my reign of terror continues, then. Fantastic. As Sajid Javid might say.

(Actually, I'm aware that "fantastic" is Boris Johnson's favoured response to anything the common oiks say to him in his "meet the workers" style events. As in, "My granny's just died." "Fantastic!" Sadly, people seem to lap it up.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:39 pm

Football related ,was at Elland Road now passing through Barnsley station.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:40 pm

AKA t'interchange.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 6:46 pm

HindleA wrote:PF is indeed the queen,of the gin-soaked bar-room variety.

[youtube]2lGnafDEy0w[/youtube]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:
adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
You were what? You haven't heard the end of this. Not by a long chalk.
*whispers* See. Culture of fear.

You've noticed that my reign of terror continues, then. Fantastic. As Sajid Javid might say.

(Actually, I'm aware that "fantastic" is Boris Johnson's favoured response to anything the common oiks say to him in his "meet the workers" style events. As in, "My granny's just died." "Fantastic!" Sadly, people seem to lap it up.)

*Some* people do.

He is not unbeatable, and beneath the bluster he knows it himself.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 8:57 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 9:01 pm

@citizenJA

Night night.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Aug, 2019 10:02 pm

PM ‘must launch urgent inquiry into Dominic Cummings’s reign of terror’ (Observer)

I'm sure Dominic Cummings is only interested in the public's safety. I even think that he's in the throes of setting up a committee.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -of-terror

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 8:27 am

Headline in the Sunday Times. Something like "Johnson says to Tory rebels - it's me or Corbyn chaos"

I seem to recall something quite similar before said by a previous PM - how did that work out?

OK, off to France...see you in a week.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 8:55 am

Unsurprisingly, Priti Patel's plans to end freedom of movement on 31 October have been "delayed".

But hey chaos with Jeremy Corbyn would be so much worse.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 9:01 am

Michel Barnier says we will look at alternatives to the backstop after the WA has been signed.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 9:06 am

Philip Hammond says he'd rather lose the Tory whip than vote for No Deal, but hopes it won't come to that.

It's not looking great for BoJo!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 12:18 pm

We are in "interesting" times all right.......

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 1:40 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Met Commissioner says diplomatic leaks in Sir Kim Darroch case 'point to serious crime'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 2:29 pm

Starmer apparently said this morning that Labour now wants to ensure no deal is stopped (on Oct 31 at any rate) before pushing for a GE.

This makes sense IMO given that Johnson is currently getting some support as a "strong leader" who will finally "get Brexit over with".

Having to accede to a further extension of A50 after Halloween would be a major humiliation for him.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 3:44 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Starmer apparently said this morning that Labour now wants to ensure no deal is stopped (on Oct 31 at any rate) before pushing for a GE.

This makes sense IMO given that Johnson is currently getting some support as a "strong leader" who will finally "get Brexit over with".

Having to accede to a further extension of A50 after Halloween would be a major humiliation for him.

An extension and no GE would leave Johnson in Theresa May's shoes, the one place he is least likely to want to be. Whatever his game plan is, it's not going to be death by a thousand lost votes in a hung parliament like his predecessor, is it?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 3:48 pm

I agree. Johnson always has the option of seeking an election.

I think Labour will avoid being seen as actively campaigning for an extension, even if that is a consequence of their policy.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 4:31 pm

And the opposition (not just Labour) can always take the line he can't have that election until no deal on Oct 31 has been averted one way or the other.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 4:39 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I agree. Johnson always has the option of seeking an election.

I think Labour will avoid being seen as actively campaigning for an extension, even if that is a consequence of their policy.

The only way no deal exit on 31st Oct can be averted without pressing for an extension (or revocation, of course) would be to vote through the current WA immediately on resumption of parliament and cancel recess in order to create enough parliamentary time to ratify it. Labour pressing for an extension seems more likely than agreeing to a WA they rejected only a few months ago. What else is possible?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 4:50 pm

Good morfternoon.

‘Get Ready for Brexit’: government launches information blitz

Public advertising campaign said to be country’s biggest ever urges Britons to visit website

Downing Street has previously briefed that the taxpayer-funded advertising campaign will cost up to £100m, although doubts have been raised over whether the government will realistically be able to spend that much on a campaign lasting just two months. One leading ad industry source pointed out that this figure was substantially higher than the amount spent on traditional advertising in the UK by major consumer brands such as Amazon, Tesco and Asda in the whole of 2018.

This suggests that either the government is overstating the amount it intends to spend [lying, to you and me] in an attempt to draw extra attention, or that Downing Street really is launching an advertising campaign that will be unequalled in its ubiquity. (Guardian - my emphasis)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tion-blitz

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 5:26 pm

Hello I'm back (from Outer Space)
Good to see you.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 5:57 pm

Hi Tinyclanger2

Have you returned from outer space to prepare for Brexit?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 6:00 pm

Still seething.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 6:03 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Unsurprisingly, Priti Patel's plans to end freedom of movement on 31 October have been "delayed".

But hey chaos with Jeremy Corbyn would be so much worse.

It's starting to look as if, in the event of a GE, the FT'll be coming out for Labour.

And there's this from Ian Dunt.

Any concerns Conservatives might try to raise about Jeremy Corbyn's radicalism are now dead. For all his faults, he has never once threatened the basic operating model of British democracy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 6:57 pm

Alok Sharma today referred in an interview to "the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell". He could have added "who are no better than they ought to be".

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 01 Sep, 2019 7:00 pm

PorFavor wrote:Alok Sharma today referred in an interview to "the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell". He could have added "who are no better than they ought to be".

Edited for a PTO.