Monday 16th September 2019

Post by **refitman** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 7:04 am

Morning all.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:25 am

Morning all.

So who, and when, was it decided that the way to get people opposed to the NI Backstop was to deem it "anti-democratic"?

I've heard it before and heard it again from Raab this morning.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:43 am

If there's one word I'd ban people from using it's this one.

I passionately believe that I can strike a Brexit deal within weeks

Fed up with people being "passionate" about something.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:49 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:If there's one word I'd ban people from using it's this one.

I passionately believe that I can strike a Brexit deal within weeks
Fed up with people being "passionate" about something.

Ditto, ditto, ditto!

Edited to add -

I thought it might be just me. I've been (passionately) raging, and muttering to myself about it for ages. Literally.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:50 am

Good morfternoon.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 9:03 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

So who, and when, was it decided that the way to get people opposed to the NI Backstop was to deem it "anti-democratic"?

I've heard it before and heard it again from Raab this morning.

Not just me then.

Bakehouse Cottage #FBPE #PeoplesVote
‏@Bakehouse2016
1h1 hour ago
More
“...the anti-democratic backstop” is an expression constantly used by the hardline Brexiteers. But none has explained what precisely is undemocratic about it, including Dominic Raab. Why didn’t you challenge him on that this morning, #r4today?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 9:10 am

I think they believe it is antidemocratic because the backstop means the EU would have influence over UK affairs after we've left it.

But if that arrangement has been agreed by Parliament, it's clearly democratic. The problem is the confusion of "independence" with "democracy". For the extreme Brexiteers, the "fairy tale" is a completely independent UK, with no legal ties to any transnational institution. The bigger lie in a way is that the EU is anti-democratic.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 9:46 am

What the LibDems really need to be quizzed on is what "red lines" they would insist upon should the coalition situation arise. Because that's the only way they will get to be in government - and they have form.

Edited - typo

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:11 am

Indeed, all we really need is for them to be signing huge "REVOKE A50" pledge cards

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:50 am

Yes. I suppose it would be too much to ask of journalists to deal with a possible reality rather than exclusively indulging the LibDem fantasy?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:00 am

Are these the same journalists who insist that Labour's policy on Brexit, though now much simplified, is FAR TOO COMPLICATED to understand?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:11 am

On the Hulk...

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gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:15 am

Seán Jones QC
@seanjonesqc
I understand the temptation to treat leave and remain positions as matching extremes but I don’t see “I want to leave however much hardship it causes others” and “I want to stay to avoid the hardship leaving would cause others” as morally equivalent.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:17 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Are these the same journalists who insist that Labour's policy on Brexit, though now much simplified, is FAR TOO COMPLICATED to understand?

Yes. I'm sick and tired of journalists telling the public that all manner of straightforward issues are "complicated" (ie "too complicated for the likes of you, so go back to watching "Love Island", or whatever the latest is). Journalists have also, of late, been saying, in a matey style, that "things are too complicated even for geniuses such as us - so what hope can people like you possibly have?"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:23 am

Adam Fleming
✔
@adamfleming

According to the reviews of the restaurant where @JunckerEU and @BorisJohnson are rumoured to be lunching in Luxembourg today it’s an excellent place for a business meeting “because the tables are not too close.” Sadly a typo on the website says they serve nails not snails.
146
10:06 AM - Sep 16, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:26 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:On the Hulk...

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Well, you brought up the subject . . .

What is it that Boris Johnson is meant to be angry about?

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:27 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:On the Hulk...
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Further:

https://twitter.com/SteelDalek1/status/ ... 1848716288

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:33 am

Not to mention:

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Mark Ruffalo
@MarkRuffalo
Boris Johnson forgets that the Hulk only fights for the good of the whole. Mad and strong can also be dense and destructive. The Hulk works best when he is in unison with a team, and is a disaster when he is alone. Plus...he’s always got Dr. Banner with science and reason.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 1:18 pm

Juncker reveals after lunch with Boris Johnson he is still waiting to hear workable UK backstop plan (Politics Live, Guardian)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 3:15 pm

According to Jon Stone, Johnson has "chickened out" of the Luxembourg press conference!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 3:35 pm

Interesting that Caroline Lucas has put clear green water between herself and Swinson on "revoke".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 3:53 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Interesting that Caroline Lucas has put clear green water between herself and Swinson on "revoke".

Now, that is a bit of a surprise.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 4:07 pm

We were expecting a joint, open-air press conference but, with a large crowd of anti-Brexit campaigners threatening to drown out Johnson, it was announced that the British PM was not going to take part (presumably because of the demonstration, although that has not officially been confirmed yet). Normally in these circumstances the polite thing to do is to re-arrange. But instead Xavier Bettel, the prime minister of Luxembourg, just went ahead anyway, effectively “empty chairing” his guest. At one point he even gestured at the space where Johnson was supposed to be.

And then Xavier just let rip. People often wonder what EU leaders say or think about Johnson in private. Well, now we know. The leave campaign was a pack of lies, Johnson’s talk of progress in the Brexit talk is unfounded, the UK still has not come up with any ideas. On and on he went, with particular emphasis on the point that the UK, not the EU, was to blame for the crisis. It was a “nightmare” for EU citizen, said Bettel. At several points he was loudly applauded by the protesters, because they felt he was articulating their anger.

Yesterday Johnson depicted himself as the Incredible Hulk. As the Telegraph’s Michael Deacon suggests, the reality could not be more different. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Michael Deacon
✔
@MichaelPDeacon

My favourite episode of The Incredible Hulk is the one where a small group of people shouted too loudly so he ran away
982
3:10 PM - Sep 16, 2019

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 4:16 pm

BBC TV News:

"The Prime Minister speaking with clarity about where we are. But - it's the Prime Minister of Luxembourg."

Blimey.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 4:25 pm

Boris Johnson now claiming that to have gone ahead with the press conference "wouldn't have been fair to Mr Bettel".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 4:33 pm

Like he is normally that fair minded

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 4:52 pm

So many Hulk jokes are available right now

Perhaps this will put an end to the chicken Corbyn line of attack. Well, it ought to.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 5:03 pm

And the Invisible Man is now trending...

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 5:56 pm

This has aged rather well then:

"The Hulk was a winner and was extremely popular," Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay told Sky News.

"I'd rather be backing a character and a leader who is the Hulk than one who is on the Chicken Run, as Jeremy Corbyn is."

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:15 pm

Elsewhere...

Lilac Sky investigation report STILL not published

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/lilac-sky-inv ... published/

The department last year refused to release a copy of the investigation report, requested by Schools Week under freedom of information laws, stating it intended to publish it that academic year (2018-19).

However the investigation – launched more than three years ago – has still to surface.

The actions contradict statements from Lord Agnew, the academies minister, who said in July that academy finances had an “unprecedented level of accountability and transparency”.

Schools Week was again refused access to a copy of the report under FOI this month.

Tanya Arkle, the deputy director of south academies at the Education and Skills Funding Agency, said the investigation had ended and “following internal processes” it “intends to publish a final version of the report this academic year”.

Almost certainly 20th July 2020...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:21 pm

Good evening, everyone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:23 pm

Hilary Benn, the Labour chair of the Commons Brexit committee, has said that Boris Johnson has just four days to publish plans for an alternative to the backstop if he is to honour a promise he made to MPs. Benn has written to Johnson asking when the plans will appear. (Politics Live, Guardian)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:33 pm

An off-topic aside
Luxembourg PM, Xavier Bettel, has a prepossessing countenance, nice smile in his eyes.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... atest-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:34 pm

Just saw this thread on the Sunday telegraph's story about tougher sentencing...and guess what...

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...it's junk. And dangerous junk at that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 6:51 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Just saw this thread on the Sunday telegraph's story about tougher sentencing...and guess what...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...it's junk. And dangerous junk at that.

There is no evidential basis at all for the claim by the ‘anonymous government source’ that “Parliament does not want to do what the people want on crime”. This is a dangerous lie.

It's not Tory government being held to account, the story is monstering Parliament.
That is dangerous.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 7:30 pm

Have I misunderstood, or have the LibDems ruled out both a Coalition, and a Confidence and Supply arrangement?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:03 pm

Faced with a handful of people shouting: “We don’t like you very much,” Johnson imploded under the weight of his own narcissism. The Incredible Bulk morphed from green to yellow and fled sobbing indoors. He’d been in some tricky situations before where the future of the world had been at risk from super-soldiers powered by gamma radiation. But nothing as dangerous as this.

John Crace

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:05 pm

Labour have called on Liz Truss to resign as international trade secretary after she admitted her department allowed the sale of arms and military equipment that could be used by the Saudi regime in the conflict in Yemen.

In June, the court of appeal ruled that British arms sales to the kingdom were unlawful and the government undertook not to grant any new licences for equipment that “might be used in the conflict in Yemen”.

In a letter to the chair of the Commons committees on arms export controls, Liz Truss has admitted to a series of breaches.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... df5bdd598c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:16 pm

The prime minister insisted again on Monday that he wants a deal with Brussels that removes the Northern Ireland backstop. But even if he secures some concessions that he can sell as a new deal, his chances of getting that agreement through the House of Commons remain extremely finely balanced.

On the current numbers, he has 287 MPs who voted for a deal last time, while there are 289 MPs from opposition parties and independents who are against a deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -agreement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What deal? Which vote in Parliament? When? The article doesn't specify and goes on and on regardless.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 8:17 pm

PorFavor wrote:Have I misunderstood, or have the LibDems ruled out both a Coalition, and a Confidence and Supply arrangement?

I can't find anything. I'm sorry.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 9:57 pm

Oh, by the way - the BBC is back in line now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:Oh, by the way - the BBC is back in line now.

I suspected it wouldn't last.

Post by **adam** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:17 pm

GetYou wrote:This has aged rather well then:

"The Hulk was a winner and was extremely popular," Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay told Sky News.

"I'd rather be backing a character and a leader who is the Hulk than one who is on the Chicken Run, as Jeremy Corbyn is."

I would like to say, here, that Chicken Run is a film about a heroic group of chickens who escape from the pie factory, and in doing so show up the bombastic rooster who tries to take charge of them as being a worthless fool. You will decipher this how you will.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:23 pm

There were flocks of small birds passing overhead at speed today. I can't possibly comment on what species of bird they looked like to me.

Edited to add

Moving swiftly on . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:There were flocks of small birds passing overhead at speed today. I can't possibly comment on what species of bird they looked like to me.

Are they doing coordinated, circular flight path manoeuvrers in beautiful formation? They're getting ready to head South, I think. Glorious to watch.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:27 pm

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:29 pm

@citizenJA

Night night.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 10:39 pm

Stretched officials say UK's ability to hold snap elections is at risk

Expectation that elections can always be safely delivered is getting unrealistic, says report
(Guardian)

The place is falling apart.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tions-risk

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Sep, 2019 11:35 pm

I very rarely watch the Last Night of the Proms because of all the flag waving and bobbing up and down silliness. But I did this time round but can't say that I actually noticed the EU flags at all.

But someone did and got very triggered by it.

Could the Remainer luvvies who hijacked the Proms look any more out of touch?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... ook-touch/

On Saturday, many people around the country tuned into the Last Night of the Proms, hoping for a lovely evening of classical music and relaxation. But instead they discovered that the event had been hijacked by militant Remainers.

As if these individuals hadn’t kicked up enough of a stink already, with the endless protests around London (where most of them live), they decided to ruin one of the UK’s most popular events. One that should remain free from Brexit and the worldview of the Southern elite.

It has to be said that the right have a rare ability to write some stupendously silly stuff. "My whole evening was ruined by a few people waving different flags to normal!"