Tuesday 24th September 2019

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 6:29 am

Morning.
Thought for the day.

"Go to Cambridge and you might end up like Allison Pearsion-scary"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 6:45 am

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 6:58 am

@Adam

Thanks for the reply last night.

My guess is that Johnson will think he's taken us out, because Article 50 hasn't been extended, but that the legality of that will be in doubt, so that he is in contempt of Parliament and perhaps even of the Supreme Court.

Anyway Supreme Court to look forward to today.

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 8:19 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@Adam

Thanks for the reply last night.

My guess is that Johnson will think he's taken us out, because Article 50 hasn't been extended, but that the legality of that will be in doubt, so that he is in contempt of Parliament and perhaps even of the Supreme Court.

Anyway Supreme Court to look forward to today.

I suspect that whilst they would be on the look out for an available fudge, this is the kind of thing where the rest of the EU have consistently said 'we don't get involved in member states' decision making'. And if the Benn Act is going to have an effect it won't be at the last second - the idea of it is to make sure things are resolved in advance. Of course we can only mandate ourselves - in a conspiracist kind of way, I imagine part of Johnson's schtick at the moment is trying to make sure that at least one other EU state will say 'why do we want to extend anyway?'

Given the way it's been trailed and analysed I look forward to hearing the SC confirm the Government's right to do as it will this morning.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 8:48 am

But perhaps with a caveat Adam.

I hope so anyway.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:04 am

Good morning, everyone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:32 am

Good morfternoon.

Problem with the sound at the Supreme Court.

Ah - it's been sorted out.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:35 am

It is justiciable.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:38 am

A decision to prorogue will be unlawful if the effect is preventing without reasonable cause the working of Parliament.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:39 am

No need to consider whether Johnson broke the law.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:40 am

Distinguishing between prorogation and recess.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:40 am

The Government have surely lost.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:42 am

Bound to conclude that the decision was unlawful because prevented ability of Parliament to carry out constitutional function without reasonable justification.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:44 am

Parliament has not been prorogued.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:44 am

Over to the Speaker . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:44 am

Or not?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:45 am

Well well.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:46 am

Well.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:46 am

Another rubbing out in my diary (State Opening of Parliament).

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:47 am

From AS

Code: Select all

Hale says prorogation 'unlawful, void and of no effect'
Hale says prorogation is not a proceeding in parliament.

Although it takes place in parliament, it is not their decision. It is something that has been imposed on them from outside.

The PM’s advice to Her Majest was “unlawful, void and of no effect”.

That means the order in council was also “unlawful, void and of no effect”.

That means the prorogation had no effect. She says it is as if the royal commission had no effect.

Parliament has not been prorogued, she says.

She says it is for the Speaker to decide what happens next.

S/be Speakers (pl.)

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:47 am

Unanimous decision too.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:51 am

The result could be Tom Watson having to walk out of his own speech.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:53 am

Dawn Foster
@DawnHFoster
·
42s
Can’t believe the Queen’s going to jail

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:53 am

David Allen Green
‏
@davidallengreen
4m4 minutes ago
More
In all seriousness, the prime minister should resign now

That was as devastating a judgment as could be

And unanimous

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:53 am

Be a laugh if the Commons prevents the Conservatives from going into recess for their Conference!

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:56 am

Thanks to the Supreme Court, not least for giving the liberal centrists something else to talk about.

I think of myself as the most ultra of remainers and I have no problem with Labour's position at all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:57 am

PorFavor wrote:Be a laugh if the Commons prevents the Conservatives from going into recess for their Conference!

I'm fully expecting Jezza to hop on the next train from Brighton and ask Bercow if he can give his speech in Parliament instead.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:58 am

Bercow will consult party leaders asap.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:58 am

Anna Soubry muscling in and trying to catch some of the limelight (Sky TV).

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 10:58 am

The express comments are restrained and accepting of the rule of law as you would expect.

: Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.56.54.png (75.83 KiB) Viewed 7792 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:02 am

Jeremy Corbyn is currently addressing the Labour Party Conference as a result of the verdict.

Edited - typo

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:02 am

"We want to take back control!"

*stuff happens*

"No! Not like that!"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:03 am

gilsey wrote:Thanks to the Supreme Court, not least for giving the liberal centrists something else to talk about.

I think of myself as the most ultra of remainers and I have no problem with Labour's position at all.

I agree with you

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:07 am

PorFavor wrote:Be a laugh if the Commons prevents the Conservatives from going into recess for their Conference!

Yep. The Tory party are subservient to Parliament.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:08 am

adam wrote:The express comments are restrained and accepting of the rule of law as you would expect.

Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.56.54.png

Surely some of those comments and\or the Express are breaking some sort of law.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:14 am

Thomas Cogley
@JohnnyPixels
It's only Tuesday and already a second group of people have had their holidays cut short

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:18 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The result could be Tom Watson having to walk out of his own speech.

Well, he's going to have to grab the headlines somehow.....

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:28 am

From the conclusion to the judgement

It follows that Parliament has not been prorogued and that this court should make declarations to that effect. We have been told by counsel for the Prime Minister that he will “take all necessary steps to comply with the terms of any declaration made by the court” and we expect him to do so. However, it appears to us that, as Parliament is not prorogued, it is for Parliament to decide what to do next. There is no need for Parliament to be recalled under the Meeting of Parliament Act 1797. Nor has Parliament voted to adjourn or go into recess. Unless there is some Parliamentary rule to the contrary of which we are unaware, the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Lord Speaker can take immediate steps to enable each House to meet as soon as possible to decide upon a way forward. That would, of course, be a proceeding in Parliament which could not be called in question in this or any other court.

In other words - Johnson said 'We will pay attention and decide what to do next'. The court says 'It's not up to you'.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:34 am

Alex Andreou
‏
Verified account

@sturdyAlex
9m9 minutes ago
More
Andrew Bridgen losing his mind on BBC. Describes the decision as "disgusting". Apparently, "Parliament is holding our democracy to ransom."

Take a moment to digest that sentence.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:37 am

Dawn Foster

Look, if you don’t send the Queen to prison, you are just going to get millions of teenagers copying her, getting drunk and proroguing parliament.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:47 am

Watson fed Peston that line yesterday about communist China, didn't he?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:50 am

Guy Verhofstadt
✔
@guyverhofstadt

At least one big relief in the Brexit saga: the rule of law in the UK is alive & kicking. Parliaments should never be silenced in a real democracy.

I never want to hear Boris Johnson or any other Brexiteer say again that the European Union is undemocratic.
5,722
11:21 AM - Sep 24, 2019 (Politics Live, Guardian- my emphasis)

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:54 am

If the session isn't being prorogued, then Johnson can't bring a bill approving May's deal back to Parliament this side of a 'normal' prorogation and a new Queen's Speech.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 11:56 am

11-0

Both surprising and not. The Supreme Court were given little choice, imo. They had to rule it justiciable else this instance could be used as a precedent to justify ever increasing liberties by the executive and having ruled it justiciable it really would have been quite remarkable if they then disagreed with the Scottish Court that this prorogation was unlawful.

The most interesting bit is the SC directions of what should happen next as although it is completely logical and obvious I have to confess I didn't anticipate this and I'm not sure No. 10 did either. I've heard two calls for Johnson's resignation since turning on the tv just 10 minutes ago. Something else I'm not sure No. 10 anticipated, but that unanimous ruling is a very strong indictment of his behaviour and I really can't see how he can continue.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:00 pm

Willow904 wrote:but that unanimous ruling is a very strong indictment of his behaviour and I really can't see how he can continue.

I expect he will, though.

Expect his captive press to be more deranged than ever before in tonight's editions.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:01 pm

Government Whips office telling Conservative MPs not to comment on the ruling.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:05 pm

Boris Johnson is apparently taking time to consider his next lie.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:25 pm

Corbyn will give speech this afternoon. Parliament to reopen tomorrow.

#PMQs anyone?

Post by **adam** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:26 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Corbyn will give speech this afternoon. Parliament to reopen tomorrow.

#PMQs anyone?

Apparently not - not enough notice, but no problem with urgent questions and SO24 applications.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 24 Sep, 2019 12:29 pm

I somehow doubt that Dominic Cummings will be in No 10 long after the PM returns.

Can't imagine that JRM will be around long either - it's as much his failure.