Tuesday 1st October 2019

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:53 am

Morning.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 5:38 am

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/ ... eath-at-27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 5:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... servatives" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 5:41 am

". I have been raising the issue of Islamophobia within my party for nearly four years and have often been asked whether it is “as bad as Labour antisemitism”. I have refused to engage in this debate, because those who do are no friends of any minority. I will not play “Muslim victimhood” versus “Jewish victimhood” or any other form of racism – those of us who truly care about equality believe all need protection."

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 8:46 am

Morning all.

I saw some of baroness Warsi's tweets about this yesterday. Have a look at the behaviour of Trevor Philips in this.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 9:34 am

Michael Rosen gave Haroon Siddique a bit of a kicking, on twitter, over his reporting of Toby Young. The fact that that he omitted Young was being anti-Semitic himself.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:15 am

Good morfternoon.

I haven't seen the "Brexit" countdown clock lately.

Post by **adam** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:23 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I haven't seen the "Brexit" countdown clock lately.

: clock-with-many-hands-CR3RTG.jpg (18.86 KiB) Viewed 8628 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:25 am

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:30 am

Still, as Boris Johnson has just said, "It's early days."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:38 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FWIW I do wish the increasingly irrelevant "class"stuff wasn't sausage mixed regardless.Not only does becoming ill etc not give a fart what class you are it just aids the "othering"thing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:41 am

It's the deserving/undeserving thing in reverse and equally bollox.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:50 am

I find the idea that experience is somehow graded on a sliding scale as to effects by income/status/class however defined,repulsive

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:54 am

You don't have to fit the sufficiently pathetic straitjacket attempts of left and right to feel.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 10:56 am

And of course conform to it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:07 am

The big debate today is should I risk listening to the Leeds v WBA and scupper their chances of an actual win,or is it just my being there that has that effect?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:08 am

I originally intended to go but temporarily banned myself (until the 19th)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:11 am

Peter Foster
✔
@pmdfoster

SO. Can confirm, per source, that this plan reported by @tconnellyRTE IS indeed in the UK #Brexit backstop proposal that Boris Johnson will start to brief to EU Leaders tomorrow, per @Telegraph - utterly extraordinary /1https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/30 ... within-24/ … " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … (Politics Live, Guardian)

Edited to add -

The plan, referred to above, being the customs post one.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:19 am

Be fair,how do they know bollocking nonsense advances are bollocking nonsense until they are advanced?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:24 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn

FWIW I do wish the increasingly irrelevant "class"stuff wasn't sausage mixed regardless.Not only does becoming ill etc not give a fart what class you are it just aids the "othering"thing.

I think Ryan is talking about attitudes, rather than realities and in that sense I think she's right. Healthy middle class people can't envisage themselves as in need of social security, even though they are just as vulnerable to redundancy and illness as people on much lower incomes. They therefore think of "benefits" as being for other people and don't care they are being cut because they don't realise it's their social security that's being slashed as well, not just "poor" people's. Until voters work out the Tories only look after the very wealthy and that means only those on £50,000+, thus a mere 10% of the population, we will continue to have people voting away the rights and benefits of "other" people which, in fact, is actually themselves. How much this is aspiration ("I might earn a lot one day and don't want to lose it in tax") I don't know, but there really are an awful lot of people out there voting for extra stuff for people better off than themselves at their own expense there ought to be a name for it. Stupidity doesn't quite cover it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:25 am

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2019/1 ... ainlyMacro+(mainly+macro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)&m=1

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:38 am

@Willow,my point is in (re)presentation such incorrect assumptions/views are not only retained but amplified.You've done it yourself with the middle class don't give a shit line ,at least in part because of not confirming to this misrepresentation,equally by the left,of what benefits actually are and who applied to,as you say.The biggie of course is the State pension,which many,regardless of the wingism,categorise/wish to as somehow separate and/or more deserving.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 11:56 am

Not being dressed in rags,regularly visiting food banks and generally conforming to some on the left's view of sufficiently deserving enough to be used to scream fuck the Tories doesn't lessen the experience.Such things only take a crow bar to division.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 12:15 pm

HindleA wrote:@Willow,my point is in (re)presentation such incorrect assumptions/views are not only retained but amplified.You've done it yourself with the middle class don't give a shit line ,at least in part because of not confirming to this misrepresentation,equally by the left,of what benefits actually are and who applied to,as you say.The biggie of course is the State pension,which many,regardless of the wingism,categorise/wish to as somehow separate and/or more deserving.

Yes, I agree with the amplification problem, but isn't Ryan saying this is the narrative we have to change? This idea that has been deliberately entrenched that benefits are for "other" people? I don't really know how you discuss the problems of the current dominating mindset without mentioning that mindset. There have been so many newspaper articles over the years about people on good incomes rapidly ending up on the poverty line after suffering ill health and being surprised at how little safety net there actually is, that the idea some middle class people don't understand what they're voting for is not an unfair one. The reason I focus on the middle class, rather than lower paid working class who vote Tory for whatever reason, is they are the ones who need to be convinced of the worth of a decent safety net to everyone, not just "others", because they are the ones, ultimately, who will need to pay more.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 12:30 pm

My biggest bugbear, fwiw, is the complaint of "paying for other people's children"

We have all been children ffs and someone else somewhere would have similarly paid for us - benefits for children have been around since 1945, tax credits since 1909. Resenting today's child getting the kind of support you have almost definitely benefited from yourself is an attitude I find particularly difficult to have any patience with. The mindset that leads to such miserly and spiteful thinking is unfathomable to me.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 12:30 pm

HindleA wrote:The big debate today is should I risk listening to the Leeds v WBA and scupper their chances of an actual win,or is it just my being there that has that effect?

Ah, a fixture with historical resonance for you lot!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 12:50 pm

Willow904 wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... emy-corbyn

FWIW I do wish the increasingly irrelevant "class"stuff wasn't sausage mixed regardless.Not only does becoming ill etc not give a fart what class you are it just aids the "othering"thing.
I think Ryan is talking about attitudes, rather than realities and in that sense I think she's right. Healthy middle class people can't envisage themselves as in need of social security, even though they are just as vulnerable to redundancy and illness as people on much lower incomes. They therefore think of "benefits" as being for other people and don't care they are being cut because they don't realise it's their social security that's being slashed as well, not just "poor" people's. Until voters work out the Tories only look after the very wealthy and that means only those on £50,000+, thus a mere 10% of the population, we will continue to have people voting away the rights and benefits of "other" people which, in fact, is actually themselves. How much this is aspiration ("I might earn a lot one day and don't want to lose it in tax") I don't know, but there really are an awful lot of people out there voting for extra stuff for people better off than themselves at their own expense there ought to be a name for it. Stupidity doesn't quite cover it.

We identify with that which is or seems greater than ourselves. I think it's intrinsically human, looking for glory, wanting part of that power. The 'greater than ourselves' and 'glory' varies. A lot of money goes into influencing our decisions and desires - advertising. It works. What works on some doesn't work on others; we're not machines. Influencing others needn't be a harmful thing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 12:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Peter Foster
✔
@pmdfoster

SO. Can confirm, per source, that this plan reported by @tconnellyRTE IS indeed in the UK #Brexit backstop proposal that Boris Johnson will start to brief to EU Leaders tomorrow, per @Telegraph - utterly extraordinary /1https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/30 ... within-24/ … " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … (Politics Live, Guardian)
Edited to add -

The plan, referred to above, being the customs post one.

I mean, is it just going to be laughed out by them?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:02 pm

Willow904 wrote:My biggest bugbear, fwiw, is the complaint of "paying for other people's children"

We have all been children ffs and someone else somewhere would have similarly paid for us - benefits for children have been around since 1945, tax credits since 1909. Resenting today's child getting the kind of support you have almost definitely benefited from yourself is an attitude I find particularly difficult to have any patience with. The mindset that leads to such miserly and spiteful thinking is unfathomable to me.

Yes, I've got a problem with those begrudging others' children. They don't usually stop there. Everyone becomes superfluous. Trauma and fear - that's where misers come from. Not all people experiencing trauma and fear end up misers. People are different; experiences are different. I've had great teachers and people who've loved me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:03 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Peter Foster
✔
@pmdfoster

SO. Can confirm, per source, that this plan reported by @tconnellyRTE IS indeed in the UK #Brexit backstop proposal that Boris Johnson will start to brief to EU Leaders tomorrow, per @Telegraph - utterly extraordinary /1https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/30 ... within-24/ … " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … (Politics Live, Guardian)
Edited to add -

The plan, referred to above, being the customs post one.
I mean, is it just going to be laughed out by them?

Hasn't it already been laughed out the room?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:07 pm

Probably.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:08 pm

https://www.change.org/p/home-office-he ... 0773949cd5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:13 pm

Some of us are still children and refuse all attempts,Governmental or otherwise ,to change.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:34 pm

[youtube]zud5vwvwBDs[/youtube]

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:42 pm

Is that football and boxing combined? (I don't really follow sport.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 1:49 pm

Tartan rug making competition that got out of hand.(@1.15)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:05 pm

Screaming "Fuck the Tories" is equally legitimate,regardless,was my attempted point

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:16 pm

@willow re the class thing-middle class people receive benefits,indeed more likely to, than the poor/oppressed etc and for longer,benefits saves countless amounts on acceptance of non mass-extermination;to begrudge payment towards is an exercise in paying more to harmful effects,equally potentially applicable to yourself.I just think class based analysis dirties the clear mutual beneficial case.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:22 pm

[quote]Police called to incident at Tory conference (Politics Live, Guardian)[quote]

Has Dominic Cummings sacked someone else, then?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:26 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -level-ons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another Tory record number

Post by **adam** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:27 pm

: Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 14.26.41.png (40.42 KiB) Viewed 8414 times

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:39 pm

"Remember You're A CockWomble"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:40 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -level-ons

Another Tory record number

"There is no such thing as society".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:53 pm

"Homeless corpses?Aren't they the non-people you step over when you are coming out of the opera"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:57 pm

An updated adapted "witticism"(turdism)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:59 pm

"Toryturdism"but is there any other kind?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 2:59 pm

Apologies to turds.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 3:05 pm

HindleA wrote:Apologies to turds.

Which, at the end of the day, perform a necessary biological function. Tories on the other hand......

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 3:40 pm

If I slapped the face of a Tory Minister with a dead fish would I be judged innocent until such times it could be ascertained if the dead fish gave it's consent?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Oct, 2019 3:42 pm

I wouldn't do ,to be clear just a thought.