Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th October 2019

Post by **refitman** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 6:47 am

Morning all.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:09 am

Anybody about?

Early finish yesterday.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:35 am

Good morning. Couple of pieces I haven't read yet.

Wren-Lewis
Should a second referendum happen before the General Election and what should accompany Remain on the ballot?

Ann Pettifor
High finance is wrecking the economy and the planet—but it won’t reform itself

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 11:11 am

Thanks for the links gilsey.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 11:12 am

This Hungary veto idea.

I'm presuming it's completely implausible?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 11:44 am

It is *possible*, and that alone is enough to get the usual suspects highly excited. But for a thousand and one reasons, it is thoroughly implausible.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 11:48 am

Thanks for the reassurance Anatoly.

I can see that Johnson needs to continue to have the appearance of a plan. But this one is pretty desperate.

"It's all Hungary's fault for not vetoing our request" isn't number one on the list of scapegoating opportunities!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 12:13 pm

gilsey wrote:Good morning. Couple of pieces I haven't read yet.

Wren-Lewis
Should a second referendum happen before the General Election and what should accompany Remain on the ballot?

Ann Pettifor
High finance is wrecking the economy and the planet—but it won’t reform itself

The question isn't so much if there "should" be a referendum before a GE, but whether there *can* be.

Even in the unlikely event of the current Commons voting for one, how could a Johnson government be made to cooperate? And if he goes and is replaced by another inevitably unstable minority administration, even if they want to go ahead passing the legislation without a majority will be no picnic.

People don't want a GE soon just for its own sake, but because it *might* provide a more stable environment to do things.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 5:21 pm

Good afternoon, everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 5:31 pm

I was wondering where you were (not to mention PF and AH)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 5:47 pm

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/chi ... ad-3383846" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Care home for young adults in Radstock has 'widespread and systemic' failings a year after receiving 'good' CQC rating

I've been seeing a lot of these sorts of stories lately and they all seem to involve the Priory Group. Particularly odd how it suddenly went down hill having previously been ok. What's going on?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 5:54 pm

Afternoon all - a day up in that London at the library.

Some funny goings on in my neck of the woods regarding a nomination process to replace Mike Gapes who jumped ship. This is from the council leader who was probably the front runner.

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The process itself has now been suspended.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 6:27 pm

Its about alleged sexual misdeeds, apparently. Though "front runner" maybe does a disservice to Sam Tarry who had more nominations.

(Labour's candidate in Mark Field's seat also suspended on similar claims)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 6:34 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I was wondering where you were (not to mention PF and AH)

I'm sorry...I let the ten thousand things pull me in all different directions and realise when the twilight comes I've not yet said, 'good morning everyone'. We should get the flythenest lair organised; preferably on the continent. A commune arrangement with separate apartments, of course, but with central areas for talking, organising daily work schedules and eating. I need a good administrator directing my energies.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 6:46 pm

Willow904 wrote:https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/chi ... ad-3383846

Care home for young adults in Radstock has 'widespread and systemic' failings a year after receiving 'good' CQC rating
I've been seeing a lot of these sorts of stories lately and they all seem to involve the Priory Group. Particularly odd how it suddenly went down hill having previously been ok. What's going on?

"...Everyone we knew and trusted seemed to be leaving or left.”
---
"...the under-resourced staff failed to report neglect. The inspectors reported “widespread and systemic failings”, saying: “The failures to meet standards were compounded by a lack of effective leadership.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 7:20 pm

Our economic system is inadequate and often the specific cause of failure.

Post by **adam** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 9:46 pm

I went to see 'Bait' today and very very thoroughly recommend it.

[youtube]eVlPl0SXFiE[/youtube]

Shot on 16mm film in clockwork cameras without sound, with dialogue recorded later and the rest of the soundcape also recorded for the edit.

Post by **adam** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:01 pm

I see the press are very unhappy about Prince Harry's decision to take on the press.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:32 pm

adam wrote:I see the press are very unhappy about Prince Harry's decision to take on the press.

Its striking how much of a self-protective cartel they are these days (with only a few honourable exceptions)

What The Papers Say would never be accepted by them now.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:35 pm

Making myself sick at the "Cheese Cake Cafe" ;felt obliged to make my through the menu for the sake of "relations"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 05 Oct, 2019 10:52 pm

HindleA wrote:Making myself sick at the "Cheese Cake Cafe" ;felt obliged to make my through the menu for the sake of "relations"

I love cheese cake

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 12:19 am

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

Post by **adam** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 9:31 am

Government delayed taking steps to safeguard medical supplies in the event of leaving without a withdrawal agreement because their leadership contest got in the way.

Tory election delayed plans to secure key medical supplies before Brexit

“The work on this procurement probably started back in June,” she said. “It is probably fair to say, through June and July, the time of the Conservative leadership election, there was rather more reluctance than might otherwise have been the case for ministers to take firm decisions about no-deal planning when they were anticipating a new government being appointed very soon. The consideration was that some decisions were more appropriately taken by new ministers.

Permanent Secretary, Department of Transport.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 10:22 am

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#FilthyPieceOfToeRag is now trending...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:00 am

That doesn't fit the usual vox pop agenda

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:15 am

#TFPOF

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:17 am

#ThatFilthyPieceOfToerag

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 12:17 pm

RIP Ginger Baker

Can't say I've listened to anything from him for a long while but might dig the old Cream albums out and give them a play.

Edit - of course, he's on PiL's Play so that'll get an airing too.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 12:38 pm

Latest wheeze is to have John Bercow as a "unity PM", then?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 2:40 pm

Latest polls show Tory lead increasing. I know pollls, schmolls and everything, but, really, what does it say about the UK?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 3:24 pm

Sorry and not picking on you, really - but its a single poll. People using "polls" thus has always irked me.

And it puts Tories and BxP on a wholly implausible 50% combined, so can be critiqued (if not dismissed) for that alone.

Left wingers may not like to quote the living Hitchens brother, but what he said about opinion polling has a grain of truth nonetheless.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 3:56 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Latest polls show Tory lead increasing. I know pollls, schmolls and everything, but, really, what does it say about the UK?

I've attempted responding to a couple posts here this morning. I've many thoughts. I'm having difficulty writing clearly today.

I've read Gary Younge's article up on Friday and the many of the comments beneath it. It was useful. Tory government have abandoned the best interests of most people and they've nothing rational to offer. Inadequate Tory government is intentionally using fear, confusion and destabilising, illegal manoeuvrers for prolongation of Johnson's corrupt leadership. It's as untrustworthy as it is dangerous. I can only encourage everyone to keep family, friends and community close and take care of each other. Keep connecting with others but take time to rest and care for yourselves. Love remains; remember that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:01 pm

Mr citizen and I are taking the extraordinary step of meeting with HindleA and (hopefully) Sky soon. The lasagna matter hasn't been adequately explained and we'd like answers. I trust we'll have a peaceful resolution.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:03 pm

Keep us updated......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:08 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Sorry and not picking on you, really - but its a single poll. People using "polls" thus has always irked me.

And it puts Tories and BxP on a wholly implausible 50% combined, so can be critiqued (if not dismissed) for that alone.

Left wingers may not like to quote the living Hitchens brother, but what he said about opinion polling has a grain of truth nonetheless.

I don't believe most people support what's passing as current government. I'll accept the truth when it arrives.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:09 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Latest wheeze is to have John Bercow as a "unity PM", then?

Anything to divert attention from Tory meltdown

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:13 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Keep us updated......

I'm still waiting for a response to my cheese cake interest last night. I don't suspect a major dissipation preventing communication.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:14 pm

Please help yourselves to the chocolate. Now I've actually posted something, I'm going for it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 4:29 pm

adam wrote:Government delayed taking steps to safeguard medical supplies in the event of leaving without a withdrawal agreement because their leadership contest got in the way.
Tory election delayed plans to secure key medical supplies before Brexit
---

...a report by the National Audit Office (NAO) ... warned that ministers would not know if there were enough medicines, medical supplies or freight capacity to support the NHS if the UK left the EU without a deal at the end of the month.

Responding to the NAO report, a Department of Health and Social Care spokesman said: “We want to reassure patients that we are doing everything we can.” The government says it has mounted an unprecedented response to the difficulties posed by no-deal Brexit and that stockpiles were increasing each day.

(cJA edit)
Mount a precedented response and go away.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 5:20 pm

No - it isn’t a single poll, it’s every poll. And with small moments of exception, during the course of my life Brits just keep voting to get shat on.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 5:36 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:No - it isn’t a single poll, it’s every poll. And with small moments of exception, during the course of my life Brits just keep voting to get shat on.

Every poll does not put the Tories ahead by double figures, no.

I know its easy to get frustrated. But think of it this way - Johnson is the last throw of the bad guys to hold on to power. Sink him, and they really don't have much left.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 6:15 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:No - it isn’t a single poll, it’s every poll. And with small moments of exception, during the course of my life Brits just keep voting to get shat on.

I didn't grow up in the UK but it's now my only home. The constitutional monarchy is power without democratic accountability. My allegiance is to all life and earth and I'll only kneel to children; I've a duty towards them. I'm a human being equal to every other and inferior to none.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 6:19 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:No - it isn’t a single poll, it’s every poll. And with small moments of exception, during the course of my life Brits just keep voting to get shat on.
Every poll does not put the Tories ahead by double figures, no.

I know its easy to get frustrated. But think of it this way - Johnson is the last throw of the bad guys to hold on to power. Sink him, and they really don't have much left.

from your mouth to gods' ears

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 7:43 pm

And, moreover, a v significant proportion of our ‘elected represenatives’ have stemmed from the aristocratic end of the spectrum. Cameron and Johnson being particular cases in point. There are profound problems with our political system, stemming at least in part from profound problems with our educational system, including, but not restricted to the (effectively) two-party option, FPTP and the way candidates are selected.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 8:54 pm

So the question is what are the options to at least getting the silver lining of complete political overhaul from the nightmare that is Brexit?

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 10:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Every poll does not put the Tories ahead by double figures, no.

I know its easy to get frustrated. But think of it this way - Johnson is the last throw of the bad guys to hold on to power. Sink him, and they really don't have much left.

Every polling company bar one (Comres) has the tories at least 12 points ahead. And that's because ComRes assume a vastly higher voter turnout amongst 'young people' than all the rest. So beating Johnson is reliant upon getting said 'young people' to vote. A demographic which has proved to be a bit capricious.

And Johnson isn't the last monster. What about Raab or Patel, politics never stops, it's a process, a mandala of shit that never ends.

Wishful thinking will solve nothing.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 10:51 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:So the question is what are the options to at least getting the silver lining of complete political overhaul from the nightmare that is Brexit?

Labour would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into changing any electoral laws they see as giving them an advantage. They're as ruthless and shameless as the tories.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:05 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Every poll does not put the Tories ahead by double figures, no.

I know its easy to get frustrated. But think of it this way - Johnson is the last throw of the bad guys to hold on to power. Sink him, and they really don't have much left.
Every polling company bar one (Comres) has the tories at least 12 points ahead. And that's because ComRes assume a vastly higher voter turnout amongst 'young people' than all the rest. So beating Johnson is reliant upon getting said 'young people' to vote. A demographic which has proved to be a bit capricious.

And Johnson isn't the last monster. What about Raab or Patel, politics never stops, it's a process, a mandala of shit that never ends.

Wishful thinking will solve nothing.

Nah - there's also Survation, Ipsos-Mori, BMG, Deltapoll and others.

In actual fact YouGov and Opinium are almost the only two giving double figure leads. The suspicion is that they heavily downweight the sort of voters who gave Labour a good result in 2017. The latest Opinium also has Tory/BxP combined at 50% - ridiculously high.

Polling is something I have followed for 40-odd years and know a bit about, just saying

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:10 pm

citizenJA wrote:I'm a human being equal to every other and inferior to none.

Fuck yeah!

Well besides Kurt Gödel or Paul Dirac or other people much smarter than us.

It's no shame to be dumber than a mathematical genius who proved our existence and all its struggles were pointless.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 06 Oct, 2019 11:15 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:Making myself sick at the "Cheese Cake Cafe" ;felt obliged to make my through the menu for the sake of "relations"
I love cheese cake

Only one small art of what was on offer,a well known establishment in the centre.I concentrated on the crepes and ten tonnes/kilos of sugar that kind of thing.

PTO