Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Morning all.
Rugby nerves
Rugby nerves
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
ERG reported to be advising members to vote for the deal.
I still believe in a town called Hope
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
"Bercow says he has selected the Letwin amendment for debate, and also Kyle-Wilson amendment to the second motion."
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Getting a bit pissed off with dissing of forum,there was enough of this bullshit from the" I can't post apart from saying you are shitists"
If you can't say something nice and all that ..
If you can't say something nice and all that ..
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Who has been "dissing"?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -two-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... rns-tenant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Perhaps,incorrect word,of course it can be self fulfilling as was the case for the leavers creating a safe place for themselves to freely slag off and make here unsafe .That being the case I'll say no more.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Why?Sky News Breaking
@SkyNewsBreak
Downing Street Source: The Government will delay the vote on Boris Johnson's Brexit deal to Tuesday if MPs approve an amendment which forces the Prime Minister to seek an extension to Brexit
Anyway, looks like if the Letwin amendment passes, no 10 will have no choice but send an extension request.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Lots of tetchiness and grumpiness on twitter today.
Corbyn keeping it simple.
"This deal is worse than the last one."
He's not wrong. He's also right about the staggering lack of detail or forecasts.
If Labour MPs are involved in getting it through in any way and aren't sanctioned at all it's not going to go down well with Labour supporters. There's supporting Brexit and then there's supporting this deal and the latter from someone supposedly on the left is unforgivable.
Corbyn keeping it simple.
"This deal is worse than the last one."
He's not wrong. He's also right about the staggering lack of detail or forecasts.
If Labour MPs are involved in getting it through in any way and aren't sanctioned at all it's not going to go down well with Labour supporters. There's supporting Brexit and then there's supporting this deal and the latter from someone supposedly on the left is unforgivable.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
If that happens it will also massively boost the "JeMeRy CrOmByN sEcReTlY wAnTeD hArD bReXiT AlL aLoNg!!!????!!!!!111!!!" narrative already popular with #FBPEers.
Some people saying "if it gets voted down today Johnson will just have a Brexit election". And what do they think will happen if it passes?
Some people saying "if it gets voted down today Johnson will just have a Brexit election". And what do they think will happen if it passes?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
I would have been sympathetic to Labour MPs who voted for May's deal btw. The backstop created a floor that kept us in alignment with the EU in a lot of important areas, hence why the ERG refused to support it. If you want to respect the referendum and leave, it was a reasonable compromise. The risk of not voting May's deal through is surely now becoming all too clear.
We are teetering on a knife edge. I have everything crossed!
(And how is it the better outcome hinges on an amendment by Oliver Letwin?! We are truly down the rabbit hole).
We are teetering on a knife edge. I have everything crossed!
(And how is it the better outcome hinges on an amendment by Oliver Letwin?! We are truly down the rabbit hole).
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... rtal-truth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Decontextualused nonsense.The common " died at no age"combatted,as living as long and as best you could,so obviously thoughts of death are involved.
Decontextualused nonsense.The common " died at no age"combatted,as living as long and as best you could,so obviously thoughts of death are involved.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Is it fourth time lucky on the watching a Leeds home game front,the "Century "match,or will the hundred percent record of no wins continue?
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Watching the debate and Sammy Wilson just seemed to confirm the DUP will vote for the Letwin ammendment.
So that should scupper any vote today.
So that should scupper any vote today.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
JesusLaura Kuenssberg
@bbclaurak
Niche alert - if Letwin amendment passes, it is too late for the govt to pull the main vote on the deal, but it can be 'negatived' - ie if the govt doesn't provide tellers or no one shouts 'aye' on the second call (yes I know) then the vote could just come to a halt
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Clear as mud, meanwhile, whether Ken Clarke is actually going to vote for the deal or not.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tim Shipman
@ShippersUnbound
NEW: If Letwin passes government will step up No Deal preparations
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Even more so after seeing the ABs.refitman wrote:Morning all.
Rugby nerves
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
May's going to vote for it although 'no Prime Minister of the UK could'. She's not PM any more so that makes it ok?
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Sadly he said he would.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Clear as mud, meanwhile, whether Ken Clarke is actually going to vote for the deal or not.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
But...but...GNU leader to take us away from Brexit??!?!? Swinson promised!Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Sadly he said he would.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Clear as mud, meanwhile, whether Ken Clarke is actually going to vote for the deal or not.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
FTAOD I'm not suggesting anyone here feels a flicker of sympathy for May.Jonathan Lis
@jonlis1
Any time you entertain the slightest flicker of sympathy for May at how the sworn enemy she rehabilitated then destroyed her, repackaged her deal by selling out the Unionists and now gloats he can achieve what she never could, her own words and actions snuff it out completely
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Peston (yes I know) seems to think it was conditional.Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Sadly he said he would.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Clear as mud, meanwhile, whether Ken Clarke is actually going to vote for the deal or not.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Good afternoon, everyone.
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Thank fuck for that.
A stay of execution.
A stay of execution.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Agreed.Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Thank fuck for that.
A stay of execution.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Johnson still clearly hoping that he can dodge the Benn act in some way, but how?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Ok I freely admit I have no firm idea of what is going on now.
So Johnson's going to ignore the law then bring back the vote on Monday?
Is that right?
So Johnson's going to ignore the law then bring back the vote on Monday?
Is that right?
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
AIUI (and don't stake your life on that) apparently Letwin still applies even if Johnson does that successfully.
This deal will now be subjected to a level of scrutiny inside the Commons (and who knows, outside it if we are lucky) that it wouldn't have been had it got waved through today.
This deal will now be subjected to a level of scrutiny inside the Commons (and who knows, outside it if we are lucky) that it wouldn't have been had it got waved through today.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More time to assess the details are unlikely to improve its appeal, I suspect.
What a carry on.
Not sure why Boris pulled the meaningful vote. I think it could have passed with the Letwin amendment as security. Unless MPs won't trust it until Johnson has actually fulfilled it, in which case he only has his own lying, untrustworthy ass to blame.Rafael Behr
@rafaelbehr
I'm guessing Johnson will send a surly Benn act letter but wants a few hours of 'MPs spoil Brexit again' headlines first. Deadline is 11pm
More time to assess the details are unlikely to improve its appeal, I suspect.
What a carry on.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Agreed and Letwin reiterated that. I'm completely flummoxed as to what the government think they're playing it. A vote on Monday will be as meaningless as one held today and if, as the conservatives on Twitter are now saying, Johnson's not going to 'ask for a delay' he will unquestionably be breaking the law.AnatolyKasparov wrote:AIUI (and don't stake your life on that) apparently Letwin still applies even if Johnson does that successfully.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
You don't sayWillow904 wrote: More time to assess the details are unlikely to improve its appeal, I suspect
It was pretty transparent why Johnson wanted to bounce MPs into supporting it today, no questions asked.
(first Saturday sitting since the Falklands invasion FFS)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Had a trawl back through the Guardian live blog and they have Ken Clarke saying 'We should support this deal' which is what I remember. His condition seemed to be that the Letwin amendment was passed though it's so far back in the fog of time now I'm not 100% sure on that.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Peston (yes I know) seems to think it was conditional.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Given the general confusion and apparent shenanigans, can I just confirm that Johnson's plan was to get approval for his deal so he avoids the Benn act and doesn't need to ask for an extension, only for the deal to then not get ratified in time and we leave with no deal on 31st Oct by default? Because if he wants to leave with his deal the Letwin amendment isn't stopping him, he probably has the numbers and it can still be done, if it ever could be, by 31st October, so there is no reason for this petulance over asking for an extension.
Of course, in reality, it was probably never possible to complete a deal in time and as we have already observed the media playing along with the charade has left the public woefully uninformed on the true nature of what's happening right now. I think they might understand Johnson breaking the law, though. I think he's going to have to write that letter.
Of course, in reality, it was probably never possible to complete a deal in time and as we have already observed the media playing along with the charade has left the public woefully uninformed on the true nature of what's happening right now. I think they might understand Johnson breaking the law, though. I think he's going to have to write that letter.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Unless, of course, someone else writes the letter for him....
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
I don't think any extension will be a short one.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
(cJA edit)Willow904 wrote:---
Of course, in reality, it was probably never possible to complete a deal in time and as we have already observed the media playing along with the charade has left the public woefully uninformed on the true nature of what's happening right now. I think they might understand Johnson breaking the law, though. I think he's going to have to write that letter.
Yep.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
How is it possible government consider this a problem?Letwin amendment...
---
This withholds approval of the prime minister’s deal until the legislation to enact it – the EU withdrawal bill – is passed.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 8d1cb4eb89" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
He's made 'solemn binding undertakings' to the Scottish courts to comply with the law on this. The case is listed back in Court for monday in case he hasn't complied...
I still believe in a town called Hope
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Ok let's try and make some sense of this.
What do we actually know?
Johnson has to ask for an extension from the EU by 11 tonight or he'll be in breach of the law and the government will find themselves in court on Monday.
Any vote on his deal, regardless of whether he respects the Benn act or not, will continue to be subject to the Letwin amendment and will therefore be meaningless until the amendment's conditions are satisfied.
By law we cannot leave the EU on Oct 31'st unless the EU refuse to grant an extension. If Johnson does refuse to ask for an extension it can be requested by the Scottish court or the speaker.
What might we know?
Bercow might follow his own precedent and refuse to allow the government to bring the same motion for a vote on Monday.
The EU might offer us an extension. I suspect they would huff and puff before agreeing as grudgingly as possible.
What don't we know?
Pretty much everything else.
What do we actually know?
Johnson has to ask for an extension from the EU by 11 tonight or he'll be in breach of the law and the government will find themselves in court on Monday.
Any vote on his deal, regardless of whether he respects the Benn act or not, will continue to be subject to the Letwin amendment and will therefore be meaningless until the amendment's conditions are satisfied.
By law we cannot leave the EU on Oct 31'st unless the EU refuse to grant an extension. If Johnson does refuse to ask for an extension it can be requested by the Scottish court or the speaker.
What might we know?
Bercow might follow his own precedent and refuse to allow the government to bring the same motion for a vote on Monday.
The EU might offer us an extension. I suspect they would huff and puff before agreeing as grudgingly as possible.
What don't we know?
Pretty much everything else.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Now being speculated that could indeed be the case.Willow904 wrote:Unless, of course, someone else writes the letter for him....
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
However the Benn act specifies the letter has to be from and signed by Johnson.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Now being speculated that could indeed be the case.Willow904 wrote:Unless, of course, someone else writes the letter for him....
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Heh, DUP now indicating/threatening that they could support a second referendum.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Halle-bloody-loojah
"Hunter giving me a thumbs up rather than biting my legs"
"Hunter giving me a thumbs up rather than biting my legs"
- Sky'sGoneOut
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 8140
- Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 1:11 am
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Have a nice night folks now we can relax a bit.
Off to some goth burlesque.
And no I'm not performing.
Off to some goth burlesque.
And no I'm not performing.
- RogerOThornhill
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 11125
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Afternoon all.
Apparently there was a pro-Brexit march in Manchester.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's a video in the replies that shows that not many could bothered.
Apparently there was a pro-Brexit march in Manchester.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's a video in the replies that shows that not many could bothered.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/17/council- ... ito=social" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unquestionably unacceptable ,that is of course unless you ascribe of less worth.
https://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/composition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unquestionably unacceptable ,that is of course unless you ascribe of less worth.
https://www.eastrenfrewshire.gov.uk/composition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15692
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019
Johnson trying silly tricks with the letter signing, I see.
Oh, and PTO.
Oh, and PTO.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"