Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Well that was interesting, apparently you can't be a female goth burlesque dancer unless you're borderline obese but on the other hand you can't be a male goth burlesque dancer unless you're painfully skinny. Who would have thought the goth scene didn't encourage an entirely healthy image.

This guy however was brilliant.

[youtube]VD7eeONc68M[/youtube]

Also I see Johnson has been up to some wheeze...let's have a look.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

What an absolute twat. I mean what? He's sent an unsigned photocopy and some other shit saying he doesn't want an extension.

That was their genius plan? Something a 5 year old might do to get out of their homework?

So much for the vaunted genius of Dominic Cummings, today they have completely lost control of the brexit process, any and all legislation will now be open to amendments, and their bluff on some brilliant plan to avoid the law has proved to be a juvenile joke. And I hope he still ends up in court because this nonsense is illegal.

As someone who wants a second referendum I'm fucking cockahoop, it's closer than it's ever been before.
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refitman
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by refitman »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:What an absolute twat. I mean what? He's sent an unsigned photocopy and some other shit saying he doesn't want an extension.

That was their genius plan? Something a 5 year old might do to get out of their homework?


So much for the vaunted genius of Dominic Cummings, today they have completely lost control of the brexit process, any and all legislation will now be open to amendments, and their bluff on some brilliant plan to avoid the law has proved to be a juvenile joke. And I hope he still ends up in court because this nonsense is illegal.

As someone who wants a second referendum I'm fucking cockahoop, it's closer than it's ever been before.
Well. it's kinda worked. Peston and others are having a field day with this info, instead of ignoring it, as they should.

It's another dead cat.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Anybody about today?
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Good afternoon, everyone.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by Willow904 »

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-sends-thr ... n-11840136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit: UK sends three letters to the EU - what they say, and what they mean
This article talks as if ratifying Johnson's WA by the 31st October is entirely feasible. It also says nothing about the requirements for ratification on the EU side, which I thought could not begin until the deal has been agreed by the UK parliament.

Am I missing something here? Surely we are already well past the date of needing a technical extension. Didn't May ask for 3 months when hoping to pass and ratify her deal? How is it now possible to do this in less than 2 weeks? It's insane.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Gotta love the telegraph headlines.

John Bercow has 'strayed' from the rule of law over Brexit, deputy speaker suggests

Oh right. Which one?
In an article for The Sunday Telegraph, Dame Eleanor Laing warns that the way laws are made must "be seen to be fair" and the Speaker should be an "independent anchor ... unaffected by an allegiance to any political objective".

The Conservative MP, who is standing to replace Mr Bercow next month, suggests he has been guilty of "aggression and arrogance", warning: "The occupant of the Chair can only earn respect by showing respect."

The highly unusual intervention follows widespread...
Ah. File under "Hey government ministers - vote for me and I'll give you everything you want!"
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:https://news.sky.com/story/uk-sends-thr ... n-11840136
Brexit: UK sends three letters to the EU - what they say, and what they mean
This article talks as if ratifying Johnson's WA by the 31st October is entirely feasible. It also says nothing about the requirements for ratification on the EU side, which I thought could not begin until the deal has been agreed by the UK parliament.

Am I missing something here? Surely we are already well past the date of needing a technical extension. Didn't May ask for 3 months when hoping to pass and ratify her deal? How is it now possible to do this in less than 2 weeks? It's insane.
Any faint hope of "getting it done" by the 31st could well be extinguished if MPs "take control" of proceedings anyway, as they have done before.

And on your other point, apparently the EU have said there is no way they could complete the process of approving it until next month.
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gilsey
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by gilsey »

I'm not a great fan of Marina Hyde but this bit is spot on.
Everything has improved, hasn’t it, since journalists decided their job is predicting what might happen in the future as opposed to reporting on what they do currently know, or scrutinising what they can currently see.

Thus the 36 hours or so between Johnson announcing his deal in Brussels and the special sitting of parliament to vote on it feel like they have been mostly spent watching or reading hacks and pundits debating the complex question, “Will the agreement pass?” I don’t know, guys! I guess you could concentrate on what’s in it – or are you as committed to a no-spoilers Brexit as the government is?

Lavishing hours of airtime and miles of column inches on speculating precisely how close it all is feels a bit like being given advance notice of a shitstorm, and frittering your day away taking spread bets on the possible wind speed.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... let-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

One of the political "journalists" at the Beeb gave it away recently when they said the "drama and spectacle" of politics was what they wanted to cover.

(not least because, of course, that's all "the public" are interested in)
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gilsey
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by gilsey »

The campaign to stop Brexit has never found the right words
Another pro-Brexit message that has been allowed to spread largely unchecked is that it’s possible to “get Brexit done” quickly and conclusively. In February, the pollster Andrew Cooper wrote in the London Evening Standard that when focus groups were told that an initial Brexit deal “would actually trigger a new and almost certainly much longer and more complex new phase of talks”, there was “horrified silence”. That remainers have failed since 2016 to bring most voters to this realisation – that they have made Brexit seem a malign but largely abstract process – has been a crucial failure.
Surely another failure of the MSM, rather than a failure of Remainers, since it is true.

Despite the huge economic risks of Brexit, business organisations have not opposed it with much intensity. Currently, the website of the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) meekly hopes for “a good Brexit deal” that “delivers frictionless trade” – as if the latter was a realistic ambition rather than a fantasy, shared by many leavers, for a country intending to exit the world’s richest free trade zone.
Indeed.
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gilsey
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by gilsey »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:One of the political "journalists" at the Beeb gave it away recently when they said the "drama and spectacle" of politics was what they wanted to cover.
They create it rather than cover it, imo.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by Willow904 »

Perhaps that's because many business people value their Tory tax cuts and opportunities for investment in disaster and predatory capitalism more than they value their businesses.

The exceptions, such as Deborah Meaden, have been pretty vocal in their criticism and opposition.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:Perhaps that's because many business people value their Tory tax cuts and opportunities for investment in disaster and predatory capitalism more than they value their businesses.
To a significant extent its the classic "pah! leopards will never eat MY face!!" thing.
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gilsey
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by gilsey »

I heard Sophie in 't Veld on Sky news the other day, describing the UK political system as polarised, only she couldn't think of the right word and said bipolar instead. I thought that was quite appropriate at the moment.

'characterized by both manic and depressive episodes, or manic ones only'
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Willow904 wrote:https://news.sky.com/story/uk-sends-thr ... n-11840136
Brexit: UK sends three letters to the EU - what they say, and what they mean
This article talks as if ratifying Johnson's WA by the 31st October is entirely feasible. It also says nothing about the requirements for ratification on the EU side, which I thought could not begin until the deal has been agreed by the UK parliament.

Am I missing something here? Surely we are already well past the date of needing a technical extension. Didn't May ask for 3 months when hoping to pass and ratify her deal? How is it now possible to do this in less than 2 weeks? It's insane.
I've been trying to catch up looking at the news and posts here today. The lack of clarity and contradictions in the news at this time are particularly frightening.
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adam
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by adam »

Lewis Goodall, at Sky News, is saying that the government fucked up in another way yesterday - they didn't bring their motion, as amended my Letwin, to a division but they didn't drop it - it was passed by aclamation. So even if Bercow was minded to let them bring their motion back again, they can't bring a 'meaningful vote' on the deal back until they've actually passed the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, in all of its complexity and 'amendment-potential'. He suggests watching out particularly for the programme motion for the WA Bill, which might see the opposition take control of how it moves through parliament, and about amendments on a referendum and on a custom's union. And on top of that, we might well be about to see the first govenrment loss on a Queen's Speech vote for nearly 100 years.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

One fewer good journalist around. Sadly, Deborah Orr has died.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Well, that is sad. I frequently didn't agree with her but she was always interesting.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Exactly Anatoly.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 19th & Sunday 20th October 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
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