Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

[Tish]

Tristram Hunt kicks Cameron's big fat ass.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-is-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rebeccariots2]

Tristram Hunt kicks Cameron's big fat ass.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-is-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That reads and sounds like it has been a long time coming. Belly full of fire. Good. Maybe he has what is needed after all (I've had my doubts). Maybe he will be able to slug it out with the nasties.

[rebeccariots2]

I see Uncle Vince has been out on his Sunday drive again:

Vince Cable slams excessive Conservative cuts on working poor
Lib Dem business secretary says Tories are planning punitive cuts that go 'far beyond' what is needed to cut deficit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rking-poor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lets face it ... I don't think Cable could slam a door with conviction.

I can see it now ... it would need take after take and the director finally flips and has to shout - 'Vince, FFS, slam that door like you mean it, really mean it.

[Tish]

Tristram Hunt kicks Cameron's big fat ass.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-is-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That reads and sounds like it has been a long time coming. Belly full of fire. Good. Maybe he has what is needed after all (I've had my doubts). Maybe he will be able to slug it out with the nasties.

That's exactly what I thought. I've been unimpressed with Hunt so far, far too polite in the face of Gove's horror show, and seemingly only offering a bit of low level tinkering to the current set up. But that article made me think that maybe there is a bit more than just a pretty face to him after all.

[AngryAsWell]

I see Uncle Vince has been out on his Sunday drive again:

Vince Cable slams excessive Conservative cuts on working poor
Lib Dem business secretary says Tories are planning punitive cuts that go 'far beyond' what is needed to cut deficit

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rking-poor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lets face it ... I don't think Cable could slam a door with conviction.

I can see it now ... it would need take after take and the director finally flips and has to shout - 'Vince, FFS, slam that door like you mean it, really mean it.

Vince - sorry, explain to me again... how does that look I never really mean anything you see, so I'm not quiet sure I can do this.

[Temulkar]

Mehdi Hasan retweeted
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour · 4m4 minutes ago
“@charleshymas: #sundaytimes poll has Tories on 36%, Labour 34%, Ukip 13% and LibDems 7%. poll in fortnight will be best guide to conf.

What on earth is happening with the polls? truly can't be going up and down like this surely ?

We need to know when the polling was done and also what the weighting is. I'm guessing just a conference bounce and will go back to "normal" on Tuesday.

This is true before the weighting was added on YouGov's recent poll Labour were well ahead. Honestly I have been saying for months the polls are knackered because of the rise of UKIP and the collapse of the Lib Dems. I really think (despite Vince's fluff piece) that the collapse of the Liberals is going to be absolutely stunning, but UKIP are going to get seats. There are going to be some very odd results next election. Fom the Greens Bristol and Norwich are looking like they could be happy hunting grounds and I think CL will hold on in Brighton.

It is going to be a big Labour majority, the liberals are going to be on life support, The tories will have their civil war and UKIP are going to end up with more seats because of it, whilst their will only be a rump conservative party left. UKIP will take the right tories and Labour fight for the middle and Greens will be on the left. The Liberals will be irrelevant.

[AngryAsWell]

Tristram Hunt kicks Cameron's big fat ass.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-is-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That reads and sounds like it has been a long time coming. Belly full of fire. Good. Maybe he has what is needed after all (I've had my doubts). Maybe he will be able to slug it out with the nasties.

That's exactly what I thought. I've been unimpressed with Hunt so far, far too polite in the face of Gove's horror show, and seemingly only offering a bit of low level tinkering to the current set up. But that article made me think that maybe there is a bit more than just a pretty face to him after all.

So, let’s tell it as it is. Cameron has moved on little since his time as a low-rent PR man. He surrounds himself, according to the former Tory aide Dominic Cummings, with “third-rate suck-up-kick-down” sycophants. He is unloved by his MPs and distrusted by the British public. He is the frat-boy prime minister who spills confidences about the Queen and covers up policy failure with personal attacks. The Daily Telegraph suggests he needs to be careful not to be remembered “as untrustworthy and a bit of a second-rater”. The good news is that we only have another eight months of him.

Nice to see some passion and anger

[AnatolyKasparov]

Rochester/Strood byelection poll (Survation)

UKIP 40 Con 31 Lab 25 LibDem 2 (sic)

Looks like the anecdotal claims the orchestrated Tory rubbishing of Reckless hasn't gone down too well on the doorstep, might have some substance to them?

[rebeccariots2]

Tory wreckers out to destroy their own human rights
The Conservatives’ threat to scrap the Human Rights Act emphasises how extreme the party has become
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... man-rights

Another writer on fire here. The final para is an absolute killer ...

The case of the Human Rights Act belies the stories Conservatives tell themselves. They call themselves individualists but want more power for the state. They call themselves unionists but threaten the union. They call themselves democrats but land more blows on the enfeebled liberal world. They boast of their common sense and call themselves pragmatists but destroy with reckless insouciance. They are a danger to themselves and everyone who votes for them.

[HindleA]

IDS planning to make DLA/PIP taxable/increase for lower incomed.

[AngryAsWell]

IDS planning to make DLA/PIP taxable/increase for lower incomed.

Sorry don't understand.
He's increasing payments? But then going to tax them?
Will that affect many?

[AngryAsWell]

Survation ‏@Survation · 2m2 minutes ago
UKIP voters told us the reason for voting Reckless,was liking UKIP and their policies (70%) vs protest (18%) or liking Reckless (12%).

[rebeccariots2]

Rochester/Strood byelection poll (Survation)

UKIP 40 Con 31 Lab 25 LibDem 2 (sic)

Looks like the anecdotal claims the orchestrated Tory rubbishing of Reckless hasn't gone down too well on the doorstep, might have some substance to them?

That certainly seemed to be the case in the South East news segment posted up on YouTube ... the people interviewed on the street were not impressed with the Tories' treatment of Reckless ... they thought he had acted according to his beliefs and shouldn't be slated for that. The Tories just seem to be stuck in the extreme nasty mode ... don't know how to change down out of it anymore.

[rebeccariots2]

Tim Montgomerie ‏@TimMontgomerie 27m27 minutes ago
9% lead for @MarkReckless /UKIP in looming by-election. Tories will take comfort from that and think it winnable " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Really?

[tinyclanger2]

Must remember not to move to Rochester by mistake.

[Temulkar]

If Reckless wins then bang goes the tory plan of putting a stop to the UKIP insurgency. Reckless winning will encourage others.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Tristram Hunt kicks Cameron's big fat ass.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... t-is-abuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That reads and sounds like it has been a long time coming. Belly full of fire. Good. Maybe he has what is needed after all (I've had my doubts). Maybe he will be able to slug it out with the nasties.

That's exactly what I thought. I've been unimpressed with Hunt so far, far too polite in the face of Gove's horror show, and seemingly only offering a bit of low level tinkering to the current set up. But that article made me think that maybe there is a bit more than just a pretty face to him after all.

A lot more. Hunt (Dr Tristram Hunt FRHistS) is ferociously intelligent but, for that reason, tends to come across sometimes as a little detached; but I've been a fan for a while, and I'm really pleased to see him finally take the gloves off at last. With recent contributions from Burnham and Khan things are beginning to look up.

I suspect part of the reason he may not have been so effective at Education over the past few months is that his attention may have been elsewhere; his speciality is urban history and the regionalisation policy has his fingermarks all over it - it read like the final chapter of his book Building Jerusalem where he talked, with passion, about how the Victorian cities had once been the powerhouse of this nation and could be again. With this kind of fire we can really begin to take the fight to the Tory scum ...... not before time!

[HindleA]

IDS planning to make DLA/PIP taxable/increase for lower incomed.

Sorry don't understand.
He's increasing payments? But then going to tax them?
Will that affect many?

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

[letsskiptotheleft]

If Reckless wins then bang goes the tory plan of putting a stop to the UKIP insurgency. Reckless winning will encourage others.

A Reckless win will certainly spook the Conservatives. Oh. Dear. How. Awful. Especially when the media have force fed the idea that all the stops were pulled out in Rochester, to stop the tide of the Kippers, I loathe Farage and his merry band of useful idiots but if he fucks with Cameron and Crosby's plan so be it.

[diGriz]

Where did everyone go?

I'm still here, lurking while at work, although as the pub is nearly deserted on a Saturday night, I'm wondering where did the customers go. Recovery my arse.

You can judge the economy by listening to cars starting up. Getting the car fixed is a job that gets put off if possible when times are tight, there's a lot more around my way taking a while to get going. Have a listen out.

[ErnstRemarx]

I thought it was a good idea. I think though it would demand more expertise or time than some of us [ me included ] feel they have. We'd have to leave it to those who could make a fist of it but I can't see why you don't give it a go.

Expertise, schmeckpertise - just how much effort do you think that hacks put into their efforts? Consider Wintour and Watt. Once you've stopped vomiting, think about how shallow their efforts are and how little work they actually put in. Now compare and contrast blogs like Zelostreet and TheGreenBench and OneButtonMonkey. Who's the more talented? Who deserves wider circulation?

Are you both thinking of something like
RIPPED-OFF BRITONS ?
http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/20 ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd do some research, but writing is not my best point.

Yeah that's cool. We could do that I'm sure and still have the lovely fora that we currently have. I'm thinking over the technicalities of this one. We've only just moved house. Let's do some in depth planning if we're serious.

[ErnstRemarx]

The Guardian is dead. Time to consider the alternatives. My suggestion the other day that we try to start up a progressively-inclined news source here went down like a cup of cold sick, but what are the possibilities open to us who are fed up with rightwing hegemony in the serious press?

No Robert, I think it's a sound idea. It's something we should (and in part already) do.

I would implore FTNers to get the news in and provide the links. If it means changing FTN around so we have a 'front page' that's actually links/articles/pictures form elsewhere, then so be it, but I'd love to see original contributions from FTNers, interested parties and those that they know.

Thanks. I wonder if there's also a means of forming some sort of co-operative with those blogs that were mentioned further down. While I'd love to throw my all into literally starting a new professional news service, I'm too disorganised and have too much on. It occurs to me that we can fight better by organising and collaborating - and at the same time, there are a lot of people who the Guardian is alienating who will be crying out for decent news and comment untainted by sycophancy and bitterness.

Well, if you're still registered with CiF - tell these people where we are and tell them to sodding well join! There's about 70 of us here, which is a pretty good start, but the more you get who'll join in, then the greater likelihood of posts and links, and then a front page of sorts.

I thoroughly approve of linking to and co-operating with other blogs. Should we have a 'fabbo links' section on FTN? My instinct is yes. My browser's about full, but I keep on seeing great sites to bookmark. A section here would draw people in as a reliable resource.

Views?

[Hobiejoe]

Where did everyone go?

I'm still here, lurking while at work, although as the pub is nearly deserted on a Saturday night, I'm wondering where did the customers go. Recovery my arse.

Our local dead as a dormouse as well, no point going in, never anyone there

I don't know about your neighbourhood, but we need a lot of visitors to help our trade, and when we're quiet we see sooo many people walk on. If we've got a few in, it reassures the grockles that we might be alright, despite not being on the waterfront, and so we get more business.

And don't even start me on the "gosh, what a wonderful pub! Wish we'd found you earlier, went to the R**** C*****, and T** C*****, and you're much better! Shame we're going home tomorrow.

So be the person who is there, and help a landlord!

[51A]

I'm still here, lurking while at work, although as the pub is nearly deserted on a Saturday night, I'm wondering where did the customers go. Recovery my arse.

Our local dead as a dormouse as well, no point going in, never anyone there

I don't know about your neighbourhood, but we need a lot of visitors to help our trade, and when we're quiet we see sooo many people walk on. If we've got a few in, it reassures the grockles that we might be alright, despite not being on the waterfront, and so we get more business.

And don't even start me on the "gosh, what a wonderful pub! Wish we'd found you earlier, went to the R**** C*****, and T** C*****, and you're much better! Shame we're going home tomorrow.

So be the person who is there, and help a landlord!

Might be good if the landlord and staff did not refer to passing trade/holidaymakers as "grockles". It's an insulting word and shows an "us" (local) and them (cashcow who knows no better) mentality. I've run a pub and I eat and drink in them. I'd leave one that referred to me as a "grockle". Make everyone welcome. Sorry if that sounded harsh but "grockle" sounds harsh to me.

[51A]

IDS planning to make DLA/PIP taxable/increase for lower incomed.

Sorry don't understand.
He's increasing payments? But then going to tax them?
Will that affect many?

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

Surely that can only work in households where there is another income, such as private pension and tories are known never to hit pensioners? I'm not doubting you, just wondering how it fits, there is no more DLA, it will all be PIP but existing DLA might stand for quite a long time as the roll out will take a long time.

[LadyCentauria]

Rochester/Strood byelection poll (Survation)

UKIP 40 Con 31 Lab 25 LibDem 2 (sic)

Looks like the anecdotal claims the orchestrated Tory rubbishing of Reckless hasn't gone down too well on the doorstep, might have some substance to them?

My father lives in the constituency and will be horrified by that poll

[LadyCentauria]

New report on Personal Independence Payment scheme from Citizens Advice Scotland published October 3rd.

... evidence recorded by CAB advisers across Scotland shows that the new system is dogged by huge delays, which can leave the claimants in poverty for months, and many claimants are reporting that the assessment process is problematic and prone to mistakes. While some claimants are satisfied with the system, it is notable that many of the problems we have identified follow the pattern of previous welfare reforms like the Employment Support Allowance (ESA), suggesting that many lessons have not been learned.

The problems with PIP are outlined in today’s CAS report (attached). The main points include:

The assessment process is problematic for many clients, with some having to travel long distances to their test centre. 24% of CAB advisers report that the assessment decisions are inaccurate and need to be appealed.

Clients are experiencing huge delays between their claim and receiving payment. The average is 6 months, but some have reported delays of 13, 14 or 15 months.

Over half of our advisers say these delays cause the claimant severe hardship, with many of them needing to use foodbanks. 78% say this causes their condition to deteriorate, and 95% say this impacts negatively on their ability to claim other benefits.

The full report, Voices from the Frontline: Personal Independence Payment can be downloaded from the following link:

http://www.cas.org.uk/publications/voic ... ce-payment

[HindleA]

Sorry don't understand.
He's increasing payments? But then going to tax them?
Will that affect many?

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

Surely that can only work in households where there is another income, such as private pension and tories are known never to hit pensioners? I'm not doubting you, just wondering how it fits, there is no more DLA, it will all be PIP but existing DLA might stand for quite a long time as the roll out will take a long time.

It's from the Sunday Times behind paywall so only getting the gist,refers to DLA/PIP and making it taxable,with promises to increase payments to poorer receivers;as to how the arse envisages this to work,I don't know.Part of the complexification of the system he is particularly astute at.

[HindleA]

Thanks for link LC.Makes the visage of IDS on the Sunday papers and sycophantic coverage all the more sickening.

[Hobiejoe]

Our local dead as a dormouse as well, no point going in, never anyone there

I don't know about your neighbourhood, but we need a lot of visitors to help our trade, and when we're quiet we see sooo many people walk on. If we've got a few in, it reassures the grockles that we might be alright, despite not being on the waterfront, and so we get more business.

And don't even start me on the "gosh, what a wonderful pub! Wish we'd found you earlier, went to the R**** C*****, and T** C*****, and you're much better! Shame we're going home tomorrow.

So be the person who is there, and help a landlord!

Might be good if the landlord and staff did not refer to passing trade/holidaymakers as "grockles". It's an insulting word and shows an "us" (local) and them (cashcow who knows no better) mentality. I've run a pub and I eat and drink in them. I'd leave one that referred to me as a "grockle". Make everyone welcome. Sorry if that sounded harsh but "grockle" sounds harsh to me.

Which is fine, if I use grockle in a perjorative way. Which I don't. It's merely a local variation of "tourist or visitor", and so we continue to use an old word from way back, a local dialect word, and one I use here.

Now, if you, as a visitor, were to walk into my pub I'm pretty damn sure neither I nor my staff are going to say "Good evening grockle, what can I get you?" Because that's just rude and aggressive, as you suggest. And that's why we don't do so. But when I post something on a friendly forum like this I use idioms or local words, the vernacular, as I would in everyday conversation with "locals", and with actual "grockles" once we've got to know each other a little, some of those grockles are well up for a little ironic banter.

Hmmmph. You seem to think I'm some kind of tourist-hater. I'm not.

[LadyCentauria]

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

Surely that can only work in households where there is another income, such as private pension and tories are known never to hit pensioners? I'm not doubting you, just wondering how it fits, there is no more DLA, it will all be PIP but existing DLA might stand for quite a long time as the roll out will take a long time.

It's from the Sunday Times behind paywall so only getting the gist,refers to DLA/PIP and making it taxable,with promises to increase payments to poorer receivers;as to how the arse envisages this to work,I don't know.Part of the complexification of the system he is particularly astute at.

Oh no! Looks like I'll need to try to find, or borrow, a copy of the ST tomorrow – don't think I can bring myself to buy it. Doubt there'll be much detail in it, though – this is GIDS, after all...

You're very welcome to the link. I heard about the report on Radio 4 either on Friday, or on Saturday morning but forgot to post it until earlier. Brain is working in delay, as usual...

[tinyclanger2]

Expertise, schmeckpertise - just how much effort do you think that hacks put into their efforts? Consider Wintour and Watt. Once you've stopped vomiting, think about how shallow their efforts are and how little work they actually put in. Now compare and contrast blogs like Zelostreet and TheGreenBench and OneButtonMonkey. Who's the more talented? Who deserves wider circulation?

Are you both thinking of something like
RIPPED-OFF BRITONS ?
http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/20 ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd do some research, but writing is not my best point.

Yeah that's cool. We could do that I'm sure and still have the lovely fora that we currently have. I'm thinking over the technicalities of this one. We've only just moved house. Let's do some in depth planning if we're serious.

Like I say, I"m in but pushed for time til the end of the year.

[tinyclanger2]

No Robert, I think it's a sound idea. It's something we should (and in part already) do.

I would implore FTNers to get the news in and provide the links. If it means changing FTN around so we have a 'front page' that's actually links/articles/pictures form elsewhere, then so be it, but I'd love to see original contributions from FTNers, interested parties and those that they know.

Thanks. I wonder if there's also a means of forming some sort of co-operative with those blogs that were mentioned further down. While I'd love to throw my all into literally starting a new professional news service, I'm too disorganised and have too much on. It occurs to me that we can fight better by organising and collaborating - and at the same time, there are a lot of people who the Guardian is alienating who will be crying out for decent news and comment untainted by sycophancy and bitterness.

Well, if you're still registered with CiF - tell these people where we are and tell them to sodding well join! There's about 70 of us here, which is a pretty good start, but the more you get who'll join in, then the greater likelihood of posts and links, and then a front page of sorts.

I thoroughly approve of linking to and co-operating with other blogs. Should we have a 'fabbo links' section on FTN? My instinct is yes. My browser's about full, but I keep on seeing great sites to bookmark. A section here would draw people in as a reliable resource.

Views?

Yes

[refitman]

Looks like there is more dissension in the ranks:

Most Tory MPs back NHS pay rise, new poll shows
More than half of Conservative MPs polled support across-the-board rise rejected by Jeremy Hunt

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... s-pay-rise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A new poll of 100 MPs of all parties found that 71% think the NHS's 1.3 million workers in England should receive the small across-the-board rise that the independent NHS pay review body recommended. They include 58% of the 40 Tories who participated anonymously in the survey, conducted by Dods Polling. Their stance puts them at odds with Hunt, who claims that the NHS cannot afford to give all its staff 1% and that doing so would risk job losses.

[tinyclanger2]

http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... 031014.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 3rd Oct - Con 36%, Lab 34%, LD 7%, UKIP 13%; APP -18

Fieldwork was 2-3 Oct.

52 % disapprove of gvt to date and 53% think Cameron is doing badly (22% v badly compared to 5% very well)

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; points out the Populus poll on Friday did not show a trend to Tories.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10- ... eferendum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there really an appetite for another in-out referendum within three years? One can't help but wonder about the motives of the SNP if they don't rule this out. Having failed to secure the yes vote that would provide their socialist Utopia, they are now working to discredit Labour, thus promoting the likelihood of a Tory/UKIP coalition, while apparently agitating (if not publicly) for another in-out vote. If they hate the English so much, that they would be prepared to foist such misery on so many, the time may be ripe for them to relocate to, say, France.

[tinyclanger2]

http://www.babbel.com/magazine/untransl ... atable1-tb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8 words we don't have in English. My favourites in the following self-defined categories are:

aesthetically - sobremesa [chat around table after dinner]
awareness - verschlimmbessern [make something worse while trying to make it better]
skill set - desenrascanco (with cedilla) [quickly improvise a solution]

[tinyclanger2]

During a recent sobremesa with Lady R-M, her ladyship vehemently denied that Cameron had verschlimmbesserned the Tory meltdown with his cynical desenrascanco that boiled down to nothing more than Eton votes for English Laws.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I don't know about your neighbourhood, but we need a lot of visitors to help our trade, and when we're quiet we see sooo many people walk on. If we've got a few in, it reassures the grockles that we might be alright, despite not being on the waterfront, and so we get more business.

And don't even start me on the "gosh, what a wonderful pub! Wish we'd found you earlier, went to the R**** C*****, and T** C*****, and you're much better! Shame we're going home tomorrow.

So be the person who is there, and help a landlord!

Might be good if the landlord and staff did not refer to passing trade/holidaymakers as "grockles". It's an insulting word and shows an "us" (local) and them (cashcow who knows no better) mentality. I've run a pub and I eat and drink in them. I'd leave one that referred to me as a "grockle". Make everyone welcome. Sorry if that sounded harsh but "grockle" sounds harsh to me.

Which is fine, if I use grockle in a perjorative way. Which I don't. It's merely a local variation of "tourist or visitor", and so we continue to use an old word from way back, a local dialect word, and one I use here.

Now, if you, as a visitor, were to walk into my pub I'm pretty damn sure neither I nor my staff are going to say "Good evening grockle, what can I get you?" Because that's just rude and aggressive, as you suggest. And that's why we don't do so. But when I post something on a friendly forum like this I use idioms or local words, the vernacular, as I would in everyday conversation with "locals", and with actual "grockles" once we've got to know each other a little, some of those grockles are well up for a little ironic banter.

Hmmmph. You seem to think I'm some kind of tourist-hater. I'm not.

Hi HJ

Just wondering how much you work at your Tripadvisor presence.

[ephemerid]

Sorry don't understand.
He's increasing payments? But then going to tax them?
Will that affect many?

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

Surely that can only work in households where there is another income, such as private pension and tories are known never to hit pensioners? I'm not doubting you, just wondering how it fits, there is no more DLA, it will all be PIP but existing DLA might stand for quite a long time as the roll out will take a long time.

All other social security payments are counted towards taxable income.

People on JSA, ESA, Income Support, etc. get a DWP version of a P60 every year.

People who have other incomes, like occupational pensions, say, are already taxed on income while claiming benefits if their total income goes over the income tax threshold.

Someone claiming Support Group ESA gets £108.15PW - £5,623.80 PA.
If they also claim top rates of DLA/PIP, they also get £81.30 Care and £56.75 Mobility, £138.05PW - £7,178.60 PA.
That's a total of £12,802.40.
The current threshold for Income Tax is £10,000 - so £2,802.40 will be taxable.
DLA is usually uprated with inflation, so next year the rise should be about £1,500PA; total income will be about £14,300.
The tax threshold rises to £10,140 in April, so the new amount taxable will be more than £4,000.

DLA is currently tax-free. If DLA is counted towards taxable income, the example above would lose £800 a year.

People who claim DLA and work will lose out too; how much will depend on their income and their tax credits status.

[letsskiptotheleft]

260,000 families in 50 marginal seats will lose out in WTC, announced by Osborne last week, if Labour don't tap into those families, and I don't see why they won't they need their arses kicked.

http://www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/the ... ion-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[55DegreesNorth]

Morning, folks,
Here's a nice, clearly written article explaining how Osborne is a liar.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 74889.html

[StephenDolan]

Rawnsley nails it.

The Tories’ veneer of bravado barely hides their desperation

http://gu.com/p/426et" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ephemerid]

Making DLA taxable,but promises to increase payments to poorer claimants.He's an arse.


Ie it counts as taxable income.

Surely that can only work in households where there is another income, such as private pension and tories are known never to hit pensioners? I'm not doubting you, just wondering how it fits, there is no more DLA, it will all be PIP but existing DLA might stand for quite a long time as the roll out will take a long time.

All other social security payments are counted towards taxable income.

People on JSA, ESA, Income Support, etc. get a DWP version of a P60 every year.

People who have other incomes, like occupational pensions, say, are already taxed on income while claiming benefits if their total income goes over the income tax threshold.

Someone claiming Support Group ESA gets £108.15PW - £5,623.80 PA.
If they also claim top rates of DLA/PIP, they also get £81.30 Care and £56.75 Mobility, £138.05PW - £7,178.60 PA.
That's a total of £12,802.40.
The current threshold for Income Tax is £10,000 - so £2,802.40 will be taxable.
DLA is usually uprated with inflation, so next year the rise should be about £1,500PA; total income will be about £14,300.
The tax threshold rises to £10,140 in April, so the new amount taxable will be more than £4,000.

DLA is currently tax-free. If DLA is counted towards taxable income, the example above would lose £800 a year.

People who claim DLA and work will lose out too; how much will depend on their income and their tax credits status.

Pondering on this a bit more......

This could get complicated, but bear with me.

The example I gave above was for a person claiming the highest possible rates of both ESA and DLA/PIP.
This person may also be in receipt of passported support - not cash, necessarily, but LA care packages, etc.
That passported support is contingent on certain criteria, eg. level of DLA in payment, and income, as it is all means-tested.
If DLA is counted towards taxable income, and the example loses £800PA as a result, LAs will have to take that into account.
ILF funding is now abolished, so LAs also have to provide replacement funding from that from a much lower unringfenced fund; they also have to provide DHPs from dwindling and eventually withdrawn central government funding.
What this means is that LAs will have to either cut care packages and DHPs to accommodate the cuts in ILF cash, DHP funding, and the loss of DLA/PIP to tax - or they will do none of those things and the claimant will have to find the shortfall from their benefits.

Also - there is a significant cohort of people with disabilities who have other income. Ex-HM Forces come to mind; older people who have taken early retirement due to ill-health and have taken a reduced pension early on sickness grounds; people who work and earn more than the £10,000PA income tax threshold; all of those will move into a different tax band purely because they claim DLA or PIP.
It's possible that someone on a salary of about £35K would move into the current 50p income tax band.

And - if the household has one member who claims Universal Credit (eg. someone working and claiming any type of tax credit, or someone on an out-of-work benefit) their claim will be affected by the income of the disabled person, and if DLA/PIP is taxed the UC claim will have to be recalculated as well, and the taxable income of the UC claimant will need to be reassessed too.

If IDS does this, it is effectively yet another charge on those who should not be having cash withdrawn from what is supposed to be a payment designed for one thing only - to cover the extra costs of living with a disability.

What seems to be happening, all over the benefits landscape, is that if a person qualifies for a benefit (which is difficult enough and becoming more so as time goes on) they can expect to have a proportion of it removed by one means or another.
For JSA and ESA basic/WRAG, and Income Support, it's time-limiting, the new 7-day wait, and sanctions.
For housing/council tax help, it's bedroom tax, restricted Local Housing Allowance, and new council tax charges for all.
For tax credits, it's increasing hours worked for qualification to the point that people go over the threshold and have to pay tax.

Tory social security policy is obviously to avoid paying benefits wherever possible - but now they will punish those who make a successful claim by removing significant chunks of the benefit award by all manner of trickery so that people who do not claim benefits don't notice how their fellow citizens are being fleeced. If they plan to add DLA/PIP to taxable income, they'll claw back serious amounts of cash - DLA currently costs about £13BN PA; PIP will reduce that to about £10BN eventually and if it's taxed even only by small amounts that's a significant wad for the Treasury and a lot of disabled people much worse off.

The get more despicable by the day.

[AnatolyKasparov]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10- ... eferendum/

Is there really an appetite for another in-out referendum within three years? One can't help but wonder about the motives of the SNP if they don't rule this out. Having failed to secure the yes vote that would provide their socialist Utopia, they are now working to discredit Labour, thus promoting the likelihood of a Tory/UKIP coalition, while apparently agitating (if not publicly) for another in-out vote. If they hate the English so much, that they would be prepared to foist such misery on so many, the time may be ripe for them to relocate to, say, France.

A lot of their grassroots genuinely believe last month's vote was rigged, or was illegitimate because "only old people voted 'no'" (false of course, but what do facts matter?) The leadership has to appease them - plus if they publicly admitted there wouldn't be another referendum for a generation, they might actually have to concentrate on governing at Holyrood.

Anything but that!

[rebeccariots2]

Rawnsley nails it.

The Tories’ veneer of bravado barely hides their desperation

http://gu.com/p/426et" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A surprise bit of sensible from Rawnsley.
This should terrify:

Mr Cameron’s conference response was to renew the ringfencing of the health budget and make it exempt from the £25bn of additional cuts that his chancellor is saying will be necessary in the first two years of the next parliament.

Combined with pledges not to touch the big slice of the welfare budget that goes in pensioner benefits, and the likelihood that the Tories will promise to protect education and defence as well, this represents a defeat for those ministers who know that it means the next round of cuts will fall again in the areas that took the brunt of them the first time around. It foreshadows an excruciating squeeze in non-protected budgets such as the police, transport, science and local government.

and this should be picked up and quoted far and wide:

To my mind, the biggest tell of Tory desperation about their election prospects was the decision to commit a Conservative government to reductions in income tax at some unspecified time in the future. Not jam tomorrow. Not even jam next year. But jam on the never-never.

[rebeccariots2]

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19s19 seconds ago
Lib Dems vote for overhaul of key Coalition welfare changes; inc review of Universal Credit; shake up of Work Prog and Hardship Fund #ldconf

Meaningless crap. Correction. Meaningless hypocritical crap.

[refitman]

LabourLordsUK retweeted
Graeme Demianyk ‏@GraemeDemianyk 21m21 minutes ago

Delegates trickle in to #ldconf

Also, hearing on 5Live that they've just opened the bar.

[rebeccariots2]

There is still the chemistry to forge a second Con-Lib Coalition
David Cameron’s £12,500 tax-free pledge was a pitiless annexation of Lib Dem terrain. Or was it the first line of a new Lib-Con deal?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ition.html

... But the [Lib Dem] veterans of this Coalition and their supporters believe that their movement is now becoming a serious party of government, “protecting Britain from one-party rule”, as Clegg put it in his York speech.
The corollary on the Tory side is quiet preparation for a second alliance. In Downing Street, they call it “Coalition 2.0” and make plans as discreetly as possible. It is scarcely the favoured option – but it is definitely an option. It is the deal that dares not speak its name...

[HindleA]

Eph.

There are so many philosophical,social and economic objections to making DLA/PIP taxable(or indeed means tested) ;some of which you touch on.The mere fact that IDS ,however sketchy,is attempting to render it non Universal equally applied (by whatever means)goes against the whole concept on which DLA was introduced.Simplification my arse.Complexification I call it.