Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by **refitman** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 5:51 am

Morning all. Up early to watch the F1, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 6:03 am

Liberal Democrats pledge to spend extra £1bn a year on NHS
In attempt to outflank Tories, Lib Dem Treasury chief secretary speaks of need to fund ‘the jewel in our country’s crown’

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... pledge-nhs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Try not voting to privatise it!

Also, Ed Davey is living in a fantasy land:

As the Lib Dem cabinet minister Ed Davey predicted in a Guardian interview that the “Cleggmania” of 2010 will be replaced by “Clegg respect” next year,

The last thing Clegg is going to get from anyone, is respect.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 7:48 am

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danho ... long-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DFH salivates over David Cameron's "barnstorming conference speech".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 8:26 am

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... 1412406391" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gord trying to hold the orange one to account

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 8:51 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danho ... long-time/

DFH salivates over David Cameron's "barnstorming conference speech".

Basically DFH says Cameron will win because the polls are wrong.

The lib dem vote will rise and the UKIP vote will collapse.

Meanwhile Tory policies continue to bind together Milibands anti Tory coalition. Grayling having turned the election into a referendum question on whether you wish to retain your human rights. The right might not care but the socialist left mostly do.

I would love DFH to stop righting ( a typo I am keeping see note below) drivel and ask himself just how damaging Grayling and May's move is for image and positioning. I rather think it is utterly toxic.

Note: FTN dictionary definition.

Righting - a form of writing that seeks to pervert and distort reality to satisfy the authors own disconnected right wing world view. Key exponents of this craft being Dan Hodges and John Rentoul. Progressive withdrawal from reality and a resulting loss of credibility are secondary symptoms suffered by those who perform this act.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 8:59 am

I like the idea of the FTN dictionary (including Proper Nouns) and would like immediate entries to include:

Owl waxing
Owl stretching
DFH
Little Nicky Robinson
Fromage

and

carcoat

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:08 am

Morning all.

You seem to have acquired a very cuddly avatar overnight, tinyclanger. Nice one.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:15 am

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 3m3 minutes ago
The acceptable face of Tory rebellion - my piece on Michael Gove's bumpy first 10 weeks as Chief Whip http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/poli ... 226762.ece …

I think I'm probably glad that's behind a paywall so I can't read it ...

If anyone can access it - please can you give us a sanitised summary. Ta very muchly. (I'm wondering how on earth they manage to get Gove coming out of two defections not smelling of deep shit.)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:17 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
You seem to have acquired a very cuddly avatar overnight, tinyclanger. Nice one.

Ta!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:24 am

Rejoice! Tis the Lib Dem's annual happy clap - with a bit of renting of shirts on the fringe. (Is their conference big enough now to have a fringe?)

We have a few days of these articles to look forward to ... get sharpening your claws.

Jeremy Browne: The 360-degree liberal
The Lib Dem MP and former minister on the radical new direction his party needs to take to recover.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ee-liberal

...These may be grim days for the Lib Dems but, he declares, they are glorious for liberals.

“We live in the liberal age now,” he tells me. “There’s never been a time when liberalism was more dominant in British politics and more equipped to answer the big challenges that we face as a country.” As a result of the rise of a more individualistic and less deferential society, he says, “We have a bigger marketplace in which to sell our product than we have had since the advent of universal suffrage.” The precondition for a Lib Dem recovery, he argues, is that his party understands and seizes this moment...

Ummm, yum. Doesn't he make that 'product' sound appealing? (I thought 'product' was something hairdressers try to flog you after they've charged you the earth for a haircut with a scorching blowdry and condition that you didn't really want).

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:32 am

From yesterday....

"AngryAsWell
I'm convinced it will be a Labour landslide

51A
I wish I was convinced, I live in hope of the electorate saying "no" to more austerity whilst not ever punishing the real culprits but I have to say, I have never seen Labour so unelectable. No-one likes Ed. Unpalateable but true, sadly."

I had a conversation with a very close Glaswegian Socialist (at least, he used to be (a Socialist, that is)) friend last week along these very lines..

"Friend: Ach, Milibands UNELECTABLE

Me: Why

F: 'cos he is!!

Me: Electoral Calculus have a predicted Labour majority of over 40 seats

F: Brilliant. Focus on what you want. Surely not one guy and a great society(??) Why are you so hung up on Miliband?

Me: Umm - you brought him up and categorically stated that he's unelectable…I have a different opinion and it took some effort to get you to shut up long enough to hear it!

F: I'll bet £50 he doesn't get elected - wake up!! - If Boris were in charge of Labour, they'd get in!!

Me: Umm - sorry - don't think you know how elections work

F: Fucking patronising twat! Go on then - I'll give you 5-1 odds he doesn't get elected - you know I'm right!

Me: (deep breath) Go on then - elected to what?

F: Government!!!!!

Me: See, that's why I'm concerned about your awareness. You're supposed to be a Glasgow Socialist so I would expect different from you. I say again, prediction is a 40+ majority for Labour and Miliband is leader of the Labour Party. You seem to be saying you want Cameron back?

F: Cameron can do one - I'm telling you that Miliband lacks charisma and the electorate need that"

The exchange continued by text the next morning so I knew he thought this even when sober. It is quite the most unsettling experience I've had in years - the absolute unshakeable certainty that 'no-one likes Ed and he's unelectable, so there it is'.

This is NOT a dig at 51A...just a comment that the battle for Ed is massive if the 'everyone thinks...unelectable' line is so entrenched. Everyone that meets Ed seems to come away surprised at how nice he is, how he's nothing like as weird as he seems in the papers and that he knows what he's talking about and is sincere.

My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough) is that, although there's a fair bit of froth around the Conference season, the MSM don't seem be able to hide the Kilimanjaro of Coalition crap under the carpet any more (and certain members of the media - we're looking at you, Eddie Mair - seem to be delighting in lifting the edges of said carpet), leading to fractures and schisms on the right...and as the froth dies down, the very real differences between the parties will be clear and Ed will get a fair run (let's not forget that a couple of months ago Ed said specifically that was going to take on the 'PR PM').

With all the shit surrounding the ATOS/DWP/keep it as a 'tick-box' bollocks, Labour are still a long way from what I want to see as the ruling party (for want of a better phrase) but....if we don't want another dose of the Coalition of Clowns, Ed really is the only show in town....so, I believe(TM) everyone who's anti-coalition must try to convince others that 'unelectable' isn't an option.

Again - this is not a dig at 51A

Edited to add: Good morning!

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:41 am

There was a bit of traffic yesterday around Ivan Cameron...so, like a scratched record, I'll link these again...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... party.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 69618.html

...the cuts to this Charity were one of the first things they did when they entered Downing St - so...a multi-millionaire whines about the difficulty of claiming a benefit for his son, gets free care and help through the NHS...and immediately removes that help from the parents who don't have Trust Funds and really need it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:42 am

Seems like Ed needs to get himself to every WI group in the country between now and the GE.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:51 am

Lonewolfie wrote:From yesterday....

"AngryAsWell
I'm convinced it will be a Labour landslide

51A
I wish I was convinced, I live in hope of the electorate saying "no" to more austerity whilst not ever punishing the real culprits but I have to say, I have never seen Labour so unelectable. No-one likes Ed. Unpalateable but true, sadly."

I had a conversation with a very close Glaswegian Socialist (at least, he used to be (a Socialist, that is)) friend last week along these very lines..

"Friend: Ach, Milibands UNELECTABLE

Me: Why

F: 'cos he is!!

Me: Electoral Calculus have a predicted Labour majority of over 40 seats

F: Brilliant. Focus on what you want. Surely not one guy and a great society(??) Why are you so hung up on Miliband?

Me: Umm - you brought him up and categorically stated that he's unelectable…I have a different opinion and it took some effort to get you to shut up long enough to hear it!

F: I'll bet £50 he doesn't get elected - wake up!! - If Boris were in charge of Labour, they'd get in!!

Me: Umm - sorry - don't think you know how elections work

F: Fucking patronising twat! Go on then - I'll give you 5-1 odds he doesn't get elected - you know I'm right!

Me: (deep breath) Go on then - elected to what?

F: Government!!!!!

Me: See, that's why I'm concerned about your awareness. You're supposed to be a Glasgow Socialist so I would expect different from you. I say again, prediction is a 40+ majority for Labour and Miliband is leader of the Labour Party. You seem to be saying you want Cameron back?

F: Cameron can do one - I'm telling you that Miliband lacks charisma and the electorate need that"

The exchange continued by text the next morning so I knew he thought this even when sober. It is quite the most unsettling experience I've had in years - the absolute unshakeable certainty that 'no-one likes Ed and he's unelectable, so there it is'.

This is NOT a dig at 51A...just a comment that the battle for Ed is massive if the 'everyone thinks...unelectable' line is so entrenched. Everyone that meets Ed seems to come away surprised at how nice he is, how he's nothing like as weird as he seems in the papers and that he knows what he's talking about and is sincere.

My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough) is that, although there's a fair bit of froth around the Conference season, the MSM don't seem be able to hide the Kilimanjaro of Coalition crap under the carpet any more (and certain members of the media - we're looking at you, Eddie Mair - seem to be delighting in lifting the edges of said carpet), leading to fractures and schisms on the right...and as the froth dies down, the very real differences between the parties will be clear and Ed will get a fair run (let's not forget that a couple of months ago Ed said specifically that was going to take on the 'PR PM').

With all the shit surrounding the ATOS/DWP/keep it as a 'tick-box' bollocks, Labour are still a long way from what I want to see as the ruling party (for want of a better phrase) but....if we don't want another dose of the Coalition of Clowns, Ed really is the only show in town....so, I believe(TM) everyone who's anti-coalition must try to convince others that 'unelectable' isn't an option.

Again - this is not a dig at 51A

Edited to add: Good morning!

That sounds uncannily like a conversation I had with a Scottish socialist friend of my own; how Ed is unelectable, how I am blind for continuing to support him or even for suggesting that the important battle is to ditch the Tories. In all seriousness I was told that we English could no longer rely on the Scots bailing us out, we were on our own now and devil take the hindmost! In fact my support for Miliband was so inexplicable that she has now ended our friendship!!

I know that attitude is not held my a majority of Scots, even the 45ers (btw how convenient that it was 45%, '45' has such a resonance with Scottish history) but the minority holding this view are being loud and are flooding social media; I said before the referendum that I thought we would all lose, I've seen little to disabuse me of that pessimistic notion as positions become entrenched.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:54 am

Lonewolfie wrote:From yesterday....

"AngryAsWell
I'm convinced it will be a Labour landslide

51A
I wish I was convinced, I live in hope of the electorate saying "no" to more austerity whilst not ever punishing the real culprits but I have to say, I have never seen Labour so unelectable. No-one likes Ed. Unpalateable but true, sadly."

I had a conversation with a very close Glaswegian Socialist (at least, he used to be (a Socialist, that is)) friend last week along these very lines..

"Friend: Ach, Milibands UNELECTABLE

Morning

Me: Why

F: 'cos he is!!

Me: Electoral Calculus have a predicted Labour majority of over 40 seats

F: Brilliant. Focus on what you want. Surely not one guy and a great society(??) Why are you so hung up on Miliband?

Me: Umm - you brought him up and categorically stated that he's unelectable…I have a different opinion and it took some effort to get you to shut up long enough to hear it!

F: I'll bet £50 he doesn't get elected - wake up!! - If Boris were in charge of Labour, they'd get in!!

Me: Umm - sorry - don't think you know how elections work

F: Fucking patronising twat! Go on then - I'll give you 5-1 odds he doesn't get elected - you know I'm right!

Me: (deep breath) Go on then - elected to what?

F: Government!!!!!

Me: See, that's why I'm concerned about your awareness. You're supposed to be a Glasgow Socialist so I would expect different from you. I say again, prediction is a 40+ majority for Labour and Miliband is leader of the Labour Party. You seem to be saying you want Cameron back?

F: Cameron can do one - I'm telling you that Miliband lacks charisma and the electorate need that"

The exchange continued by text the next morning so I knew he thought this even when sober. It is quite the most unsettling experience I've had in years - the absolute unshakeable certainty that 'no-one likes Ed and he's unelectable, so there it is'.

This is NOT a dig at 51A...just a comment that the battle for Ed is massive if the 'everyone thinks...unelectable' line is so entrenched. Everyone that meets Ed seems to come away surprised at how nice he is, how he's nothing like as weird as he seems in the papers and that he knows what he's talking about and is sincere.

My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough) is that, although there's a fair bit of froth around the Conference season, the MSM don't seem be able to hide the Kilimanjaro of Coalition crap under the carpet any more (and certain members of the media - we're looking at you, Eddie Mair - seem to be delighting in lifting the edges of said carpet), leading to fractures and schisms on the right...and as the froth dies down, the very real differences between the parties will be clear and Ed will get a fair run (let's not forget that a couple of months ago Ed said specifically that was going to take on the 'PR PM').

With all the shit surrounding the ATOS/DWP/keep it as a 'tick-box' bollocks, Labour are still a long way from what I want to see as the ruling party (for want of a better phrase) but....if we don't want another dose of the Coalition of Clowns, Ed really is the only show in town....so, I believe(TM) everyone who's anti-coalition must try to convince others that 'unelectable' isn't an option.

Again - this is not a dig at 51A

Edited to add: Good morning!

Morning Wolfie

Did you see that Brooks/News UK dropped the chance to recover up to £20m in legal costs in order to avoid being further questioned about phone hacking in court ?

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/10/02/ ... nion-phone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2014/10/01/ ... sts-refund

Agree with what you say about Miliband.
Makes me really mad to see comedians who should know better, on shows like Mock The Week, calling Ed weird and hopeless.

[& thanks to OhSo for missing me yesterday. Have been feeling low, trying to outdo the dark feelings by keeping busy]

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:54 am

Lonewolfie wrote:My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough)

Just north? Stamford is just north of Peterborough, and is nowhere near as pretty as your part of the world; I always fancied moving there just so I could say (as you are) "I live in Hope"!

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:58 am

...and so - back to my favourite soap-box...some interesting reads (as ever, apologies if they've been linked already)...

http://hackinginquiry.org/comment/the-t ... t-spectre/

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... vies-found

http://fothom.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/ ... ders-memo/

The last one's quite telling, I think...Brookes/Newcorpse say 'we want our money back'...Justice Saunders says 'OK - lets have a think'...Grayling at the MoJ says 'we want to know what's going on too'...Justice Saunders says 'OK then, you can appply for the money, but we'll need to have another look at your involvement in the whole thing'...MoJ change their minds and Brookes/Newcorpse say 'oh no...that's fine...no no, we'll withdraw'.

Drip, drip, drippety f*****g drip.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 9:59 am

Snap Yah Yah

Crossover posts

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:02 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough)
Just north? Stamford is just north of Peterborough, and is nowhere near as pretty as your part of the world; I always fancied moving there just so I could say (as you are) "I live in Hope"!

Who said anything about Stamford?

I couldn't possibly comment

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:05 am

Lonewolfie wrote:Snap Yah Yah Crossover posts

Two minds -

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:06 am

The women who insist they can't make ends meet on £100,000 a year: Dubbed the 'squeezed upper middle', they struggle to pay for school fees, lavish holidays and desirable addresses to keep up with their friends. Hankies at the ready!
New social stratum 'squeezed upper middle' identified by Oxford professor
Refers to high-earners struggling to achieve aristocratic aspirations
They compare themselves to the super-rich and want the same lifestyle
But hefty mortgages and private school fees leave them feeling strained
And stops them going on the dream holidays their friends all talk about
In the last 25 years private day school fees have risen by 461 per cent
Symptom of feeling hard done by is said to be common with couples in the south of England who have an 'unrealistic vision of the world'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ready.html

A Daily Mail special. (Really not sure why it is the women making the headlines when the article is about couples ...).

This must be the dreaded Olly Grender virus in its most extreme form.

...Social commentator Peter York says that it is common for couples, like the Burghards, who live in the South of England and who are, in fact, doing very well, to consider themselves hard done by, because they develop an ‘unrealistic vision’ of the world, as a result of constantly comparing themselves with the super-rich with whom they socialise...

It's obviously very infectious.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:22 am

Not sure if these have been linked...

http://dpac.uk.net/2014/09/take-part-in ... ober-2014/

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/10 ... -workfare/ (which has a nice 'Hall of Shame' graphic)

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/10 ... efit-bill/

Interesting to see Amsterdam on the list...but it's definitely not a co-ordinated plan by the Raygunite-Thatcherite-Murkydochian-Banksters to drive division into all societies, hoover up all financial resources and create an economic 'underclass'...nope....absolutely not, and anyone who thinks so is an 'away with the fairies conspiracy theorist with tinfoil for hair'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:41 am

Peter Preston ‏@PJPrest 22m22 minutes ago
Just scanning Gdn reader comments on LibDem leader wondering sadly where all the hate and forgetfulness come from http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I think he may be prone to 'forgetfulness' himself. I'm wondering sadly how he couldn't know where it has come from.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:46 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Peter Preston ‏@PJPrest 22m22 minutes ago
Just scanning Gdn reader comments on LibDem leader wondering sadly where all the hate and forgetfulness come from http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I think he may be prone to 'forgetfulness' himself. I'm wondering sadly how he couldn't know where it has come from.

Well, he *is* getting on now (apologies for ageist comment, everybody

)

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:54 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Rejoice! Tis the Lib Dem's annual happy clap - with a bit of renting of shirts on the fringe. (Is their conference big enough now to have a fringe?)

We have a few days of these articles to look forward to ... get sharpening your claws.

Jeremy Browne: The 360-degree liberal
The Lib Dem MP and former minister on the radical new direction his party needs to take to recover.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ee-liberal

...These may be grim days for the Lib Dems but, he declares, they are glorious for liberals.

“We live in the liberal age now,” he tells me. “There’s never been a time when liberalism was more dominant in British politics and more equipped to answer the big challenges that we face as a country.” As a result of the rise of a more individualistic and less deferential society, he says, “We have a bigger marketplace in which to sell our product than we have had since the advent of universal suffrage.” The precondition for a Lib Dem recovery, he argues, is that his party understands and seizes this moment...
Ummm, yum. Doesn't he make that 'product' sound appealing? (I thought 'product' was something hairdressers try to flog you after they've charged you the earth for a haircut with a scorching blowdry and condition that you didn't really want).

Whenever I read anything about Jeremy Browne that voice of his comes into my head, like something from a public information film from the 50s, or a 1940s Rank film, he almost makes Clegg look appealing with his free market fundamentalism, which masquerades as liberalism.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:58 am

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-car-coat.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car coats are outwear which were originally designed for driving in open cars, which could get cold in the evening or at high rates of speed. They often also have a stylish flair, so that a dashing motorist could step out of a vehicle looking fashionable. Many companies make car coats to wear in various contexts, not just cars; such a garment can be a stylish and useful addition to a wardrobe.

The main distinguishing feature of a car coat is the A-line style, flat front, and mid-thigh length. These features make it practical for wearing in a car, because they allow a driver to move comfortably while staying warm. The A-line ensures that there is room around the hips to move, since it creates a slight flare in the coat. The flat front reduces the probability of bunching, which can cause discomfort, and the mid-thigh length prevents the driver from becoming tangled in the coat.

Am very confident this can be improved on.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 10:59 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Peter Preston ‏@PJPrest 22m22 minutes ago
Just scanning Gdn reader comments on LibDem leader wondering sadly where all the hate and forgetfulness come from http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I think he may be prone to 'forgetfulness' himself. I'm wondering sadly how he couldn't know where it has come from.
Well, he *is* getting on now (apologies for ageist comment, everybody )

Tweet him with.

Campaigned to the left of Labour - Governed to the right of Thatcher. What do you expect?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:00 am

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=nigel ... CAYQ_AUoAQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(images for google search : nigel farage carcoat)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:03 am

Good morning.

Here's one for all those Matthew Hancock fans out there - and I know there are so many of you . . . .

Out by 117 miles – office of Minister for Portsmouth mistakes Milton for Milton Keynes (News)

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/ ... -1-6338464

And black cats are splendid creatures.

@rebeccariots2

Hope the dog's ok.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:04 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-car-coat.htm

Car coats are outwear which were originally designed for driving in open cars, which could get cold in the evening or at high rates of speed. They often also have a stylish flair, so that a dashing motorist could step out of a vehicle looking fashionable. Many companies make car coats to wear in various contexts, not just cars; such a garment can be a stylish and useful addition to a wardrobe.

The main distinguishing feature of a car coat is the A-line style, flat front, and mid-thigh length. These features make it practical for wearing in a car, because they allow a driver to move comfortably while staying warm. The A-line ensures that there is room around the hips to move, since it creates a slight flare in the coat. The flat front reduces the probability of bunching, which can cause discomfort, and the mid-thigh length prevents the driver from becoming tangled in the coat.
Am very confident this can be improved on.

I'm not so sure.

It's quite a corker. I never knew what a supreme example of functional design the carcoat represents.
Very glad it reduces the probability of bunching. That sounds horrible.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:07 am

@YahYah:

[& thanks to OhSo for missing me yesterday. Have been feeling low, trying to outdo the dark feelings by keeping busy]

Sorry you're feeling low. You're doing the best thing keeping busy...Chin up!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:20 am

Quote:
The women who insist they can't make ends meet on £100,000 a year: Dubbed the 'squeezed upper middle', they struggle to pay for school fees, lavish holidays and desirable addresses to keep up with their friends. Hankies at the ready!
New social stratum 'squeezed upper middle' identified by Oxford professor
Refers to high-earners struggling to achieve aristocratic aspirations
They compare themselves to the super-rich and want the same lifestyle
But hefty mortgages and private school fees leave them feeling strained
And stops them going on the dream holidays their friends all talk about
In the last 25 years private day school fees have risen by 461 per cent
Symptom of feeling hard done by is said to be common with couples in the south of England who have an 'unrealistic vision of the world'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ready.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm in the South East, but it's like living in a parallel universe. And many more like me.

My son does the gardens of the rich. He's a very gentle, compassionate man and was brought up to live and let live, but the other day he said 'I hate them mum. They either treat you like shit, or literally walk past you as if you don't exist.

His company have just won the contract to do the gardens of a multi-millionairess. She's got a butler and all the trimmings. He's going to be there five days a week, and they've said she's a cow to work for....He's getting really unhappy with it all.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:23 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I think he may be prone to 'forgetfulness' himself. I'm wondering sadly how he couldn't know where it has come from.
Well, he *is* getting on now (apologies for ageist comment, everybody )
Tweet him with.

Campaigned to the left of Labour - Governed to the right of Thatcher. What do you expect?

Done for you.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:23 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:From yesterday....

"AngryAsWell
I'm convinced it will be a Labour landslide

51A
I wish I was convinced, I live in hope of the electorate saying "no" to more austerity whilst not ever punishing the real culprits but I have to say, I have never seen Labour so unelectable. No-one likes Ed. Unpalateable but true, sadly."

I had a conversation with a very close Glaswegian Socialist (at least, he used to be (a Socialist, that is)) friend last week along these very lines..

"Friend: Ach, Milibands UNELECTABLE

Me: Why

F: 'cos he is!!

Me: Electoral Calculus have a predicted Labour majority of over 40 seats

F: Brilliant. Focus on what you want. Surely not one guy and a great society(??) Why are you so hung up on Miliband?

Me: Umm - you brought him up and categorically stated that he's unelectable…I have a different opinion and it took some effort to get you to shut up long enough to hear it!

F: I'll bet £50 he doesn't get elected - wake up!! - If Boris were in charge of Labour, they'd get in!!

Me: Umm - sorry - don't think you know how elections work

F: Fucking patronising twat! Go on then - I'll give you 5-1 odds he doesn't get elected - you know I'm right!

Me: (deep breath) Go on then - elected to what?

F: Government!!!!!

Me: See, that's why I'm concerned about your awareness. You're supposed to be a Glasgow Socialist so I would expect different from you. I say again, prediction is a 40+ majority for Labour and Miliband is leader of the Labour Party. You seem to be saying you want Cameron back?

F: Cameron can do one - I'm telling you that Miliband lacks charisma and the electorate need that"

The exchange continued by text the next morning so I knew he thought this even when sober. It is quite the most unsettling experience I've had in years - the absolute unshakeable certainty that 'no-one likes Ed and he's unelectable, so there it is'.

This is NOT a dig at 51A...just a comment that the battle for Ed is massive if the 'everyone thinks...unelectable' line is so entrenched. Everyone that meets Ed seems to come away surprised at how nice he is, how he's nothing like as weird as he seems in the papers and that he knows what he's talking about and is sincere.

My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough) is that, although there's a fair bit of froth around the Conference season, the MSM don't seem be able to hide the Kilimanjaro of Coalition crap under the carpet any more (and certain members of the media - we're looking at you, Eddie Mair - seem to be delighting in lifting the edges of said carpet), leading to fractures and schisms on the right...and as the froth dies down, the very real differences between the parties will be clear and Ed will get a fair run (let's not forget that a couple of months ago Ed said specifically that was going to take on the 'PR PM').

With all the shit surrounding the ATOS/DWP/keep it as a 'tick-box' bollocks, Labour are still a long way from what I want to see as the ruling party (for want of a better phrase) but....if we don't want another dose of the Coalition of Clowns, Ed really is the only show in town....so, I believe(TM) everyone who's anti-coalition must try to convince others that 'unelectable' isn't an option.

Again - this is not a dig at 51A

Edited to add: Good morning!
That sounds uncannily like a conversation I had with a Scottish socialist friend of my own; how Ed is unelectable, how I am blind for continuing to support him or even for suggesting that the important battle is to ditch the Tories. In all seriousness I was told that we English could no longer rely on the Scots bailing us out, we were on our own now and devil take the hindmost! In fact my support for Miliband was so inexplicable that she has now ended our friendship!!

I know that attitude is not held my a majority of Scots, even the 45ers (btw how convenient that it was 45%, '45' has such a resonance with Scottish history) but the minority holding this view are being loud and are flooding social media; I said before the referendum that I thought we would all lose, I've seen little to disabuse me of that pessimistic notion as positions become entrenched.

Vote SNP, get a Tory? Nice one.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:30 am

Retweeted by Jim Pickard
Brian Groom ‏@GroomB 14m14 minutes ago
Civil servants planning for two elections next year, like 1974. Could delay new spending cuts for months. @PickardJE http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ee468bfa-4b18-1 ... z3F0w1bBXJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:39 am

And a little bird has just told me a Chinese Consortium has just bought Wentworth Golf Course and are going to invest a lot more money.

So, Hong Kong won't get much sympathy.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:41 am

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-6877839" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hague is either deluded or a willing forelock tugger. If we're so classless how come

http://www.suttontrust.com/newsarchive/ ... ge-places/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (5 elite schools send as many people to oxbridge as 1800 state schools)

and

http://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/u ... -final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oxbridge accounts for 41 to 68% of top positions in all influential professions from journalism (41) through financial services (47) and Law (58) to diplomatic service (68%).

Yeah, totally classless society Bill.

Classhole.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:41 am

ohsocynical wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:From yesterday....

"AngryAsWell
I'm convinced it will be a Labour landslide

51A
I wish I was convinced, I live in hope of the electorate saying "no" to more austerity whilst not ever punishing the real culprits but I have to say, I have never seen Labour so unelectable. No-one likes Ed. Unpalateable but true, sadly."

I had a conversation with a very close Glaswegian Socialist (at least, he used to be (a Socialist, that is)) friend last week along these very lines..

"Friend: Ach, Milibands UNELECTABLE

Me: Why

F: 'cos he is!!

Me: Electoral Calculus have a predicted Labour majority of over 40 seats

F: Brilliant. Focus on what you want. Surely not one guy and a great society(??) Why are you so hung up on Miliband?

Me: Umm - you brought him up and categorically stated that he's unelectable…I have a different opinion and it took some effort to get you to shut up long enough to hear it!

F: I'll bet £50 he doesn't get elected - wake up!! - If Boris were in charge of Labour, they'd get in!!

Me: Umm - sorry - don't think you know how elections work

F: Fucking patronising twat! Go on then - I'll give you 5-1 odds he doesn't get elected - you know I'm right!

Me: (deep breath) Go on then - elected to what?

F: Government!!!!!

Me: See, that's why I'm concerned about your awareness. You're supposed to be a Glasgow Socialist so I would expect different from you. I say again, prediction is a 40+ majority for Labour and Miliband is leader of the Labour Party. You seem to be saying you want Cameron back?

F: Cameron can do one - I'm telling you that Miliband lacks charisma and the electorate need that"

The exchange continued by text the next morning so I knew he thought this even when sober. It is quite the most unsettling experience I've had in years - the absolute unshakeable certainty that 'no-one likes Ed and he's unelectable, so there it is'.

This is NOT a dig at 51A...just a comment that the battle for Ed is massive if the 'everyone thinks...unelectable' line is so entrenched. Everyone that meets Ed seems to come away surprised at how nice he is, how he's nothing like as weird as he seems in the papers and that he knows what he's talking about and is sincere.

My hope (which is also where I live, just north of Peterborough) is that, although there's a fair bit of froth around the Conference season, the MSM don't seem be able to hide the Kilimanjaro of Coalition crap under the carpet any more (and certain members of the media - we're looking at you, Eddie Mair - seem to be delighting in lifting the edges of said carpet), leading to fractures and schisms on the right...and as the froth dies down, the very real differences between the parties will be clear and Ed will get a fair run (let's not forget that a couple of months ago Ed said specifically that was going to take on the 'PR PM').

With all the shit surrounding the ATOS/DWP/keep it as a 'tick-box' bollocks, Labour are still a long way from what I want to see as the ruling party (for want of a better phrase) but....if we don't want another dose of the Coalition of Clowns, Ed really is the only show in town....so, I believe(TM) everyone who's anti-coalition must try to convince others that 'unelectable' isn't an option.

Again - this is not a dig at 51A

Edited to add: Good morning!
That sounds uncannily like a conversation I had with a Scottish socialist friend of my own; how Ed is unelectable, how I am blind for continuing to support him or even for suggesting that the important battle is to ditch the Tories. In all seriousness I was told that we English could no longer rely on the Scots bailing us out, we were on our own now and devil take the hindmost! In fact my support for Miliband was so inexplicable that she has now ended our friendship!!

I know that attitude is not held my a majority of Scots, even the 45ers (btw how convenient that it was 45%, '45' has such a resonance with Scottish history) but the minority holding this view are being loud and are flooding social media; I said before the referendum that I thought we would all lose, I've seen little to disabuse me of that pessimistic notion as positions become entrenched.
Vote SNP, get a Tory? Nice one.

Ah, you don't understand. We are all Red Tories, the only true socialists left now are north of the border and Salmond is their prophet; never mind that he was cosying up to Murdoch, he is still ideologically purer than the English.

Apologies to those who post on here who were pro-Indy. This isn't a dig at you, or the vast majority of those who voted Yes but I'm just getting hacked off with the self righteous attitude of some of the 45ers and their "f*** the English" rhetoric; it isn't healthy and is, to be frank, giving Lynton exactly what he wants.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 11:57 am

Lonewolfie wrote:There was a bit of traffic yesterday around Ivan Cameron...so, like a scratched record, I'll link these again...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... party.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 69618.html

...the cuts to this Charity were one of the first things they did when they entered Downing St - so...a multi-millionaire whines about the difficulty of claiming a benefit for his son, gets free care and help through the NHS...and immediately removes that help from the parents who don't have Trust Funds and really need it.

The Welfare Reform Act has also removed the presumption of NI contributions from sick children like Ivan Cameron.

The position used to be that children for whom DLA was claimed would automatically be credited with NI conts. If they survived to adulthood, that meant they could claim contributory benefits if they needed to on their majority - and while Incapacity Benefit was still in operation, they could claim that long-term and continue to receive NI credits so that if they survived to old age they would be assured a full pension. The WRA has removed this - and of course IB is being abolished - so if sick children survive they will be means-tested as adults.
There is a significant cohort of children who are profoundly disabled as a result of birth trauma and/or other medical problems including negligence; they invariably get substantial compensation awards designed to help support some of their disability needs throughout their lives, which in many cases could be very long. Those awards are not designed to provide income - they are for things like specialist home adaptations, equipment, care needs, etc. but will in future be means-tested. With no NI record, that means that children with the same sort of problems as Ivan who survive to adulthood will not have entitlement to benefit income until their savings - which compensation payments can count towards - are exhausted.

DLA, which continues for children, is a universal benefit. Cameron had every right to claim it - it's not the income that matters so much for children of wealthier parents, it's the access the higher components of DLA provide to passported support like community physio, respite care, and, until it was abolished, help from the Independent Living Fund. It's based on disability need, rather than income.
I suspect that PIP will eventually be brought in for children too, although DLA stays for them for now.

What the WRA has done - as Universal Credit will do for all adult benefit claimants, working or not - is ensure that any sick/disabled children who survive to adulthood will be subject to the same conditions as everyone else.
I think this may sound fair to some - but the fact is that sick children, like our injured ex-service personnel, will have the compensation money specifically awarded to them for the purpose of making their practical lives easier will be means-tested as though it was income.
As Universal Credit may be the only benefit available to their carers by then, the entire household will be means-tested on the basis of this, and it is possible that money that should be excluded will be supporting families who ought to be supported by benefits.

Cameron, of course, didn't actually NEED the cash. He had at least 2 nannies, and even the highest rates of DLA wouldn't cover that.
But he also got a leased car paid for with DLA, free incontinence aids, access to other services which comes with DLA entitlement.
He could have had the best for Ivan without DLA - and he clearly does not understand that very few others are so lucky.
What really sticks in the craw is that the universal benefits he rightly claimed for Ivan he is now happy to see removed from those who rely on them much more heavily than he ever had to - and I have to wonder if he would have been so keen to see this happen had the poor boy still been alive.

I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to care for a child so profoundly disabled as Ivan Cameron; I cannot begin to comprehend the grief felt by parents who lose a child. But what I abhor is the frequent, deliberate, cynical, and sympathy-seeking references to to a dead child in the attempt to demonstrate that his father actually cares about the services he used and praises so highly whilst being happy to see them removed from everyone else now that he doesn't need them any more.

Cameron is not an unintelligent man - he knows exactly what he is doing and he knows exactly what his henchmen are doing.
For that he deserves all the opprobrium I can heap on him.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:35 pm

Have just washed Mr Ohso's mobile phone

Luckily not an expensive one

His fault. In 52 years, I have never checked his pockets.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:36 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-car-coat.htm

Car coats are outwear which were originally designed for driving in open cars, which could get cold in the evening or at high rates of speed. They often also have a stylish flair, so that a dashing motorist could step out of a vehicle looking fashionable. Many companies make car coats to wear in various contexts, not just cars; such a garment can be a stylish and useful addition to a wardrobe.

The main distinguishing feature of a car coat is the A-line style, flat front, and mid-thigh length. These features make it practical for wearing in a car, because they allow a driver to move comfortably while staying warm. The A-line ensures that there is room around the hips to move, since it creates a slight flare in the coat. The flat front reduces the probability of bunching, which can cause discomfort, and the mid-thigh length prevents the driver from becoming tangled in the coat.
Am very confident this can be improved on.
I'm not so sure. It's quite a corker. I never knew what a supreme example of functional design the carcoat represents.
Very glad it reduces the probability of bunching. That sounds horrible.

In my alter-ego incarnation as Lady Jacobia Rees-Moggy, I can instruct you thus - car coats are spivvery of the highest order.

The cognoscenti drive their own Bugattis only along the Adriatic Coast when enjoying the latter-day equivalent of the Grand Tour.

Otherwise, one is driven, one does not drive. One's drivahs wear suitable livery.

Car coats are an abomination, and worn only by the lower orders who may own factories or are otherwise involved with trade. They have been known to wear "driving gloves" with large holes in - such is their stupidity. In fact, they'll wear anything made of string, including a thing called a vest. I wouldn't be surprised if they had shirts made of nylon. Ghastly.

A Farage is an industrial-type building in which the hoi polloi keep their ghastly Rolls Royces (which no self-respecting gentleman would even consider owning) and decent people keep their Bentleys in the mews, and the drivahs with them.

The only acceptable coat when travelling for a gentleman is a jacket of hunting pink when on horseback, or a cashmere overcoat when driven. And for the ladies, Mummy's Russian sable (mink is so cheap).

Don't you people know ANYTHING?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:46 pm

It's going to be like sticking hot needles in my eye, but I have decided to follow the LibDem Conference on Twitter. Summer has finally departed, it's cold wet and miserable today, so I might as well pass the time being insulting.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:52 pm

ohsocynical wrote:It's going to be like sticking hot needles in my eye, but I have decided to follow the LibDem Conference on Twitter. Summer has finally departed, it's cold wet and miserable today, so I might as well pass the time being insulting.

I might join you there - have you got a link to it ?
I feel a little rage might just warm me through - very chilly here this am.

Ooo feeling warmer already

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:53 pm

Quote:
Car coats are outwear which were originally designed for driving in open cars, which could get cold in the evening or at high rates of speed. They often also have a stylish flair, so that a dashing motorist could step out of a vehicle looking fashionable. Many companies make car coats to wear in various contexts, not just cars; such a garment can be a stylish and useful addition to a wardrobe.

The main distinguishing feature of a car coat is the A-line style, flat front, and mid-thigh length. These features make it practical for wearing in a car, because they allow a driver to move comfortably while staying warm. The A-line ensures that there is room around the hips to move, since it creates a slight flare in the coat. The flat front reduces the probability of bunching, which can cause discomfort, and the mid-thigh length prevents the driver from becoming tangled in the coat.

I used to clear houses. In the seventies, I came upon a 1920's car coat stuffed in a cupboard in a garage.
Mid blue, thick leather, A line, belted, huge lapels, which could also button across the chest and give extra protection, ankle length and after a clean up with some dubbin, wearable. Sold almost as soon as we put it on display.
Students were into vintage clothes in those days...Wore white cotton Victorian nightdresses as day wear....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:54 pm

Press release
Review of standards for teaching assistants launched
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/revi ... s-launched" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:55 pm

cf: carcoats.

Excellent to have Lady Moggy's perspective on this. Exactly what we needed.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 12:58 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:It's going to be like sticking hot needles in my eye, but I have decided to follow the LibDem Conference on Twitter. Summer has finally departed, it's cold wet and miserable today, so I might as well pass the time being insulting.
I might join you there - have you got a link to it ?
I feel a little rage might just warm me through - very chilly here this am.
Ooo feeling warmer already

Liberal Democrats @LibDems

I'm dimayray.

Resisting any sort of heating at present. The longer I can go, the more we can keep warm when it gets really cold.
Have my warm slippers on and a long cardigan...The end of my nose is cold though!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 1:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:It's going to be like sticking hot needles in my eye, but I have decided to follow the LibDem Conference on Twitter. Summer has finally departed, it's cold wet and miserable today, so I might as well pass the time being insulting.
I might join you there - have you got a link to it ?
I feel a little rage might just warm me through - very chilly here this am.
Ooo feeling warmer already
Liberal Democrats @LibDems

I'm dimayray.

Resisting any sort of heating at present. The longer I can go, the more we can keep warm when it gets really cold.
Have my warm slippers on and a long cardigan...The end of my nose is cold though!

Me to, booty slippers (heaven only know what Lady Jacobia Rees-Moggy would think of them) thin fleece and big cardy on here.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 1:04 pm

Isn't it weird. Although it was a lot of years ago now and I helped my dad long before I took over the business which makes it the best part of 40 years, I've always been able to remember practically every house we cleared. Where it was, what it looked like when we had to put in a quote, the contents and in many cases the customers who bought some of it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 04 Oct, 2014 1:05 pm

Oh Boy - anyone want to watch the FibDems?
http://www.libdems.org.uk/conferencelive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Sorry for the link - I'll get my carcoat and go...)