Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It would be a much better and more honest General Election if Clegg and Cameron simply presented their joint Coalition plans for the future.
As if to prove me right

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... esses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vince-Cable-admits-green-taxes-are-damaging-British-businesses
Yes, otherwise you get two leaders pointing at each other saying "It was him!"

This was always going to get tricky for both to distance themselves -at or just after party conference was always favourite to start claiming the victories for yourself and blaming everything on the other partner.

Cabinet meetings should be fun...shame they're not filmed.
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StephenDolan
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by StephenDolan »

Temulkar wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://politicalbetting.com/
The race [rochester and strood] becomes a tie – but Labour could snatch it
14/1 on Labour winning the by-election looks very tasty, in light of the above, but I think most of my money today will be going on a Tory hold.

Dunno; if I was a labour supporter in Rochester, I would be seriously tempted to vote UKIP just to heap misery on Cameron. Two defeats could really bring him down.
Absolutely, any pressure on him to veer to the right has got to be a good thing.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by tinyclanger2 »

crappy Guardian sub-ed wrote:Labour NHS funding pledge unravels
Coalition parties accuse Labour of deceit after party confirms none of £2.5bn pledge would be raised in first year in power
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-unravels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Perhaps we could just provide a headline translation service. This, for example would become something along the lines of:

Labour NHS funding pledge clarified
Coalition parties look stupid as Labour party explains that money cannot be spent before it has been raised.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

Thank you for your ten letters concerning the lack of a TV license at this address... A non-TV household fights back

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol!:
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by tinyclanger2 »

same crappy Guardian sub-ed wrote:Liberal Democrats would raise taxes on the rich, Nick Clegg vows
Party leader says George Osborne’s plan to eliminate Britain’s structural deficit is to target the poor with ‘undisguised relish’
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nick-clegg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
for example, would become:

Nick Clegg confirms LibDems will do whatever it takes to stay friends with the Queen's distant cousin, Dave.
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ErnstRemarx
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

AngryAsWell wrote:@Ernst
Have you seen this? UKIP playing really dirty :fire: - glad to see Bolton have got police involved
It reads: “The Labour controlled towns of Bolton, Bury, Oxford and Derby, which are run by the politically correct/diversity Labour brigades, are under investigation as part of police operation Doublet following the Rotherham and Rochdale scandals in which disgusting child sex abuse has been going on.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ts-7864169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a load of abject, desperate cock. We've just had our Children's Services inspected by CQC, and oddly enough, they think we're pretty fucking good. It's the usual UKIP smear campaign - weird coming from a bunch of tiny minded morons who wouldn't know how to protect kids unless they could count physical abuse (beating kids) as protection. That's their world. It's the world of Peter and Jane, black and white, good and bad. It's the world of morons.

UKIP supporters are desperate and stupid people who are happy to be deceived. The one thing that comforts me about the meeja's constant rah-rahing of UKIP and the Tories is that once they've achieved their aim of a dangerously right wing government, they'll have to live with it. They might moan about Leveson now, but mark my words, a full on Tory or UKIP government would shut them up for good. They'd have no right of appeal, and perhaps, at that point, it might finally occur to them what the heel the HRA was about and why the executive needs to be tempered by the judiciary, and not the other way round.

Trust me, if the kippers get near the levers of power, the UK is done for. My hope is that ordinary people will see the stark insanity of their proposals and give them a hearty fuck off in response.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

ErnstRemarx wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:@Ernst
Have you seen this? UKIP playing really dirty :fire: - glad to see Bolton have got police involved
It reads: “The Labour controlled towns of Bolton, Bury, Oxford and Derby, which are run by the politically correct/diversity Labour brigades, are under investigation as part of police operation Doublet following the Rotherham and Rochdale scandals in which disgusting child sex abuse has been going on.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ts-7864169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a load of abject, desperate cock. We've just had our Children's Services inspected by CQC, and oddly enough, they think we're pretty fucking good. It's the usual UKIP smear campaign - weird coming from a bunch of tiny minded morons who wouldn't know how to protect kids unless they could count physical abuse (beating kids) as protection. That's their world. It's the world of Peter and Jane, black and white, good and bad. It's the world of morons.

UKIP supporters are desperate and stupid people who are happy to be deceived. The one thing that comforts me about the meeja's constant rah-rahing of UKIP and the Tories is that once they've achieved their aim of a dangerously right wing government, they'll have to live with it. They might moan about Leveson now, but mark my words, a full on Tory or UKIP government would shut them up for good. They'd have no right of appeal, and perhaps, at that point, it might finally occur to them what the heel the HRA was about and why the executive needs to be tempered by the judiciary, and not the other way round.

Trust me, if the kippers get near the levers of power, the UK is done for. My hope is that ordinary people will see the stark insanity of their proposals and give them a hearty fuck off in response.
Agree - but not as hopeful on the people seeing through them in time to prevent the damage they would do.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Agree - but not as hopeful on the people seeing through them in time to prevent the damage they would do.
It's very bizarre. How can anyone think that the Kippers are anything but a bunch of unpleasant xenophobic freaks? Is it us?
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by AngryAsWell »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Agree - but not as hopeful on the people seeing through them in time to prevent the damage they would do.
It's very bizarre. How can anyone think that the Kippers are anything but a bunch of unpleasant xenophobic freaks? Is it us?
I really don't understand how any Labour voter could contemplate voting for them, they now have tory (for now, ex-MP's but soon to be ukippers) and are funded by tory donors. How do they not see through that?
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by tinyclanger2 »

God knows. I honestly struggle to comprehend.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 2m2 minutes ago
Lib Dems defining largest party as one with most votes, not seats, makes coalition 2.0 with DC easier. http://gu.com/p/426yv/tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @guardian
Complete scum. The lot of them.
Can I just point out how irrelevant the Lib Dem statement is.

1. Post 2015 GE they will have 15-20 MPs.
2. Assuming Labour secure say 20 more seats than the Tories how can the Lib Dems form a government with the Tories?
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by tinyclanger2 »

But they are still scum.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

tinyclanger2 wrote:But they are still scum.
Oh yes, there are peer reviewed papers that prove it.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Bloody hell, that article about Labour's plan unravelling has brought tout the usual bunch of liars.

Rochdale A&E closing in 2011 was on Labour's watch apparently. Unfortunately the poster - calling himself FactualEvidence (sic) - can't bring himself to admit that he was wrong.

Oh, and rusty's having a bad evening too...
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Bloody hell, that article about Labour's plan unravelling has brought tout the usual bunch of liars.

Rochdale A&E closing in 2011 was on Labour's watch apparently. Unfortunately the poster - calling himself FactualEvidence (sic) - can't bring himself to admit that he was wrong.

Oh, and rusty's having a bad evening too...
Rusty having a bad evening - excellent. In an ideal world he would be struck down with a painful, humiliating but otherwise harmless medical condition.

Preferably one the NHS no longer treats for economic reasons.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by ohsocynical »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Bloody hell, that article about Labour's plan unravelling has brought tout the usual bunch of liars.

Rochdale A&E closing in 2011 was on Labour's watch apparently. Unfortunately the poster - calling himself FactualEvidence (sic) - can't bring himself to admit that he was wrong.

Oh, and rusty's having a bad evening too...
Rusty having a bad evening - excellent. In an ideal world he would be struck down with a painful, humiliating but otherwise harmless medical condition.

Preferably one the NHS no longer treats for economic reasons.
Or some of PorFavors bumboils. :o
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by HindleA »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Wow even Ian Birrell…

Ian Birrell ‏@ianbirrell 1m1 minute ago
Surely this crazed suggestion to tax disability benefits cannot be for real? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 75338.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Good post here,including the point that IDS policies have exacerbated what he claims to want addressed by the abolition of the SDP


http://wheresthebenefit.blogspot.co.uk/ ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Mon 06 Oct, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Bloody hell, that article about Labour's plan unravelling has brought tout the usual bunch of liars.

Rochdale A&E closing in 2011 was on Labour's watch apparently. Unfortunately the poster - calling himself FactualEvidence (sic) - can't bring himself to admit that he was wrong.

Oh, and rusty's having a bad evening too...
Rusty having a bad evening - excellent. In an ideal world he would be struck down with a painful, humiliating but otherwise harmless medical condition.

Preferably one the NHS no longer treats for economic reasons.
As far as I know neither chronic stupidity nor cranial-rectal insertion are treatable on the NHS are they?
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

NHS bid to get three million patients emailing their own health checks to doctors is axed after GPs complained they were swamped by 'tsunami' of data
David Cameron announced flagship 'telehealth' initiative back in 2011
Said it would save NHS £1.2billion a year and keep patients out of hospital
Got patients to monitor themselves and email results to their doctor
But the programmes have been found to be expensive and ineffective
Older people were put off by having to use modern gizmos to send in details
GPs say politicians should concentrate on getting the basics right

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -axed.html
A flagship scheme launched by David Cameron to get three million people texting or emailing their blood pressure and other vital signs to their GP surgery has been quietly dropped ...
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Double blow for Lib Dems as support goes to Greens and Ukip
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 76018.html
and
Lib Dem Conference Diary: No RSVPs needed for this select bunch of absentees
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 75982.html
This must be why the conference hall looks so empty ... Oakeshott, Mike Hancock, and Rennard aren't there this time.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Double blow for Lib Dems as support goes to Greens and Ukip
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 76018.html
and
Lib Dem Conference Diary: No RSVPs needed for this select bunch of absentees
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 75982.html
This must be why the conference hall looks so empty ... Oakeshott, Mike Hancock, and Rennard aren't there this time.
Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

From Lib Dem Voice
Sunday debates open thread: From first aid to child abuse via crime and public services
http://www.libdemvoice.org/sunday-debat ... 42671.html
...This will be the first full day of action in the splendid auditorium here at the SECC. Expect a full house for the debates on Welfare Reform and Public Services ...
1 comment.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

rebeccariots2 wrote:From Lib Dem Voice
Sunday debates open thread: From first aid to child abuse via crime and public services
http://www.libdemvoice.org/sunday-debat ... 42671.html
...This will be the first full day of action in the splendid auditorium here at the SECC. Expect a full house for the debates on Welfare Reform and Public Services ...
1 comment.
:lol: :lol: :lol: they've a joke aren't they, however much the Guardian want to shove flowers up their arse..
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Just had our second short power cut of the evening.

Expect 'weather' to be with you soon wherever you are. It's very wild and windy here.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by HindleA »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just had our second short power cut of the evening.

Expect 'weather' to be with you soon wherever you are. It's very wild and windy here.

Same here,but that might have been the curry.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

CleggFacingCollapseInYouthVote.jpg
CleggFacingCollapseInYouthVote.jpg (36.25 KiB) Viewed 10990 times
Times Politics ‏@timespolitics 7m7 minutes ago
Clegg facing collapse in youth vote at election http://thetim.es/ZkM6MA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm having to post all these links as an antidote / reality check to the Guardian guff - or flowers up the Lib Dem arse, as letsskip so eloquently puts it.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

HindleA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just had our second short power cut of the evening.

Expect 'weather' to be with you soon wherever you are. It's very wild and windy here.

Same here,but that might have been the curry.
Oo eck - we had curry too. Do you think that could be it?
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Clueless BT 4G network concept turns out to be clueless.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... rdles.html

There is a reason mobile networks are designed very differently to WiFi networks. There are two reasons that your home hub doesn't make a great base station: Transmit power and brick walls.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just had our second short power cut of the evening.

Expect 'weather' to be with you soon wherever you are. It's very wild and windy here.
I am to the east of you, heading my way then, leaving at 7.15 in the morning to go to Cardiff, rain, A470 and rush hour, such joy!
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by ErnstRemarx »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
CleggFacingCollapseInYouthVote.jpg
Times Politics ‏@timespolitics 7m7 minutes ago
Clegg facing collapse in youth vote at election http://thetim.es/ZkM6MA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm having to post all these links as an antidote / reality check to the Guardian guff - or flowers up the Lib Dem arse, as letsskip so eloquently puts it.
Why would any student vote FibDem?

That's the end to that argument.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Green Deal finance firm warns about funding gap
Company providing loans in flagship energy efficiency scheme says state-owned bank has closed off funding channel

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ap-warning
They're considering voluntary liquidation as an option ...

Another coalition 'success'.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by seeingclearly »

ephemerid wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:Not sure if this post from Diary of a Benefit Scrounger made it to this place, if it didn't it should have. It's a huge issue at the moment, probably worse than ever, but it would not be fair to say it is new. Women in particular may recognise this, I know I do.

Don't Worry Your Pretty Little Head. (Ok, this really has to stop)

http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspo ... -stop.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sue's experience is pretty typical these days, I'm sorry to say.

Mine is this - compare and contrast, if you will.

In 1982, I was working at the Royal Masonic Hospital in London. Being staff, I got private care there for free. I had a slipped disc - back then, we didn't have MRI scans and my consultant listened to what I said I was experiencing and treated me accordingly. I had spinal traction for 4 weeks, with him asking me as we went along how things were going - he was perfectly prepared to change his plan for treatment if it wasn't working.
In 1990, the same thing happened again, and I was treated in my local hospital. I was staff there, too; as was the husband, who was well-known around the hospital. The treatment prescribed was not what I thought was was appropriate (spinal fusion) so I asked for, and got, intensive physio while I waited for MRI. This subsequently showed I have spinal stenosis and am thus prone to slipped discs.
Spinal fusion was risky at the best of times, and not appropriate for me at that point. The consultant agreed, and we worked out a rehab with the physios that worked.

In 2005, I had to have a major gynae op. Routine, but major. I was seen by an Advanced Nurse Practitioner who informed me what would happen with the op and the post-op care. I had a few problems with this (especially the standard morphine self-admin pump post-op which as a recovering alkie I wanted to avoid) and I also explained that due to liver damage I was likely to be less ale than most to fight infection and I wanted antibiotic cover.
All of this was supposed to be in my care plan. It wasn't. On the day, I asked the anaesthetist not to write me up for the pump, and told him exactly what analgesia I required. I woke up to find the pump in situ and Show tearing his hair out because not only had I specifically requested not to have it, the thing didn't work. I was in severe pain all night, and every time I asked for help I was told to use the pump - in desperation, I did, but the needle had "tissued" in the vein and I wasn't getting the drug at all.
It all got worse over the next few days. I was put in a room with a loo - which was leaking filthy water all over the floor. I pointed this out to the HCP who was supposed to be helping me to wash, and she chucked a load of dirty sheets out of the linen skip on it - and it stayed there for another 8 hours. I had a continuous single subcutaneous suture, which was removed by a person in a sisters' uniform with the scissors from her pocket without her washing her hands, and when I protested she said it's not a sterile procedure.
The consultant came to see me on day 3 - I said I wanted better care or I'd go home. He laughed and said this is the best there is, I know it's not brilliant, winked, and told me I could go home the next day. Next day, a staff nurse came to ask me if I wanted counselling for the loss of my womanhood, and I said I wanted some antibiotics for what looked like an incipient wound infection.
She refused to check the wound or take my temperature, and asked me when I was leaving. Fucking pronto, said I.

10 days later, after feeling ill for some time, the whole abdominal wound de-hisced, I ended up in hospital again on IV antibiotics, and the subsequent mess took 5 months and 15 courses of antibiotics to heal. I now have a neuroma in the keloid scarring, which can be very painful at times. I am also now unlikely to respond to the usual antibiotics if I get sick, which with COPD is a bit of an issue.

All of this saga is an illustration of how both nursing and medical staff simply do not listen. My GP here is fantastic, and she beleives in the idea of the expert patient - that filters down to the practice nurses who run the chronic illness clinics I attend, and by going to those we can nip problems in the bud and I don't need consultant involvement. My GP only refers to consultants if she and her team can't deal with something themselves or if she needs an opinion for a definitive diagnosis. Same applies to mental health issues, and if you need a talking therapy you usually get an appointment within 6 weeks. This is NHS Wales, mind.

Sue is quite right about this - apart from the pain and distress, unnecessary remedial treatment and care, and sheer emotional trauma of not being believed and having to fight for decent care, the costs are enormous. Even if, as she says, all you care about is money, on that criterion alone this nonsense needs to stop.
Whether you get a doctor who listens or not seems to be a lottery, and even then things can change. I've had great doctors and ones who suffer from occupational deafness.

The last part of your story is horrendous, but oh so believable. I've read and heard so many like it. Many people who have neuro diseases go years without a good diagnosis, getting plenty of the 'panic attack' stuff along the way. Am always at a loss to understand it though, how and why it occurs. It can't just be money, so there must be a culture that props it up. You were lucky to survive your ordeal, sorry you are having to live with the damage still. I've got friends who have nearly died from being ad ministered the wrong anaesthesia, even when carrying written advice about it. It simply isn't taken seriously.

I always felt pretty much an empowered patient till relatively recently.

I've got a secondary, little understood condition. There is a cheap treatment that cost pennies, but people are dismissed when they say it is effective and are laughed at. The science all backs up the patients, and always has done. There's a problem with the tests. An assumption that a common food additive has eradicated it. A misunderstanding regarding how it develops. A misconception that it has one cause. Instead people get diagnosed with a variety of rare diseases with bad outcomes. They don't get better because they are being treated for the wrong disease. The doctors aren't surprised because the rare diseases only have palliative treatments anyway, there are no cures. NICE, NEQAS advisory notes, the Haemo society ( I've forgotten its title)and it's Gastro equivalent, and various other professional expert groups all have urgent concerns because people are becoming seriously ill - at this point the real culprit is sometimes emerging far too late for the damage to be reversed.

The evidence mounts up while they do the medical equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and going 'lalalalala'.

I'm absolutely sure its not the only condition where patients are having to move mountains.

I've been laid low for over a year by the non-listening disease, which is the worst part of any condition.

The only argument I have with Sues article is that men suffer their own version, and the plight of parents who encounter it is probably the worst of all.
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

Dont know if anyone has seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29463217
The government has launched four pilot schemes to help unemployed people with mental health problems find work.

The voluntary scheme will see some people on Employment and Support Allowance being offered employment support and psychiatric help.

The £2m pilots, all in England, will run for six months.
I knew there were plans for such a scheme but not that it was about to launch pilots...
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Green Deal finance firm warns about funding gap
Company providing loans in flagship energy efficiency scheme says state-owned bank has closed off funding channel

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ap-warning
They're considering voluntary liquidation as an option ...

Another coalition 'success'.
Crazy, eh!? Why was future funding not locked in from the start? (I ask, not expecting any response from this government...)
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

Here's a link to an article I spotted after I'd read the article RR2 linked to, above:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014 ... d-mobility
A scientist has created a budget device that can control a computer by tracking eye movement after stumbling on a £9.95 web camera being sold with a games console – a huge saving from the £20,000 that a similar apparatus used for medical research would have cost at the time.

German neuroscientist Dr Aldo Faisal was setting up a laboratory at Imperial College in London when he made the chance discovery.

Faisal and his team reconfigured two of the cameras and fixed them to a harness which attaches to the head, making a £43 device that opens up the use of computers to the 6 million people in the UK with restricted hand movement.
Apparently, they've tried it out with a host of people who were able to use it after only fifteen seconds of calibration. Could be of real benefit, especially to people who couldn't have come anywhere near funding the cost of existing equipment! :clap: :dance: :rock:

(This is a Guardian article which is still showing in the classic view format – at least for me...)
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diGriz
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by diGriz »

Bit of late night catch up, just saw a snippet of Clegg at the conference. Has he dyed his hair?
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

diGriz wrote:Bit of late night catch up, just saw a snippet of Clegg at the conference. Has he dyed his hair?
I thought there was something different-looking about him so you might be right :lol:
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Saturday 4th & Sunday 5th October 2014

Post by LadyCentauria »

Rowson on the LibDem Conference:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conference

V. good :rock:
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