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Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 7:01 am
by refitman
Morning all.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 10:17 am
by gilsey
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 10:22 am
by gilsey
sook

noun

Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, especially a young person; crybaby.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 11:28 am
by AnatolyKasparov
Thinking of anybody in particular?

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 11:46 am
by citizenJA
Good morning, everyone.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:29 pm
by HindleA
The NewStatesman endorses no party.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:31 pm
by HindleA
In all its inglory


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:38 pm
by HindleA
Some convoluted nonsense about suspension until the voters get a better offer,or something.There is no on the one hand or the other when fucking lives are at stake

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:43 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
HindleA wrote:In all its inglory


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its quintessential Cowley.

(that is not a compliment btw)

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:44 pm
by HindleA
If I,or indeed the vast majority ,waited to get exactly what they want..turning up your nose at the food on offer is an act of selfish indulgence which actively ensures others starve.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 2:46 pm
by HindleA
Is he that ignorant of Labours/NS history,especially early as far as his criticisms go-I find that hard to believe.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:00 pm
by HindleA
The "beholden to no party"stuff,as if some kind of bravery when no more than self justification is,to continue the food theme,extremely unpalateable.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:02 pm
by HindleA
Then again,having already voted,I can tell you the courage it took was somewhat immense-what asinine bollox

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:06 pm
by HindleA
Further the fact of revealing it was Labour ,I think I must be in line for at least the George Cross.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:12 pm
by HindleA
There is absolutely nothing more indicative of selfish right-wingery/against all I believe Labourish thinking should be all about to my mind than locally deciding on personal basis and ignoring /at the expense of the overall effect.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:16 pm
by citizenJA
HindleA wrote:Some convoluted nonsense about suspension until the voters get a better offer,or something.There is no on the one hand or the other when fucking lives are at stake
Exactly my first reaction to it too. Choosing the future government of the UK isn't something anyone can close their door on. I see that god damn smirking George Osborne behind every word of this crap. I'm too angry to write more right now.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:17 pm
by HindleA
Forget Labourish-any concept of Society ,given the actual name of the publication and later almagamation with "New Society'Cowley appears to be trolling his own magazine.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:20 pm
by HindleA
The sexist title not withstanding.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:31 pm
by citizenJA
Perhaps, above all, a new politics for the 2020s must cultivate a civic patriotism that is inclusive and generous, rather than sour and resentful, and that reaffirms the value of the common good.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Perhaps you could support civic engagement instead of cultivating sour resentment by lying about the Labour party leader.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:34 pm
by citizenJA
HindleA wrote:If I,or indeed the vast majority ,waited to get exactly what they want..turning up your nose at the food on offer is an act of selfish indulgence which actively ensures others starve.
We'd rather you starve to death because none of this food is appropriate for you to eat. Really, it's not good enough for you.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:35 pm
by HindleA
It is a false distinction/separation ,particularly the fakery of the simplistic State provision squeezing out the family,one interacts with the other.The coalition enacted a double whammy of reducing provision and defacillitating-indeed obscenely falsely portraying family support/caring /disability/illness as lifestyle choice and penalising in targeted fashion eg bedrooms.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:38 pm
by citizenJA
HindleA wrote:There is absolutely nothing more indicative of selfish right-wingery/against all I believe Labourish thinking should be all about to my mind than locally deciding on personal basis and ignoring /at the expense of the overall effect.
The cynicism and irresponsible mendacious convolutions in that article are contemptible

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:38 pm
by HindleA
I think you removed a post,the above was referring to civil society/State interaction.The premise contained in the post was wrong.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:40 pm
by HindleA
The quotation contained,to be clear.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:41 pm
by citizenJA
HindleA wrote:It is a false distinction/separation ,particularly the fakery of the simplistic State provision squeezing out the family,one interacts with the other.The coalition enacted a double whammy of reducing provision and defacillitating-indeed obscenely falsely portraying family support/caring /disability/illness as lifestyle choice and penalising in targeted fashion eg bedrooms.
You're hitting the bulls' eye repeatedly today.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:43 pm
by HindleA
I bravely shrug my shoulders and tut,go me.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:45 pm
by HindleA
Shrug my shoulders with purpose,of course ,which makes all the difference

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:46 pm
by HindleA
And a very loud "tut"

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:46 pm
by citizenJA
HindleA wrote:I think you removed a post,the above was referring to civil society/State interaction.The premise contained in the post was wrong.
I did remove one post. It contained too much profanity. My spittle flecks off-putting. I was responding to this from the article.
The first step is to accept the new paradigm, which is the end of the Blairite/Cameroon version of liberal capitalism. After a decade of austerity, the state is returning to its primary function, which is the provision of security, as the philosopher John Gray has written in these pages. We believe in an interventionist, even moral state; in the efficacy and compensatory functions of the state to protect especially the most vulnerable against the damage inflicted on societies by free markets and globalisation. This should be complemented by the renewal of civil society and the intermediary institutions that lie between the market and the state: family networks, friendly societies, cooperatives and religious and charitable bodies.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:49 pm
by citizenJA
I'm not a girl or young woman any more. The distractions I allowed myself during that time are over too. I'll raise some different kind of hell now. A proper dragon, me.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 3:56 pm
by HindleA
"protect the most vulnerable"-all false prescriptions stem from this phrase.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 4:00 pm
by HindleA
A cloak of convenience

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 4:03 pm
by HindleA
Far from ensuring responsibility and "protection"it let's them off the hook.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 4:08 pm
by HindleA
We are all vulnerable,"othering",eternal debate about most/really/genuine etc is diversion,itself ,to a literal dead end.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 4:49 pm
by HindleA
He does mention a mind to overall consequences to be strictly fair but I find it disingenuous,shall we say

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 5:17 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
I recall that when David Miliband took his ball away quit British politics, Cowley wrote a paean of praise so OTT it verged on the homoerotic.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 5:45 pm
by HindleA
Let's us all of the hook,ie.the State -"most vulnerable"/we compliment ourselves on our occasional beneficence/satisfy our need for judgemental sneering superiority.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 5:50 pm
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... es-aged-70" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... s-obituary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 6:12 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
The summer of 1981, really doesn't seem nearly four decades ago :?

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:13 pm
by HindleA
"Apologies"

There are fundamental differences between taking a"compromised"position as a lesser member of coalition and actively supporting,speaking for ,stepping up to the plate again and again to justify what you supposedly regret having to do,it wasn't even Webb's remit yet he argued stoically and repeatedly in favour of the penalty for the deemed spare rooms when obviously many were not
The apology is fake and contemptible.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:17 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
David@dmk1793
The New Statesman editorial is yet another bizarre instance of centrist intellectuals calling for a fundamental shift in the UK's economic model away from liberal capitalism, while simultaneously rejecting the only political force in the last three decades to have offered one.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:17 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
HindleA wrote:"Apologies"

There are fundamental differences between taking a"compromised"position as a lesser member of coalition and actively supporting,speaking for ,stepping up to the plate again and again to justify what you supposedly regret having to do,it wasn't even Webb's remit yet he argued stoically and repeatedly in favour of the penalty for the deemed spare rooms when obviously many were not
The apology is fake and contemptible.
Quite.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:18 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Its a completely incoherent editorial alright.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 8:19 pm
by HindleA
Contemptible both in terms of the targeted and the general public as if ignorant of the crucial part you regretfully eagerly played,the obscene propaganda,misportrayal,lies and deception that were,no doubt,regretfully ,deployed.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:31 pm
by HindleA
Don't do the grouping/labelling thing,many self-proclaimed/applied centrists will vote Labour,equally about an obsession about Corbyn,given we don't have a Presidential system it is far from intellectual to decide on that basis.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:39 pm
by HindleA
And it is not as if the not Corbyn criticisms are that coherent,personally couldn't give a toss though of course Norris the Belisha beacon was disgracefully disbarred from standing by some arcane rule.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:42 pm
by HindleA
Should have made him a parking-meter and got in touch with Bob for his intro.

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:43 pm
by HindleA
Waddya mean not still culturally relevant-shakes head-off,man

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:44 pm
by HindleA
Groovy

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Posted: Wed 04 Dec, 2019 9:46 pm
by HindleA
Direct free-kick just outside the box

He shoots... PTO