Wednesday 4th December 2019

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 7691
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6173
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by gilsey »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6173
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by gilsey »

sook

noun

Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, especially a young person; crybaby.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Thinking of anybody in particular?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Good morning, everyone.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

The NewStatesman endorses no party.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

In all its inglory


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Some convoluted nonsense about suspension until the voters get a better offer,or something.There is no on the one hand or the other when fucking lives are at stake
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

HindleA wrote:In all its inglory


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its quintessential Cowley.

(that is not a compliment btw)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

If I,or indeed the vast majority ,waited to get exactly what they want..turning up your nose at the food on offer is an act of selfish indulgence which actively ensures others starve.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Is he that ignorant of Labours/NS history,especially early as far as his criticisms go-I find that hard to believe.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

The "beholden to no party"stuff,as if some kind of bravery when no more than self justification is,to continue the food theme,extremely unpalateable.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Then again,having already voted,I can tell you the courage it took was somewhat immense-what asinine bollox
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Further the fact of revealing it was Labour ,I think I must be in line for at least the George Cross.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

There is absolutely nothing more indicative of selfish right-wingery/against all I believe Labourish thinking should be all about to my mind than locally deciding on personal basis and ignoring /at the expense of the overall effect.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:Some convoluted nonsense about suspension until the voters get a better offer,or something.There is no on the one hand or the other when fucking lives are at stake
Exactly my first reaction to it too. Choosing the future government of the UK isn't something anyone can close their door on. I see that god damn smirking George Osborne behind every word of this crap. I'm too angry to write more right now.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Forget Labourish-any concept of Society ,given the actual name of the publication and later almagamation with "New Society'Cowley appears to be trolling his own magazine.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

The sexist title not withstanding.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

Perhaps, above all, a new politics for the 2020s must cultivate a civic patriotism that is inclusive and generous, rather than sour and resentful, and that reaffirms the value of the common good.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ves-better" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Perhaps you could support civic engagement instead of cultivating sour resentment by lying about the Labour party leader.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:If I,or indeed the vast majority ,waited to get exactly what they want..turning up your nose at the food on offer is an act of selfish indulgence which actively ensures others starve.
We'd rather you starve to death because none of this food is appropriate for you to eat. Really, it's not good enough for you.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

It is a false distinction/separation ,particularly the fakery of the simplistic State provision squeezing out the family,one interacts with the other.The coalition enacted a double whammy of reducing provision and defacillitating-indeed obscenely falsely portraying family support/caring /disability/illness as lifestyle choice and penalising in targeted fashion eg bedrooms.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:There is absolutely nothing more indicative of selfish right-wingery/against all I believe Labourish thinking should be all about to my mind than locally deciding on personal basis and ignoring /at the expense of the overall effect.
The cynicism and irresponsible mendacious convolutions in that article are contemptible
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

I think you removed a post,the above was referring to civil society/State interaction.The premise contained in the post was wrong.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

The quotation contained,to be clear.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:It is a false distinction/separation ,particularly the fakery of the simplistic State provision squeezing out the family,one interacts with the other.The coalition enacted a double whammy of reducing provision and defacillitating-indeed obscenely falsely portraying family support/caring /disability/illness as lifestyle choice and penalising in targeted fashion eg bedrooms.
You're hitting the bulls' eye repeatedly today.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

I bravely shrug my shoulders and tut,go me.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Shrug my shoulders with purpose,of course ,which makes all the difference
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

And a very loud "tut"
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:I think you removed a post,the above was referring to civil society/State interaction.The premise contained in the post was wrong.
I did remove one post. It contained too much profanity. My spittle flecks off-putting. I was responding to this from the article.
The first step is to accept the new paradigm, which is the end of the Blairite/Cameroon version of liberal capitalism. After a decade of austerity, the state is returning to its primary function, which is the provision of security, as the philosopher John Gray has written in these pages. We believe in an interventionist, even moral state; in the efficacy and compensatory functions of the state to protect especially the most vulnerable against the damage inflicted on societies by free markets and globalisation. This should be complemented by the renewal of civil society and the intermediary institutions that lie between the market and the state: family networks, friendly societies, cooperatives and religious and charitable bodies.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by citizenJA »

I'm not a girl or young woman any more. The distractions I allowed myself during that time are over too. I'll raise some different kind of hell now. A proper dragon, me.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

"protect the most vulnerable"-all false prescriptions stem from this phrase.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

A cloak of convenience
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Far from ensuring responsibility and "protection"it let's them off the hook.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

We are all vulnerable,"othering",eternal debate about most/really/genuine etc is diversion,itself ,to a literal dead end.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

He does mention a mind to overall consequences to be strictly fair but I find it disingenuous,shall we say
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I recall that when David Miliband took his ball away quit British politics, Cowley wrote a paean of praise so OTT it verged on the homoerotic.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Let's us all of the hook,ie.the State -"most vulnerable"/we compliment ourselves on our occasional beneficence/satisfy our need for judgemental sneering superiority.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... es-aged-70" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... s-obituary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

The summer of 1981, really doesn't seem nearly four decades ago :?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

"Apologies"

There are fundamental differences between taking a"compromised"position as a lesser member of coalition and actively supporting,speaking for ,stepping up to the plate again and again to justify what you supposedly regret having to do,it wasn't even Webb's remit yet he argued stoically and repeatedly in favour of the penalty for the deemed spare rooms when obviously many were not
The apology is fake and contemptible.
PaulfromYorkshire
Site Admin
Posts: 8329
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

David@dmk1793
The New Statesman editorial is yet another bizarre instance of centrist intellectuals calling for a fundamental shift in the UK's economic model away from liberal capitalism, while simultaneously rejecting the only political force in the last three decades to have offered one.
PaulfromYorkshire
Site Admin
Posts: 8329
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:27 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

HindleA wrote:"Apologies"

There are fundamental differences between taking a"compromised"position as a lesser member of coalition and actively supporting,speaking for ,stepping up to the plate again and again to justify what you supposedly regret having to do,it wasn't even Webb's remit yet he argued stoically and repeatedly in favour of the penalty for the deemed spare rooms when obviously many were not
The apology is fake and contemptible.
Quite.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Its a completely incoherent editorial alright.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Contemptible both in terms of the targeted and the general public as if ignorant of the crucial part you regretfully eagerly played,the obscene propaganda,misportrayal,lies and deception that were,no doubt,regretfully ,deployed.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Don't do the grouping/labelling thing,many self-proclaimed/applied centrists will vote Labour,equally about an obsession about Corbyn,given we don't have a Presidential system it is far from intellectual to decide on that basis.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

And it is not as if the not Corbyn criticisms are that coherent,personally couldn't give a toss though of course Norris the Belisha beacon was disgracefully disbarred from standing by some arcane rule.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Should have made him a parking-meter and got in touch with Bob for his intro.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Waddya mean not still culturally relevant-shakes head-off,man
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Groovy
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Wednesday 4th December 2019

Post by HindleA »

Direct free-kick just outside the box

He shoots... PTO
Locked