Saturday 14th & Sunday 15th December 2019

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:Yes. I just checked out the results. I don't understand the choices people make.

I do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:32 pm

I'm listening.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:33 pm

HindleA wrote:it was a fucking disaster.

Yes.
So someone, anyone, go beyond Corbyn being the wrong choice for leader and tell me a viable story of how one of the other candidates could have won an election?

2017 or 2019.

Post by **adam** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:35 pm

Willow904 wrote:snip
Although it was clear PR and Brexit was going to impact Labour heavily in the EU vote, it's the way the campaign was poorly, almost negligently run, that I'm getting at here. Labour no longer felt like the heavy hitting professional force it once was. And this GE their presence locally was the weakest yet. Back in 2010 there were Labour posters up all over the village. No more. Perhaps GEs aren't fought with posters anymore, but whatever they are fought with now Labour sure as hell haven't got enough if it. For all the incredible membership numbers, our local activist base has dwindled, run almost single handedy now by our lovely local Labour councillor who receives as much support as ever in local elections but was unable to rouse that support for Labour in the national vote.

I can't disagree with what you're written (including the snipped bits). We had posters and leaflets and more leaflets and a big ground game everywhere, and although this is a desperately sad thing to crow about, our vote here fell by 5.1% compared to ultra winnable Telford (down 13%) and no hope Ludlow (down 9.2%) all against a national vote share fall of 7.9%. We lost 2500 votes since last time but we have a big team of people very eagre to knock on doors and deliver things. In 2021, sadly, as there are no local elections till then.

Also - for PF - just for a bit more diversity

[youtube]s8GvLKTsTuI[/youtube]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:36 pm

There was no accusation,that is now twice that people have taken umbrage on no basis.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:I suspect that the Labour membership comprise part of the electorate. But thanks for the - er - advice.
Are you saying that I was supposed to vote aswell? Bit late telling me now . . .

15,561,032 million members of the UK electorate didn't vote in this GE

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:37 pm

gilsey wrote:None of us are ok. Precise details may vary.

Indeed, this is a terrible time.

My problem is what is coming next.

Post by **adam** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:38 pm

Those Doncaster results are a good example of how likely it is that if the BP had stood down, even late on in the campaign, Labour's wipe out could have been truly off the scale.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:39 pm

Am still hoping for insight into why we backed the election. Not to whinge, but so I understand.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:40 pm

HindleA wrote:Why exclude on any basis,I thought better of Cja.I have both a trust fund and the title "Supreme Being of both the Known and Unknown World"(among others)

I didn't see the levity in your post the first two times I read it

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:48 pm

I was ‘surprised’ by the sudden shift from moving towards a People’s Vote (which seemed more or less rational) to giving Johnson the GE he clearly wanted, and reintroducing the chance of no deal (which did not).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Am still hoping for insight into why we backed the election. Not to whinge, but so I understand.

The LibDems, the SNP and Labour wouldn't act as one on this issue.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:48 pm

Fuck me you are all friends of mine.

But lets wait a minute.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:49 pm

HindleA wrote:There was no accusation,that is now twice that people have taken umbrage on no basis.

I'm sorry.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:49 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Am still hoping for insight into why we backed the election. Not to whinge, but so I understand.

I don't think Labour was decisive. I've seen 2 entirely different but quite convincing stories blaming variously LDs and the SNP.
AK has pointed out before that Labour couldn't prevent it on their own.

Personally I don't know why an election later would have been better, though.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:52 pm

Obviously Labour needs to rethink, but realistically there are two ways to improve British politics. Either form a workable socially democratic coalition which works strategically together, or campaign to trigger demand for meaningful PR.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:52 pm

Ideally both

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:57 pm

@adam

Thanks! I like Plan B.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:57 pm

gilsey wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Am still hoping for insight into why we backed the election. Not to whinge, but so I understand.
I don't think Labour was decisive. I've seen 2 entirely different but quite convincing stories blaming variously LDs and the SNP.
AK has pointed out before that Labour couldn't prevent it on their own.

Personally I don't know why an election later would have been better, though.

depends on how much later
Dark days, demoralising media coverage, December is a confusing time for a GE, people are less likely to vote

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 10:57 pm

HindleA wrote:There was no accusation,that is now twice that people have taken umbrage on no basis.

Is that aimed at me? My point wasn't aimed at you.
Come on, it's not exactly difficult to find people describing JC as hard left and it annoys me. Your use of the phrase just brought it to my mind at the time, as I was in rant mode.

If I've just misunderstood you again I apologise.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:00 pm

For some reason I have Ryan Paris’ La Dolce Vita in my head.
It’s like my brain is taking the piss.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:02 pm

You all are splendid.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:04 pm

Considering how we are all feeling, I think the discussions on here have been quite constructive and needle free.

(the occasional - now banished - troll aside, of course)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:08 pm

All attempts to would result in arguments about being viable.You can neither prove or disprove what didn't happen."Not whilst that twat is in charge"wasn't a chosen exceptional (or words to that effect)view of previous Labour voters but the norm /reason stated ,not me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:11 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Obviously Labour needs to rethink, but realistically there are two ways to improve British politics. Either form a workable socially democratic coalition which works strategically together, or campaign to trigger demand for meaningful PR.

The socially democratic coalition has possibilities
If people want something other than Tory government, we'll all have to come together voting against them and for the socially democratic coalition

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:12 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:You all are splendid.

I think so too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:14 pm

HindleA wrote:All attempts to would result in arguments about being viable.You can neither prove or disprove what didn't happen."Not whilst that twat is in charge"wasn't a chosen exceptional (or words to that effect)view of previous Labour voters but the norm /reason stated ,not me.

Ah, I understand you.

Post by **adam** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Sky'sGoneOut wrote:You all are splendid.
I think so too.

I'm not.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:15 pm

Part of the non -problem is created by my unusual style and musings being taken as always direct responses and personally applied when merely a splurge of words,stream of thoughts.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:16 pm

That's why I was toying with the idea of not having a leader. An administrative rota of some kind for our socially democratic coalition.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:16 pm

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/12/1 ... c-england/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Strange Death of Social-Democratic England

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:17 pm

You are all bastards with no redeeming features I take as read.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:19 pm

HindleA wrote:Part of the non -problem is created by my unusual style and musings being taken as always direct responses and personally applied when merely a splurge of words,stream of thoughts.

I usually get that. I'm sorry. I'm anxious. That's not an excuse, just an explanation. I'll respond with greater care.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:20 pm

I hereby elect myself as leader of the Labour Party was atrociously ignored ,the peoples'powerr and member democracy bollox is a travesty.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:20 pm

... Mmm gonna dream tonight ...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:20 pm

HindleA wrote:You are all bastards with no redeeming features I take as read.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:21 pm

adam wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Sky'sGoneOut wrote:You all are splendid.
I think so too.
I'm not.

There's always one . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:22 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/12/1 ... c-england/
The Strange Death of Social-Democratic England

Don't tell me the ending

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:23 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:... Mmm gonna dream tonight ...

You're taunting me, aren't you?

Post by **adam** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:... Mmm gonna dream tonight ...
You're taunting me, aren't you?

I wear the cheese ... the cheese does not wear me...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:23 pm

Have we secured our flythenest Continental Lair yet?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:25 pm

HindleA wrote:I hereby elect myself as leader of the Labour Party was atrociously ignored ,the peoples'powerr and member democracy bollox is a travesty.

you're hired

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:27 pm

That Johnson Brexit withdrawal agreement
Northern Ireland still in while the rest of the UK not?
I say we all move to NI
I'm serious
That'll throw a spanner in the works

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:28 pm

Two apologies ,you lot are so easy.
I apologise to myself,might as well make it a hat-trick

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:30 pm

Right. You asked for it -

[youtube]weMrzt6W8V8[/youtube]

Not exactly Plan B . . .

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:33 pm

“High Quality” indeed

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:35 pm

No PTO? It hasn't gone unnoticed that things have been a bit lax in that regard of late. Standards are slippng.

Edited - space

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:36 pm

I view politics as relatively fuck all compared to the personal(I realise possible connections)as far as gauging how I feel/mood goes.Humour or attempted combats/releases stress regardless.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:45 pm

I refer you back to my the exception in being serious post and you all being bastards.At a time of impending death and destruction of everything with a few days you concern yourself about a missed bloody PTO.Have another one,put it bloody there yourself.

PTO.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 15 Dec, 2019 11:46 pm