Monday 6th October 2014

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:54 pm

Another nice bit of "they're the same" there. Clearly Lab's plan is much better than the Tories (if they implement it).

Hard hitting (by today's standards) failing to call out George Osborne bollocks.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:56 pm

Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:So we have two polls, one showing a substantial Labour lead, one showing a small Tory lead.

Where does Smithson get his figures from to conclude LD switchers have flipped?

How likely is it that Cameron's conference has caused left wing lib Dems (many to the left of New a Labour) to suddenly start voting Tory?

Not very.
Ashcroft's poll shows the Greens up by 3%. Some of that is from Labour; most from the liberals.

So one poll, and from a pollster who frankly is all over the place. To me that looks a lot like sampling error.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:59 pm

I believe the swing from LAB to Green.

Poor period by LAB recently. Hope it will at least wake them up.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:00 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:So we have two polls, one showing a substantial Labour lead, one showing a small Tory lead.

Where does Smithson get his figures from to conclude LD switchers have flipped?

How likely is it that Cameron's conference has caused left wing lib Dems (many to the left of New a Labour) to suddenly start voting Tory?

Not very.

Think it's fair to say a lot of commentators between now and May are going to have to try to justify their existence, no slur intended on Smithson, but there are going to be no end of bollocks written, a lot of it to merely get attention, trick is knowing when to know it's a steaming pile of manure, as one who has been known herself to get wound up maybe I should take my own advice on board?!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:06 pm

I think Smithson is probably OK, as you say.

Been around ages, good reputation (though website besieged by morons).

And he doesn't like DFH.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:07 pm

Take it back about Gaby Hinsliff- had nice discussion.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:10 pm

Excellent post from over on OalA, regarding tory economic competence by captainbeefheart:

" "The total mess left by Labour. Labour always bankrupt the Exchequer. They spend more, borrow more and destroy our future by increasing our national debt. Only we Tories can be trusted with the economy."

Oh really?? Lets put this load of bollocks to rest once and for all.

Between the years 2004 and 2008, Labour borrowed a total of £148.8 billion. In 2008/9, the year of the banking crash, Labour borrowed £97.5 billion.

Since being elected in 2010, the Tories have borrowed a staggering £600 billion. George Osborne borrowed more in his first 3 years than Labour borrowed in their entire 13.

This has seen the National debt rise from £0.62 trillion in 2009 to £1.26 trillion in 2014. Labour bankrupted our future? Hmmm.

Between 2004 and 2008, before the banking crisis, the average deficit under Labour was £43 billion. Since 2010, the average Tory deficit has been 3 times this, at £108 billion. And they tell you with a straight face they have slashed the deficit!

Between 2004 and 2009, average growth in GDP was 2.4%. Since 2010, the average growth has been 1.4%. Even if growth reaches 2.5% per year between now and 2018, GDP will be a miserable 11% higher than it was in 2007. To put this in context, between 1996 and 2007 GDP grew by 43%.

But this doesn't paint the whole picture of their incompetence.

In the last two years, 4.8 million different people have claimed Jobseeker’s Allowance. This fact tells you how secure peoples jobs are. If unemployment was counted in the same way as it was in 1970, there would be over 6 million people classed as unemployed. To keep these figures down, the number of sanctioned jobseekers with a reduced entitlement to JSA is now running at around 800,000 per annum. In addition, there are now 4.6 million people self employed , 15% of the total workforce. Self-employed people have on average experienced a 22% fall in real pay since 2008-09, with average earnings of £207 a week according to the ONS.

20% of the population, 13 million people, are now classed as living in poverty, of which over 8 million come from families who are IN WORK. Close to eighty per cent of net job creation since June 2010 has taken place in industries where the average wage is less than £7.95 an hour. In 2004, the median wage was £462 a week. Today, it is £427. In addition, in 10 years, inflation has meant that the cost of living has risen by 34%, so that the average disposable income per household is now almost £1,200 a year lower than it was in 2004. Millions are now on zero hour contracts, working part time or on low pay. 913,138 people used food-banks in 2013/14, compared to 346,992 in 2012/13 and 26,000 in 2008/09. There has been a 74% increase in the number of malnutrition-related hospital admissions since 2009, with public health experts warning that the rise of malnutrition in the UK “has all the signs of a public health emergency.”

All this, in one of the richest countries on earth.

Listening to the Tories this week has been like living in the twilight zone. And yet, we still have people who come on here and try to defend these bastards. You know, the ones telling us that the Tories had to fix Labour's mess, Labour always destroy the economy, Labour always spend other peoples money. And that old favourite 'There is no magic money tree.' Well, guess what? By every one of these standards, the Tories have been an unmitigated disaster.

And its about time people knew the truth."

Someone send him an invite to FTN.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:11 pm

The Director-General of the National Crime Agency wants us to give up our freedoms so that we can all feel safer.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... m-crime-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Getting the kind of reaction you'd expect BTL.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:11 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:So we have two polls, one showing a substantial Labour lead, one showing a small Tory lead.

Where does Smithson get his figures from to conclude LD switchers have flipped?

How likely is it that Cameron's conference has caused left wing lib Dems (many to the left of New a Labour) to suddenly start voting Tory?

Not very.
Ashcroft's poll shows the Greens up by 3%. Some of that is from Labour; most from the liberals.
So one poll, and from a pollster who frankly is all over the place. To me that looks a lot like sampling error.

Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:13 pm

Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Ashcroft's poll shows the Greens up by 3%. Some of that is from Labour; most from the liberals.
So one poll, and from a pollster who frankly is all over the place. To me that looks a lot like sampling error.
Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.

How do you know green support is rising?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:16 pm

Bloody hippies.

Sorry.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:21 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: So one poll, and from a pollster who frankly is all over the place. To me that looks a lot like sampling error.
Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.
How do you know green support is rising?

Membership is up, meetings are well attended, new constituency parties are being established, more funding is coming in, more candidates are standing, more councilors elected; the European elections were not great despite the increase of a seat but the vote was up in Wales and Scotland, down in England and NI. The likelihood is Farage and Bennett will be included in the debates which will be very good for us.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:24 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:Excellent post from over on OalA, regarding tory economic competence by captainbeefheart:

" "The total mess left by Labour. Labour always bankrupt the Exchequer. They spend more, borrow more and destroy our future by increasing our national debt. Only we Tories can be trusted with the economy."

Oh really?? Lets put this load of bollocks to rest once and for all.

Between the years 2004 and 2008, Labour borrowed a total of £148.8 billion. In 2008/9, the year of the banking crash, Labour borrowed £97.5 billion.

Since being elected in 2010, the Tories have borrowed a staggering £600 billion. George Osborne borrowed more in his first 3 years than Labour borrowed in their entire 13.

This has seen the National debt rise from £0.62 trillion in 2009 to £1.26 trillion in 2014. Labour bankrupted our future? Hmmm.

Between 2004 and 2008, before the banking crisis, the average deficit under Labour was £43 billion. Since 2010, the average Tory deficit has been 3 times this, at £108 billion. And they tell you with a straight face they have slashed the deficit!

Between 2004 and 2009, average growth in GDP was 2.4%. Since 2010, the average growth has been 1.4%. Even if growth reaches 2.5% per year between now and 2018, GDP will be a miserable 11% higher than it was in 2007. To put this in context, between 1996 and 2007 GDP grew by 43%.

But this doesn't paint the whole picture of their incompetence.

In the last two years, 4.8 million different people have claimed Jobseeker’s Allowance. This fact tells you how secure peoples jobs are. If unemployment was counted in the same way as it was in 1970, there would be over 6 million people classed as unemployed. To keep these figures down, the number of sanctioned jobseekers with a reduced entitlement to JSA is now running at around 800,000 per annum. In addition, there are now 4.6 million people self employed , 15% of the total workforce. Self-employed people have on average experienced a 22% fall in real pay since 2008-09, with average earnings of £207 a week according to the ONS.

20% of the population, 13 million people, are now classed as living in poverty, of which over 8 million come from families who are IN WORK. Close to eighty per cent of net job creation since June 2010 has taken place in industries where the average wage is less than £7.95 an hour. In 2004, the median wage was £462 a week. Today, it is £427. In addition, in 10 years, inflation has meant that the cost of living has risen by 34%, so that the average disposable income per household is now almost £1,200 a year lower than it was in 2004. Millions are now on zero hour contracts, working part time or on low pay. 913,138 people used food-banks in 2013/14, compared to 346,992 in 2012/13 and 26,000 in 2008/09. There has been a 74% increase in the number of malnutrition-related hospital admissions since 2009, with public health experts warning that the rise of malnutrition in the UK “has all the signs of a public health emergency.”

All this, in one of the richest countries on earth.

Listening to the Tories this week has been like living in the twilight zone. And yet, we still have people who come on here and try to defend these bastards. You know, the ones telling us that the Tories had to fix Labour's mess, Labour always destroy the economy, Labour always spend other peoples money. And that old favourite 'There is no magic money tree.' Well, guess what? By every one of these standards, the Tories have been an unmitigated disaster.

And its about time people knew the truth."

Someone send him an invite to FTN.

"Excellent post from over on OalA" ?
Gizza a link, cant work out where you are....

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:32 pm

Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.
How do you know green support is rising?
Membership is up, meetings are well attended, new constituency parties are being established, more funding is coming in, more candidates are standing, more councilors elected; the European elections were not great despite the increase of a seat but the vote was up in Wales and Scotland, down in England and NI. The likelihood is Farage and Bennett will be included in the debates which will be very good for us.

Good for Lab not to have someone attacking them from the left, I'd have thought.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:33 pm

Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.
How do you know green support is rising?
Membership is up, meetings are well attended, new constituency parties are being established, more funding is coming in, more candidates are standing, more councilors elected; the European elections were not great despite the increase of a seat but the vote was up in Wales and Scotland, down in England and NI. The likelihood is Farage and Bennett will be included in the debates which will be very good for us.

I doubt either will be included, Cameron will make sure of it.

Membership going up is clearly a good thing, and a measurable indication of progress. However the EU elections were at best a mixed bag (true for most parties).

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... -breakdown

And what on earth was the Welsh thing about?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:36 pm

Just think paisley jimjams.... and the answer will "pop out" at you

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ce-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:38 pm

In other news Twin Peaks is finally going to get a sequel.

Expect another ending that is at best open.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... ong-enough

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:44 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In other news Twin Peaks is finally going to get a sequel.

Expect another ending that is at best open.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... ong-enough

A damn fine cherry pie added to my shopping list for tomorrow now!

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:47 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:In other news Twin Peaks is finally going to get a sequel.

Expect another ending that is at best open.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... ong-enough
A damn fine cherry pie added to my shopping list for tomorrow now!

Damn good soundtrack too.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:48 pm

re the debates, I dont think Dave will have much choice in the matter. The Kippers are pushing for it, the press will love it, and I think Milliband will relish the debates, so Empty is between a rock and a hard place. He is not a good debater and the usual bluster and non answer that works in PMQs will be shredded by Ed and Farage. Everyone will gang up on Norbert and patronise NB and whatever Clegg says he will be disbelieved and despised. However the alternative is a two way Milliband/Cameron debate and that will terrify him more. Without an autocue he is lost.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:48 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In other news Twin Peaks is finally going to get a sequel.

Expect another ending that is at best open.

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio ... ong-enough

Yippppppppppeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:55 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -coalition

Good God. I found this mickey taking article about the LibDems in --- wait for it --- The Guardian. Wonders will never cease

Edited to add the link.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -coalition

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 9:55 pm

I followed Natalie Bennett on twitter and she followed me back, now I'm getting new green followers...

(I don't know what mr green actually means, but thought a grinning green man was right for this post - if he is insulting or rude or anything, it's not meant!)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:22 pm

Have skipped back over the poll posts but can't seem to see this one
Did we miss it or have I missed it ? - whatever - am re posting, just because

10:13 am - 6 Oct 2014
LAB moves to 6% lead in today's Populus
LAB 37
CON 31
UKIP 15
LD 8
GRN 3
So no support there for YouGov's CON lead polls

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:26 pm

@AAW

Yes we did do Populus

Twitter is happily pointing out to the Sun that they've released the last two Yougovs by 10 in the evening, but not the new one….

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:34 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@AAW

Yes we did do Populus

Twitter is happily pointing out to the Sun that they've released the last two Yougovs by 10 in the evening, but not the new one….

Thank you

Worth posting again though -

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:59 pm

Not sure what it is or why, but soon as I start to post in the evenings everyone does a runner

I'll leave you to it
Night all

time

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:00 pm

Retweeted by Tory Treasury
Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 39m39 minutes ago
Coming up...Tracey Emin tells @KirstyWark why she'll be voting Tory again in 2015 #newsnight

That got me out of the sitting room super fast.

Post by **adam** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Retweeted by Tory Treasury
Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 39m39 minutes ago
Coming up...Tracey Emin tells @KirstyWark why she'll be voting Tory again in 2015 #newsnight
That got me out of the sitting room super fast.

Can we play Tracey Emin interview Bingo? I'm having

* I'm Rich
* I'm Selfish

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:02 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Not sure what it is or why, but soon as I start to post in the evenings everyone does a runner
I'll leave you to it
Night all time

Night AAW. (I'm sure it's just a coincidence ... we all get those flat times on FTN, honest.)

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:04 pm

My god, I'm watching today's DP & that fucking bastard Ashdown is on, lying through his fucking teeth.

I hope he rots in hell with his words rammed down his throat.

Apologies for the language, perhaps it's partly because tomorrow's yougov is again a very poor one for Labour:

CON 35%, LAB 33%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:05 pm

adam wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Retweeted by Tory Treasury
Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 39m39 minutes ago
Coming up...Tracey Emin tells @KirstyWark why she'll be voting Tory again in 2015 #newsnight
That got me out of the sitting room super fast.
Can we play Tracey Emin interview Bingo? I'm having

* I'm Rich
* I'm Selfish

You missed out.

* Clueless
* Vain
* Seriously over-hyped

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:07 pm

adam wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Retweeted by Tory Treasury
Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 39m39 minutes ago
Coming up...Tracey Emin tells @KirstyWark why she'll be voting Tory again in 2015 #newsnight
That got me out of the sitting room super fast.
Can we play Tracey Emin interview Bingo? I'm having

* I'm Rich
* I'm Selfish

There's probably not much more to say than that.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:09 pm

Ha! got ya - you thought I'd gone...
Well just one last post before bed (this is awwww overload)
Baby Elephant Falls On Its Back At Zürich Zoo, Adult Elephants Rush Over To Help
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 25662.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:14 pm

How UKIP became pawns in a new plan to bring back fox hunting
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2014/10/0 ... x-hunting/

I don't see UKIP as pawns ... the pro views of Farage re fox hunting are pretty well known ... and the picture of him in LOL mood with his hunt mates used with this article is widely known too.

Editing to add: But I do agree with him about how irritating the constant repeats of asking for a donation on every Labour missive is now. The fox hunting petition infuriated me. I don't want issues I care about to be used as constant tin shaking interspersed with repeat PLEASE SHARE and DO SOMETHING FOR US. The tone of this one in particular was all wrong. One request - and not in my face - for each of those is enough.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:16 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Ha! got ya - you thought I'd gone...
Well just one last post before bed (this is awwww overload)
Baby Elephant Falls On Its Back At Zürich Zoo, Adult Elephants Rush Over To Help
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10 ... 25662.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wayyy cool.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:17 pm

Gee, people are surprised when you tell them that the NAO never said the NHS IT wasted anything like £11bn, aren't they?

Post this when you have the chance.

http://www.nao.org.uk/report/review-of- ... n-the-nhs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:23 pm

Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 11m11 minutes ago
You never hear anything about Tracy Emin. Why will the media not cover this woman's work?... @BBCNewsnight

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:28 pm

Yougov poll in.

Tories 35
Lab 33.

Apparently "leadership rumours" round Miliband.

Did he just lose 2 MPs?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:29 pm

Temulkar wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Ashcroft's poll shows the Greens up by 3%. Some of that is from Labour; most from the liberals.
So one poll, and from a pollster who frankly is all over the place. To me that looks a lot like sampling error.
Oh, I have no faith in the polls, but Green support is certainly rising, and some of it is from disillusioned Labour.

I don't doubt it, and locally that's quite true.

The Greens are an interesting party, and I've got a lot of time for them - except locally, where they're beneath contempt for their insane attitude towards the council - and since they've shed the odd Malthusian ideas they once had (as the Ecology party I'd guess) they look an attractive proposition to wandering Labour and FibDem voters. It'll be interesting to see how they develop over the next few years, although power in Brighton hasn't been a poster ad for them.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:30 pm

One of my son's writes small pieces for the newspapers. I said to him,you should do a piece asking where all out doctors have gone as we have such a shortage, he said it's impossible to get articles like this accepted,,nick watt, zoe williams etc are not as nice as people might think and are very right wing.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:31 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:Excellent post from over on OalA, regarding tory economic competence by captainbeefheart:

" "The total mess left by Labour. Labour always bankrupt the Exchequer. They spend more, borrow more and destroy our future by increasing our national debt. Only we Tories can be trusted with the economy."

Oh really?? Lets put this load of bollocks to rest once and for all.

Between the years 2004 and 2008, Labour borrowed a total of £148.8 billion. In 2008/9, the year of the banking crash, Labour borrowed £97.5 billion.

Since being elected in 2010, the Tories have borrowed a staggering £600 billion. George Osborne borrowed more in his first 3 years than Labour borrowed in their entire 13.

This has seen the National debt rise from £0.62 trillion in 2009 to £1.26 trillion in 2014. Labour bankrupted our future? Hmmm.

Between 2004 and 2008, before the banking crisis, the average deficit under Labour was £43 billion. Since 2010, the average Tory deficit has been 3 times this, at £108 billion. And they tell you with a straight face they have slashed the deficit!

Between 2004 and 2009, average growth in GDP was 2.4%. Since 2010, the average growth has been 1.4%. Even if growth reaches 2.5% per year between now and 2018, GDP will be a miserable 11% higher than it was in 2007. To put this in context, between 1996 and 2007 GDP grew by 43%.

But this doesn't paint the whole picture of their incompetence.

In the last two years, 4.8 million different people have claimed Jobseeker’s Allowance. This fact tells you how secure peoples jobs are. If unemployment was counted in the same way as it was in 1970, there would be over 6 million people classed as unemployed. To keep these figures down, the number of sanctioned jobseekers with a reduced entitlement to JSA is now running at around 800,000 per annum. In addition, there are now 4.6 million people self employed , 15% of the total workforce. Self-employed people have on average experienced a 22% fall in real pay since 2008-09, with average earnings of £207 a week according to the ONS.

20% of the population, 13 million people, are now classed as living in poverty, of which over 8 million come from families who are IN WORK. Close to eighty per cent of net job creation since June 2010 has taken place in industries where the average wage is less than £7.95 an hour. In 2004, the median wage was £462 a week. Today, it is £427. In addition, in 10 years, inflation has meant that the cost of living has risen by 34%, so that the average disposable income per household is now almost £1,200 a year lower than it was in 2004. Millions are now on zero hour contracts, working part time or on low pay. 913,138 people used food-banks in 2013/14, compared to 346,992 in 2012/13 and 26,000 in 2008/09. There has been a 74% increase in the number of malnutrition-related hospital admissions since 2009, with public health experts warning that the rise of malnutrition in the UK “has all the signs of a public health emergency.”

All this, in one of the richest countries on earth.

Listening to the Tories this week has been like living in the twilight zone. And yet, we still have people who come on here and try to defend these bastards. You know, the ones telling us that the Tories had to fix Labour's mess, Labour always destroy the economy, Labour always spend other peoples money. And that old favourite 'There is no magic money tree.' Well, guess what? By every one of these standards, the Tories have been an unmitigated disaster.

And its about time people knew the truth."

Someone send him an invite to FTN.
"Excellent post from over on OalA" ?
Gizza a link, cant work out where you are....

Sorry AAW, OalA is my name for CiF on the Graun. It's the acronym for Opinions are like Arseholes, which pretty much sums up CiF.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:33 pm

So has that speech by Cameron where he did those lies about his son and the deficit, a terrible policy on the ECHR, and announced unfunded cuts change things?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:35 pm

Newham mayor says sorry for treatment of E15 housing campaigners
Robin Wales says decision to evict 30 families from Stratford estate was right, but that way they went about it was ‘unacceptable’
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ampaigners

I'm amazed they got even a partial apology from him. That's a sort of victory in itself.

These young women are right - good they have forced Wales and Newham Council to speak out a bit more strongly about the problems - I hope they will actually provide better support in future but that doesn't sort the real problems of residents and local people not being able to afford to live where they have all their connections, ties and, probably, opportunities.

If my memory serves me right ... Carpenters wasn't that run down - I believe it was refurbished not long ago ... and there had been a lot of investment re IT / digital installations and projects linking into local education and other services. It just happens to be in prime central Stratford - target development land.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:37 pm

JustMom wrote:One of my son's writes small pieces for the newspapers. I said to him,you should do a piece asking where all out doctors have gone as we have such a shortage, he said it's impossible to get articles like this accepted,,nick watt, zoe williams etc are not as nice as people might think and are very right wing.

Where does he work? This sounds interesting.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:41 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:So has that speech by Cameron where he did those lies about his son and the deficit, a terrible policy on the ECHR, and announced unfunded cuts change things?

It appears so, for a short while at least.

I don't really expect Cons to retain this poll lead but unless Labour start becoming more vocal, I could see Labours share dropping alarmingly.

I'm becoming very concerned at the long periods of silence from Labour, even accepting they find it bloody hard getting any kind of media coverage so seem to have resorted to Twitter. The narrative around con leads is in itself quite damaging to Labour.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:42 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
JustMom wrote:One of my son's writes small pieces for the newspapers. I said to him,you should do a piece asking where all out doctors have gone as we have such a shortage, he said it's impossible to get articles like this accepted,,nick watt, zoe williams etc are not as nice as people might think and are very right wing.
Where does he work? This sounds interesting.

He's a freelance Ernst,he reckons it's all sound bites now.

51A · Post by **51A** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:45 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:So has that speech by Cameron where he did those lies about his son and the deficit, a terrible policy on the ECHR, and announced unfunded cuts change things?

They do speeches, it's the speech season. I thought the Lib Dems did some great ones about what total shits the tories are. Shame they're bedfellows and let all the nasty tory stuff pass. Not that it would change my vote. I'm lucky enough to be in a safe Labour seat but if I wasn't I might vote Lib Dem if I thought it would keep the tories out. But No. Don't believe them. I never will again. So I'll urge anyone I have an inkling might vote tory to vote UKIP, who have no chance of forming a govt, just to split the vote.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:47 pm

pk1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:So has that speech by Cameron where he did those lies about his son and the deficit, a terrible policy on the ECHR, and announced unfunded cuts change things?
It appears so, for a short while at least.

I don't really expect Cons to retain this poll lead but unless Labour start becoming more vocal, I could see Labours share dropping alarmingly.

I'm becoming very concerned at the long periods of silence from Labour, even accepting they find it bloody hard getting any kind of media coverage so seem to have resorted to Twitter. The narrative around con leads is in itself quite damaging to Labour.

Agree. Rather fed up with the one step forward - immediately followed by one and a half back - as seen recently in the fine attack on Tory policy from Tristram Hunt - blunted / overtaken by Prescott and others who should know better stupid niggling about Ed Miliband - when it should have been built on with a further attack by someone on the ludicrous unfunded far away tax giveaways promised by Osborne and Cameron.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 11:49 pm

JustMom wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
JustMom wrote:One of my son's writes small pieces for the newspapers. I said to him,you should do a piece asking where all out doctors have gone as we have such a shortage, he said it's impossible to get articles like this accepted,,nick watt, zoe williams etc are not as nice as people might think and are very right wing.
Where does he work? This sounds interesting.

He's a freelance Ernst,he reckons it's all sound bites now.

That would be about right for journalism today, as would the judgement that the public schoolboys and schoolgirls who run the Graun are right wing.

I swear, the moment the Graun upped sticks from Manchester, its fate was sealed. It's taken time for them to morph into a Tory propaganda sheet, but they're there now.