Monday 6th October 2014

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:00 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:I notice that the Graun quickly and gleefully had an article on the Tory poll lead within nanoseconds of it appearing. I trust that tomorrow, or later in the week, when the polls revert to a 3-4-5-6 point Labour lead, they will as quickly and as earnestly pen a prominent article on it.

Bound to, being a left wing paper, eh?

I seem to remember that in response to questions about why they weren't writing articles about Labour taking 6-7 point leads the Guardian said that they only produced articles for their own (often hilariously bad) polls. I guess that answer was the dismissive cobblers I've come to expect from them towards us.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:04 pm

The Indy takes a pop at the hypocrisy of The Sun regarding the Human Rights Act, saying they supported abolishing it a few days ago but are now using it to make a complaint to the Met.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 78190.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions Plebgate and look what just popped up on my Twitter feed:

Danny Shaw ‏@DannyShawBBC
High Court says misconduct investigation into 3 police officers arising from #plebgate affair was "lamentable" & rules findings "invalid".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:15 pm

There was a BNP candidate at H&M at the GE, who easily outpolled UKIP.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:16 pm

Spacedone wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:I notice that the Graun quickly and gleefully had an article on the Tory poll lead within nanoseconds of it appearing. I trust that tomorrow, or later in the week, when the polls revert to a 3-4-5-6 point Labour lead, they will as quickly and as earnestly pen a prominent article on it.

Bound to, being a left wing paper, eh?
I seem to remember that in response to questions about why they weren't writing articles about Labour taking 6-7 point leads the Guardian said that they only produced articles for their own (often hilariously bad) polls. I guess that answer was the dismissive cobblers I've come to expect from them towards us.

I think we can take it as read that should the polls favour Labour again tomorrow, then the Graun will blitz its Politics page with lots of articles talking up Clegg, The FibDems, and above all, their favourite, dishy David Cameron. Or perhaps there'll be a tokenistic article on the political importance of eating bacon sandwiches, and how failing to do so shows that Labour isn't to be trusted on the economy. Or something.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:There was a BNP candidate at H&M at the GE, who easily outpolled UKIP.

Unsurprisingly, that was before the meeja decided that Nige was their bezzie mate and that no criticism of UKIP was to be countenanced.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:23 pm

Haven't been checking the papers much. Just from the front pages little on the LibDem Conference and very little on my Twitterfeed.
Definitely reckon Labour is ahead on social media. Loads and loads of local party news, canvassing etc. I would guess they're aiming at the young and that's eminently sensible.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:23 pm

Well, I've just put a deposit down on my first house and signed a load of papers today. Got butterflies. Vendor has been dragging their feet and now want to complete by the 10th.

Nervous.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:27 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:I notice that the Graun quickly and gleefully had an article on the Tory poll lead within nanoseconds of it appearing. I trust that tomorrow, or later in the week, when the polls revert to a 3-4-5-6 point Labour lead, they will as quickly and as earnestly pen a prominent article on it.

Bound to, being a left wing paper, eh?
I seem to remember that in response to questions about why they weren't writing articles about Labour taking 6-7 point leads the Guardian said that they only produced articles for their own (often hilariously bad) polls. I guess that answer was the dismissive cobblers I've come to expect from them towards us.
I think we can take it as read that should the polls favour Labour again tomorrow, then the Graun will blitz its Politics page with lots of articles talking up Clegg, The FibDems, and above all, their favourite, dishy David Cameron. Or perhaps there'll be a tokenistic article on the political importance of eating bacon sandwiches, and how failing to do so shows that Labour isn't to be trusted on the economy. Or something.

It's not just them though. Mike Smithson was speculating (sh*t-stirring) earlier that another bad poll for Labour would mean trouble at mill for Ed Miliband. They're not reporting news but instead they're trying to create it (and I agree with Temukar re: their reference to Obama), trying to shape the political narrative to what they want it to be.

Say what you like about Labour, their policies and their perceived timidity (media perception again) but I've yet to see any evidence that Labour aren't the most united party going into the GE (I exclude UKIP from that because it's difficult for one man parties to be divided). A handful of old Blairites unhappy about being shoved into the wilderness does not make a divided party looking for the first opportunity to stab the leader in the back.

To be honest I think some of them are projecting their fears for their own parties.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Haven't been checking the papers much. Just from the front pages little on the LibDem Conference and very little on my Twitterfeed.
Definitely reckon Labour is ahead on social media. Loads and loads of local party news, canvassing etc. I would guess they're aiming at the young and that's eminently sensible.

Dr Éoin Clarke ‏@LabourEoin 4h4 hours ago

Day 3, it's all kicking off at Lib Dem Conference (@MSterling27) #LdConf
Embedded image permalink

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:29 pm

refitman wrote:Well, I've just put a deposit down on my first house and signed a load of papers today. Got butterflies. Vendor has been dragging their feet and now want to complete by the 10th.

Nervous.

Good luck Dan.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:30 pm

Hold your nerve and go with the flow. It's the only way to survive buying or selling a house.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:33 pm

refitman wrote:Well, I've just put a deposit down on my first house and signed a load of papers today. Got butterflies. Vendor has been dragging their feet and now want to complete by the 10th.

Nervous.

Good luck. I remember that feeling well.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:33 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Hold your nerve and go with the flow. It's the only way to survive buying or selling a house.

I've been completely sanguine up to today. I think it was mainly transferring £10k out of my account, has made it very real.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:35 pm

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 2h 2 hours ago
A week ago LAB had a 15% lead amongst 2010 LD switchers. Today that's 4%. LAB's firewall could be crumbling

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:35 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Hold your nerve and go with the flow. It's the only way to survive buying or selling a house.
I've been completely sanguine up to today. I think it was mainly transferring £10k out of my account, has made it very real.

Congrats on new abode.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:37 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Haven't been checking the papers much. Just from the front pages little on the LibDem Conference and very little on my Twitterfeed.
Definitely reckon Labour is ahead on social media. Loads and loads of local party news, canvassing etc. I would guess they're aiming at the young and that's eminently sensible.

Dr Éoin Clarke ‏@LabourEoin 4h4 hours ago

Day 3, it's all kicking off at Lib Dem Conference (@MSterling27) #LdConf
Embedded image permalink

Is that where PF's gone? To make them not feel so bad?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:50 pm

yahyah wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 2h 2 hours ago
A week ago LAB had a 15% lead amongst 2010 LD switchers. Today that's 4%. LAB's firewall could be crumbling

Has any party leader had to face the unrelenting and universal hate campaign that Miliband's constantly faced since 2010? I wonder how the polls would look if Cameron and Clegg - and Farage, for that matter - faced endless slagging vilification and the closet antisemitism heaped upon Miliband?

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:53 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
yahyah wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 2h 2 hours ago
A week ago LAB had a 15% lead amongst 2010 LD switchers. Today that's 4%. LAB's firewall could be crumbling

Has any party leader had to face the unrelenting and universal hate campaign that Miliband's constantly faced since 2010? I wonder how the polls would look if Cameron and Clegg - and Farage, for that matter - faced endless slagging vilification and the closet antisemitism heaped upon Miliband?

Foot, Heath, Callaghan, Macdonald, Kennedy and Asquith were all destroyed by the press. All good politicians as well except sailor boy.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:54 pm

A blog well worth visiting.

http://jackofkent.com/2014/10/why-have- ... proposals/

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:55 pm

Temulkar wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
yahyah wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 2h 2 hours ago
A week ago LAB had a 15% lead amongst 2010 LD switchers. Today that's 4%. LAB's firewall could be crumbling

Has any party leader had to face the unrelenting and universal hate campaign that Miliband's constantly faced since 2010? I wonder how the polls would look if Cameron and Clegg - and Farage, for that matter - faced endless slagging vilification and the closet antisemitism heaped upon Miliband?
Foot, Heath, Callaghan, Macdonald, Kennedy and Asquith were all destroyed by the press. All good politicians as well except sailor boy.

Bit light on Tories. I wonder what that means?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 6:56 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
yahyah wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 2h 2 hours ago
A week ago LAB had a 15% lead amongst 2010 LD switchers. Today that's 4%. LAB's firewall could be crumbling

Has any party leader had to face the unrelenting and universal hate campaign that Miliband's constantly faced since 2010? I wonder how the polls would look if Cameron and Clegg - and Farage, for that matter - faced endless slagging vilification and the closet antisemitism heaped upon Miliband?

But it's exactly (well not anti-semitism but the rest of it) what they did to Brown. The British press - and of late BBC - HATE Labour and will do anything to convince us not to vote for them. Is it just Oxbridge becoming more frantic in their (subconscious?) fight to maintain the elitist status quo or is there something else?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:10 pm

ohsocynical wrote:A blog well worth visiting.

http://jackofkent.com/2014/10/why-have- ... proposals/

Talking of which...

Toby Young @toadmeister · 4h 4 hours ago
As a Tory, I’m unconvinced by the Bill of Rights. It could easily be altered by a future Labour govt. Better to stick with the devil we know

Good to see some real intellectual thought processes going on there...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:11 pm

Strength and Honor ‏@Avitusparta 60m60 minutes ago
BBC News - NHS and social care 'at breaking point', medics and charities warn http://bbc.in/1s19cUU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a bit late now isn't it.
Just think when FTN was launched we were already warning what would happen.
I also remember a lot of doctors were all for Clinical Commissioning and there was a lot of complacency. I think it's come back to bit them on the ass and normally I'd say serves them right, but it doesn't help the hundreds of thousands of sick people that are going to be affected.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:12 pm

Left wing Guardian journo, Gaby Hinsliff, doing a bit of "they're all as bad as each other" on Twitter.

Saying no party explains how it will "save the NHS". Labour (believe them or not) have said they will exempt from TTIP and integrate health and social care.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:13 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Hold your nerve and go with the flow. It's the only way to survive buying or selling a house.
I've been completely sanguine up to today. I think it was mainly transferring £10k out of my account, has made it very real.

Yes - those big money transfers do make it very real and you take several gulps. But as Ohso so wisely says - go with the flow, it's all you can do. And there's a lovely excitement when you get to actually get the keys and move in.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:15 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote: Has any party leader had to face the unrelenting and universal hate campaign that Miliband's constantly faced since 2010? I wonder how the polls would look if Cameron and Clegg - and Farage, for that matter - faced endless slagging vilification and the closet antisemitism heaped upon Miliband?
Foot, Heath, Callaghan, Macdonald, Kennedy and Asquith were all destroyed by the press. All good politicians as well except sailor boy.
Bit light on Tories. I wonder what that means?

And Kinnock...Not photogenic which is a real drawback. Even then I cared more about the inner person and he'd have been a compassionate PM.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29502817?u ... ign=buffer

I wonder what slant they'll put on this?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:22 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:A blog well worth visiting.

http://jackofkent.com/2014/10/why-have- ... proposals/
Talking of which...

Toby Young @toadmeister · 4h 4 hours ago
As a Tory, I’m unconvinced by the Bill of Rights. It could easily be altered by a future Labour govt. Better to stick with the devil we know

Good to see some real intellectual thought processes going on there...

Has he worked out the same might happen with his school?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:23 pm

ohsocynical wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29502817?u ... ign=buffer

I wonder what slant they'll put on this?

Yes so do I. With some trepidation, I have to admit.

Having heard a Radio 4 'profile' of White Dee the other evening .... which I don't really have words to describe ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:28 pm

Landowners face losing licences even if not convicted of bird of prey poisonings
Gamekeepers warn new rules mean they could lose their jobs if there is a suspicion that raptors have been poisoned on the estates where they work.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... nings.html

This is a Scottish parliament policy.

Of course, it might just make gamekeepers look out for and prevent crimes against birds of prey and other protected wildlife if they think their jobs might depend on it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:30 pm

refitman wrote:Well, I've just put a deposit down on my first house and signed a load of papers today. Got butterflies. Vendor has been dragging their feet and now want to complete by the 10th.

Nervous.

Yay! congrats and enjoy your new home

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:33 pm

Honestly, I don't know where to begin with this, bemused, and mildly amused, Cons, wreckers of the NHS, yes, give you that, but the Kippers as potential savours?

http://markreckless.com/2014/10/06/stro ... -services/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:48 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29502817?u ... ign=buffer

I wonder what slant they'll put on this?
Yes so do I. With some trepidation, I have to admit.

Having heard a Radio 4 'profile' of White Dee the other evening .... which I don't really have words to describe ...

Regardless of the slant of the programme this will be all you see from any kind of commentary on it.

"Not doing enough to find better paid employment."

"Obviously you don't work hard enough."

"You need benefits but I see you have a flat TV (because anyone on benefits should expect to have 1995 technology), a Sky dish and worst of all... children."

"She's not very thin is she? Obviously got loads of money for pizza and booze."

A large number of people have been successfully manipulated into thinking this kind of garbage in response to any attempt to point out reality.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:52 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Honestly, I don't know where to begin with this, bemused, and mildly amused, Cons, wreckers of the NHS, yes, give you that, but the Kippers as potential savours?

http://markreckless.com/2014/10/06/stro ... -services/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He does like talking about himself in the third person doesn't he?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 7:59 pm

Congrats on the house Dan. It's a big, scary think to do, but as long as you're not overstretching yourself (always worth considering what'll happen if the mortgage rate goes up). Enjoy the place, may it bring you peace and happiness.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:03 pm

Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 10m10 minutes ago
Tracey Emin tells #c4news she's not an establishment person, but has become a Tory - video - http://bit.ly/1s1w8SE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why am I not surprised?

Post by **refitman** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 10m10 minutes ago
Tracey Emin tells #c4news she's not an establishment person, but has become a Tory - video - http://bit.ly/1s1w8SE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why am I not surprised?

Become? I thought she always was.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:11 pm

Don't know if people here are familiar with this guy:

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com ... _mumbling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very readable indeed, I think.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:13 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Channel 4 News ‏@Channel4News 10m10 minutes ago
Tracey Emin tells #c4news she's not an establishment person, but has become a Tory - video - http://bit.ly/1s1w8SE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why am I not surprised?

Let's see. No discernible talent - check; gobshite - check; egomaniac - check; supreme self-publicist - check.

She could be the next Louise Mensch.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:16 pm

Transmission break :"Potter's Wheel"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:16 pm

Spacedone wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29502817?u ... ign=buffer

I wonder what slant they'll put on this?
Yes so do I. With some trepidation, I have to admit.

Having heard a Radio 4 'profile' of White Dee the other evening .... which I don't really have words to describe ...
Regardless of the slant of the programme this will be all you see from any kind of commentary on it.

"Not doing enough to find better paid employment."

"Obviously you don't work hard enough."

"You need benefits but I see you have a flat TV (because anyone on benefits should expect to have 1995 technology), a Sky dish and worst of all... children."

"She's not very thin is she? Obviously got loads of money for pizza and booze."

A large number of people have been successfully manipulated into thinking this kind of garbage in response to any attempt to point out reality.

The BBC were tweeting about "handouts" in promoting the programme;just to aid the haters.

#Congratulations to refitman#

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:17 pm

Is this the face of the Tories’ next UKIP defector?

This one ticks all the boxes just like the untalented artist

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/10/i ... k-spencer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:27 pm

@AngryAsWell:

Such a well worn overused phrase, but honestly, rats deserting a sinking ship is spot on.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:33 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Is this the face of the Tories’ next UKIP defector?
This one ticks all the boxes just like the untalented artist

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/10/i ... k-spencer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder what the odds are over at PaddyPower?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:34 pm

Not a good start to Panorama show.

The government don't spend £28bn a year topping up low wages. That's presumably the cost of all tax credits- they go quite far up the income scales, and for lots they're a tax cut. They could easily be increased.

Nice bit of "they're all the same" on the politicians. Two of those have cut the tax credits.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:43 pm

So we have two polls, one showing a substantial Labour lead, one showing a small Tory lead.

Where does Smithson get his figures from to conclude LD switchers have flipped?

How likely is it that Cameron's conference has caused left wing lib Dems (many to the left of New a Labour) to suddenly start voting Tory?

Not very.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:46 pm

Actually programme is OK.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:48 pm

Smithson has posted his link.

It's from the detail in Ashcroft.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:48 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:So we have two polls, one showing a substantial Labour lead, one showing a small Tory lead.

Where does Smithson get his figures from to conclude LD switchers have flipped?

How likely is it that Cameron's conference has caused left wing lib Dems (many to the left of New a Labour) to suddenly start voting Tory?

Not very.

Ashcroft's poll shows the Greens up by 3%. Some of that is from Labour; most from the liberals.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 06 Oct, 2014 8:49 pm

Gee, not £28bn a year again, as if all on low paid workers.