Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

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refitman
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Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Greetings (5)
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Sorry if we did this yesterday evening, but this is terrific and terrifying writing on the meaning of the Australian fires.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... new-normal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

The simple fact is that at their last election, Australia elected climate change deniers to power (with much help from the Murdoch press - sound familiar?)

This is actually one aspect where our ruling right wing party isn't quite as awful as either there or in the US.

Thatcher's lingering influence?
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Lingalongathatch.
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 11 Jan, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Edited my above post for typo.
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Brexit deal: EU may threaten 'to block' City's access to its markets

Croatia’s prime minister, Andrej Plenković, hinted at move to ensure level playing field
(Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-markets
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Extinction Rebellion could sue police over extremist ideology listing

Group threatens action after being named in guide designed to help prevent terrorism (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... t-ideology
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Rumour is that Angela Rayner - way over the threshold for the DL election - is to encourage her remaining would be supporters to nominate Dawn Butler instead.

Good move.
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frog222
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by frog222 »

PorFavor wrote:
Brexit deal: EU may threaten 'to block' City's access to its markets

Croatia’s prime minister, Andrej Plenković, hinted at move to ensure level playing field
(Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ts-markets
I forget if London has 80 or 90% of the derivatives-settlement market, but the total volume is an astronomic hundreds of £trillions

https://www.funds-europe.com/news/brexi ... s-clearing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS forget now exactly how that stuff works, ie most deals are for some long time ahead, and I don't know if it's possible to migrate the clearing .

All long ago ! :-)
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... inally-ill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



A DWP spokesperson said: “We recognise how devastating dealing with a terminal illness can be, and the impact it can have on families. Denial of support for people nearing the end of life is an absolute priority for us.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

Good evening, everyone.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by HindleA »

"devastating"-put in the same box as "vulnerable",the point is of course how to prevent the unnecessary/totally avoidable consequences ,the State is not neutral.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

HindleA wrote:"devastating"-put in the same box as "vulnerable",the point is of course how to prevent the unnecessary/totally avoidable consequences ,the State is not neutral.
Just to say I appreciated your (rather transient) post on your dad the other day.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by HindleA »

Thanks,I am conficted as to the wisdom/appropriateness of posting,plus of course the HindleA habit of deletion.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by HindleA »

Though as better half always said if it was right at the time it was right,I am cursed/blessed with continual "on reflection"
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by HindleA »

ClangerTiny2
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The simple fact is that at their last election, Australia elected climate change deniers to power (with much help from the Murdoch press - sound familiar?)

This is actually one aspect where our ruling right wing party isn't quite as awful as either there or in the US.

Thatcher's lingering influence?
The UK, US and AU currently have governments I fear. Leadership is dysfunctional and stymieing responsible governance.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

People vote for those making things sound easy
Individually, we're vulnerable
Our societies promote individualism
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

It's not your fault but we'll have to work together honestly. There's no other way.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

It's so insulting, the distraction devices used. Royals in headlines bullshit.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

What is a "Sussex Royal"? Is it a type of potato? A breed of pig?
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:What is a "Sussex Royal"? Is it a type of potato? A breed of pig?
yeah, probably
it doesn't matter
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by frog222 »

PorFavor wrote:What is a "Sussex Royal"? Is it a type of potato? A breed of pig?
"" The Sussex is a British breed of dual-purpose chicken, reared both for its meat and for its eggs. Eight colours are recognised for both standard-sized and bantam fowl. A breed association, the Sussex Breed Club, was organised in 1903.""
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

I'm hungry
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refitman
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by refitman »

Good by Clive. I’m liking him more and more.
Clive Lewis MP

@labourlewis
· 5h

When I entered politics I was new to the concept of trans politics. I realise now that views which I received from a friend in 2017 were wrong. I would never quote those views now, and doing so then was a mistake. I wholeheartedly apologise for causing hurt and offence.

Clive Lewis MP

@labourlewis

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Labour Charlie *Dawn Butler On The Ballot* @CharlieXCaine
Replying to @CharlieXCaine @SocialistswithT

Since sending this email, a couple of brilliant cis women allies in Norwich sat Clive down and told him he was being an idiot. He has affirmed his commitment to trans rights. He has since clearly and unambigiously said "trans women are women"
156
3:48 PM - Jan 11, 2020
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

The Northern Ireland assembly has reopened for business almost three years to the day after it and the power-sharing executive in the region collapsed.

At an unprecedented Saturday sitting of the regional parliament, assembly members elected the Democratic Unionist party (DUP) leader, Arlene Foster, as first minister, Sinn Féin’s deputy leader, Michelle O’Neill, as deputy first minister and her colleague Alex Maskey as the chamber’s speaker

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-collapse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I like a lot of what Lewis says and he deserves full credit for the above.

Unfortunately he does also have some very strongly rumoured "baggage" that would surely sink any leadership campaign if it actually came out.
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Keir Starmer slams free market as divisions grow on left

Party should not ‘trash’ the Corbyn years, says Labour leadership favourite
(Observer)
Good.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... our-leader

Edited to add - not "good" that divisions are growing on the left. Or is it? Could be.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Its the Observer, nuff said.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:
Keir Starmer slams free market as divisions grow on left

Party should not ‘trash’ the Corbyn years, says Labour leadership favourite
(Observer)
Good.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... our-leader

Edited to add - not "good" that divisions are growing on the left. Or is it? Could be.
Yes, it's good.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the Observer, nuff said.
Yes, I noticed that too.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

I love you, everyone.
Goodnight.
cJA
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adam
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by adam »

Scottish Labour turn down leader's federal UK strategy
The Guardian revealed on Thursday that Scottish party leader Richard Leonard wanted to produce a detailed proposal for a federal UK as Labour’s alternative to full Scottish independence, and put that to a party conference in May.
A Scottish Labour source said: “Labour would be more willing to consider supporting a second referendum if it was multi-option,” provoking a furious backlash within the party.
During a tense meeting on Saturday, the Scottish executive committee (SEC) rejected Leonard’s proposals and instead voted to hold its own “away day”, in private, to define federalism and draft policy on it.
So the story is actually less straightforward than the headline, which is good. The only way forward for the UK as it currently exists is a much more formally federal future. It's possible that out of the clustersmeg of whenever we actually get around to leaving, part of the next great leap forward could actually be about constitutional reform.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by Willow904 »

refitman wrote:Good by Clive. I’m liking him more and more.
Clive Lewis MP

@labourlewis
· 5h

When I entered politics I was new to the concept of trans politics. I realise now that views which I received from a friend in 2017 were wrong. I would never quote those views now, and doing so then was a mistake. I wholeheartedly apologise for causing hurt and offence.

Clive Lewis MP

@labourlewis

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Labour Charlie *Dawn Butler On The Ballot* @CharlieXCaine
Replying to @CharlieXCaine @SocialistswithT

Since sending this email, a couple of brilliant cis women allies in Norwich sat Clive down and told him he was being an idiot. He has affirmed his commitment to trans rights. He has since clearly and unambigiously said "trans women are women"
156
3:48 PM - Jan 11, 2020
I see nothing to admire about someone who allows themselves to be bullied into denying scientific fact in favour of the gobbledygook of gender stereotypes. If Labour continue to uncritically support gender self-ID and the resultant unravelling of women's sex based rights, they will lose female voters and will be complicit in a big backwards step in women's fight for equality.

No man can say they "feel" like a woman. How can they possibly know what it "feels" like to be a woman? Even women don't know what it "feels" like to be another woman, ffs, it's nonsense. I'm connected to other women through a shared biology. Not by gender stereotypes, not by the wearing of high heels, make up or dresses (I don't wear any of those things).

I have no problem with feminine men who want to wear dresses and I would like to see a society that accepts less masculine men for what they are rather than insist they must be a girl, which is the opposite of progressive and defines being female not by biological fact but by restrictive and artificial societal gender stereotypes.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

<lights blue touchpaper and retires>
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by Willow904 »

There hasn't been any kind of open public debate about gender self-ID and the implications for wider society and women's rights in particular. Such big changes in how we view and order society surely requires some degree of public debate and acceptance. By the time I even became aware of proposals for self-ID the debate around it appeared to be already closed, with all main parties subscribing to a view that has been propagated by powerful global lobbying forces. When compared to the decades long battles of other minorities, such as the gay rights movement, such rapid capture of the political classes is striking. Anyone who questions why current laws aren't adequate, why gender self-ID is necessary and what will be the consequences of such a change in the law for other interested parties such as women and homosexuals are aggressively shut down with accusations of transphobia. Yet not all transgender people are happy with the mainstream trans lobby and fear it's aggressive approach, particular towards women who voice concerns, will hinder, rather than help their acceptance by society.

That Clive Lewis has felt pressured to change his own personally derived opinion and embrace the tagline "transgender women are women" is quite concerning to me. People born with just male sexual organs can't become women and vice versa. They can be feminine men (and women masculine females) and should be protected and feel safe in that choice but they remain the men and women they were born as. To be frank a society that encourages people to physically mutilate themselves to fit some fictional gender stereotype is quite frightening to me. Men who like wearing dresses should be accepted as the feminine, non-masculine men that they are and leave being women to those who were born female.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

It's also worrying, I feel, that there seems to be a move towards encouraging gender-reassignment surgery where it may often be inappropriate and damaging. It's a minefield, and glib asssertions don't help. Anyone.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by PorFavor »

Seems that there's to be no tolerance of sexual ambivalence. You've got to choose one or the other. A retrograde step.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by Willow904 »

PorFavor wrote:It's also worrying, I feel, that there seems to be a move towards encouraging gender-reassignment surgery where it may often be inappropriate and damaging. It's a minefield, and glib asssertions don't help. Anyone.
Apparently a high proportion of children who suffer gender dysphoria grow out of it when they go through puberty. I think, at the very least, physical transition for people suffering gender dysphoria shouldn't start in any form until they are at least 18 and ideally until the brain has finished developing around the mid-twenties. Which I believe was previously the case, with years of therapy before such a big choice was made and in such circumstances transition does seem helpful for a small number of peop!e.

What concerns me is reports of confused teenage girls, who previously showed no sign of gender dysphoria, instead of being supported in discovering they are gay are being told they are really boys and they can change their bodies accordingly. I've read some accounts from such women who have regretted breast surgery and have ended up detransitioning and have been left deeply traumatised by the experience. If there is any possibility such things are happening the only responsible party position is to put proposals for self-ID and any changes to current law and guidelines on hold until all possible impacts and consequences have been thoroughly researched and reported on. I see no reason to rush. Current discrimination laws already protect all minorities, including transgender people.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

It's all tricky.
Not sure that abolishing the HoL is THE most pressing matter. I would see PR and the federation element Adam mentions as being important.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by Willow904 »

tinyclanger2 wrote:It's all tricky.
Not sure that abolishing the HoL is THE most pressing matter. I would see PR and the federation element Adam mentions as being important.
There's a lot of legislating expertise in the Lords which you would need to be careful isn't lost in any constitutional reform. Especially important given the Coalition's austerity cuts to the civil service and current Tory plans for greater proportion of political appointments.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Indeed.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Am not convinced that Labour is ‘getting’ the problem here.
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Which is not so much that ‘Labour’ gets in - or even exists - but more than we need a realistic and sustainable alternative to the current system, where the Tories are continually voted in to make most people’s lives worse. I would start there, personally.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Which is not so much that ‘Labour’ gets in - or even exists - but more than we need a realistic and sustainable alternative to the current system, where the Tories are continually voted in to make most people’s lives worse. I would start there, personally.
Whatever we want from Labour or other parties representing our interests, we'll have to work together to get it.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by citizenJA »

Good evening, everyone.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Quite.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th January 2020

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Yes, the only effective politics against the current strain of right wing populism is likely to be from the bottom up.

Oh, and is it PTO time again?
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