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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 7:07 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 7:56 am 
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Morning All

Off topic but something a bit different. It's the fourth day of the epic Montane Spine Challenge. Runners complete the whole of the 280 mile Pennine Way in one go, obviously in winter conditions and mainly in the dark.

Last year an amazing run saw new mum Jasmine Paris trounce the men and smash the course record. Not quite so fairytale this year, but plucky young Brit Jayson Cavill is steadily gaining ground on the American leader John Kelly. Jayson took some time out earlier in the race for a proper sleep, whereas John has soldiered on with little rest.

https://live.thespinerace.com/#


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:13 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning All

Off topic but something a bit different. It's the fourth day of the epic Montane Spine Challenge. Runners complete the whole of the 280 mile Pennine Way in one go, obviously in winter conditions and mainly in the dark.

Last year an amazing run saw new mum Jasmine Paris trounce the men and smash the course record. Not quite so fairytale this year, but plucky young Brit Jayson Cavill is steadily gaining ground on the American leader John Kelly. Jayson took some time out earlier in the race for a proper sleep, whereas John has soldiered on with little rest.

https://live.thespinerace.com/#

So far I've resisted the temptation to send this to a niece and a daughter !
Their husbands and young children already coexist with Ironmen and marathon activities :-)


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:18 am 
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Good morning.

Some of you will already have seen this, but for those who haven't, it's a good read.

The Center Blows Itself Up: Care and Spite in the ‘Brexit Election’

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:18 am 
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A bit of a bore for all de-activating the Adblocker every time, so here’s a bit of the Indy's Tom Peck on yesterday’s ‘interview’ —

Quote:
” When this moved gently on to the promise to sort out social care “once and for all”, Walker did gently interrupt the prime minister. “You stood outside this building and said there was a plan. Where is that plan?”

A flash of silence. A micro grimace. There had been no overbearing interruptions. No “Can I finish, can I finish?” The prime minister had been allowed to finish, for 20 long minutes by this point. It was a sotto voce defenestration.

That expanding half-second was the kind of thing movie scriptwriters call a “beat”. An immeasurable moment in time, in which the cacophonic whirring of the prime minister’s brain seemed loud enough to down an aeroplane.

Jesus Christ. Even this guy’s found me out. Is there nowhere I can go?

Unfortunately no, there absolutely isn’t. Because he did stand outside No 10 last summer and say he already had a plan for social care. The number of social care plans he claimed to have was, unlike his number of children, not a secret. The number was one.

Except that it wasn’t, was it. The number, of course, is zero.

It was, as ever, all bluster. The smirk briefly died away. “Well, we’re bringing forward a proposal, erm, it’s important to get it right, erm, err.”

Oh well. Nothing anyone can do about it now. This is our fate. We chose it. The last laugh, of course, is going to be on us – for five long years, if not 10. ”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bo ... 83356.html


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 11:05 am 
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https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/so ... e-reforms/


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 11:09 am 
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"Get Social Care done"



I'm probably not the only one,a bit wary,shall we say with Tories "final solution ".As per,my view is viewing people as a problem is the problem.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 11:36 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Good morning.

Some of you will already have seen this, but for those who haven't, it's a good read.

The Center Blows Itself Up: Care and Spite in the ‘Brexit Election’


Some of it is so "on the nose" that it hurts.

Two things - its maybe telling that it takes an American to write something so perceptive, and that apparently Graeber tried to get the piece published in supposedly "left-liberal" British media outlets first - but found no takers. Depressing but not surprising - and I wonder why??

(another plug at this point for the stuff Jeremy Gilbert is currently writing on the OpenDemocracy site - also very good)


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Good morfternoon.

Assuming these reports are accurate, two good points made by Lisa Nandy -

Quote:
Oliver Milne

@OliverMilne

Replying to @OliverMilne

She adds that "internationalism itself is under attack as it has become associated with membership of the global liberal elite" but that Labour's vision has and should be defined by global solidarity.
1:10 PM - Jan 15, 2020


Kate Ferguson

@kateferguson4

Woah - Lisa Nandy comes out against a trade deal with the US. Says Britain should refuse to do a trade deal with any country that hasn’t ratified the Paris climate agreement
1
1:23 PM - Jan 15, 2020

(Politics Live, Guardian)






Edited - tidy up


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 2:05 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 2:14 pm 
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It is good to hear that from Nandy agreed, but it sits rather oddly with some of the other stuff she has said.......


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Q&A with Lisa Nandy -

Quote:
Q: Why did you not mention the green new deal in your speech?

Nandy says she did not use the phrase because “it means absolutely nothing to most of my constituents”.

She says the party needs to find the right language to explain its policies. (Politics Live, Guardian)


So why didn't she?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Especially since important aspects of the GND would be ideally suited to seats such as hers.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 4:46 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning All

Off topic but something a bit different. It's the fourth day of the epic Montane Spine Challenge. Runners complete the whole of the 280 mile Pennine Way in one go, obviously in winter conditions and mainly in the dark.

Last year an amazing run saw new mum Jasmine Paris trounce the men and smash the course record. Not quite so fairytale this year, but plucky young Brit Jayson Cavill is steadily gaining ground on the American leader John Kelly. Jayson took some time out earlier in the race for a proper sleep, whereas John has soldiered on with little rest.

https://live.thespinerace.com/#

So far I've resisted the temptation to send this to a niece and a daughter !
Their husbands and young children already coexist with Ironmen and marathon activities :-)

:-)

In the end it was too much for the plucky young Brit, who pulled out before attempting the Cheviots :-(

So, barring mishaps, John Kelly should have a clear victory.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 4:46 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning All

Off topic but something a bit different. It's the fourth day of the epic Montane Spine Challenge. Runners complete the whole of the 280 mile Pennine Way in one go, obviously in winter conditions and mainly in the dark.

Last year an amazing run saw new mum Jasmine Paris trounce the men and smash the course record. Not quite so fairytale this year, but plucky young Brit Jayson Cavill is steadily gaining ground on the American leader John Kelly. Jayson took some time out earlier in the race for a proper sleep, whereas John has soldiered on with little rest.

https://live.thespinerace.com/#

So far I've resisted the temptation to send this to a niece and a daughter !
Their husbands and young children already coexist with Ironmen and marathon activities :-)

:-)

In the end it was too much for the plucky young Brit, who pulled out before attempting the Cheviots :-(

So, barring mishaps, John Kelly should have a clear victory.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 4:46 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Morning All

Off topic but something a bit different. It's the fourth day of the epic Montane Spine Challenge. Runners complete the whole of the 280 mile Pennine Way in one go, obviously in winter conditions and mainly in the dark.

Last year an amazing run saw new mum Jasmine Paris trounce the men and smash the course record. Not quite so fairytale this year, but plucky young Brit Jayson Cavill is steadily gaining ground on the American leader John Kelly. Jayson took some time out earlier in the race for a proper sleep, whereas John has soldiered on with little rest.

https://live.thespinerace.com/#

So far I've resisted the temptation to send this to a niece and a daughter !
Their husbands and young children already coexist with Ironmen and marathon activities :-)

:-)

In the end it was too much for the plucky young Brit, who pulled out before attempting the Cheviots :-(

So, barring mishaps, John Kelly should have a clear victory.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 4:50 pm 
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I'd never be so foolhardy as to attempt the Cheviots.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 5:11 pm 
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It occurs to me my "barring mishaps" is a bit flippant. This guy has just run and walked almost non-stop for 250 miles along the Pennine Way since Sunday morning and is currently in freezing, dark conditions, on his own on top of the Cheviots!


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 5:12 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
A bit of a bore for all de-activating the Adblocker every time, so here’s a bit of the Indy's Tom Peck on yesterday’s ‘interview’ —

Quote:
” When this moved gently on to the promise to sort out social care “once and for all”, Walker did gently interrupt the prime minister. “You stood outside this building and said there was a plan. Where is that plan?”

A flash of silence. A micro grimace. There had been no overbearing interruptions. No “Can I finish, can I finish?” The prime minister had been allowed to finish, for 20 long minutes by this point. It was a sotto voce defenestration.

That expanding half-second was the kind of thing movie scriptwriters call a “beat”. An immeasurable moment in time, in which the cacophonic whirring of the prime minister’s brain seemed loud enough to down an aeroplane.

Jesus Christ. Even this guy’s found me out. Is there nowhere I can go?

Unfortunately no, there absolutely isn’t. Because he did stand outside No 10 last summer and say he already had a plan for social care. The number of social care plans he claimed to have was, unlike his number of children, not a secret. The number was one.

Except that it wasn’t, was it. The number, of course, is zero.

It was, as ever, all bluster. The smirk briefly died away. “Well, we’re bringing forward a proposal, erm, it’s important to get it right, erm, err.”

Oh well. Nothing anyone can do about it now. This is our fate. We chose it. The last laugh, of course, is going to be on us – for five long years, if not 10. ”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bo ... 83356.html


Is that the same Tom Peck who relentlessly slagged the only viable alternative to Johnson non-stop before the GE?

Asking for a friend ;)


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 6:14 pm 
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I hope that Sky'sGoneOut is feeling ok.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 6:49 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I hope that Sky'sGoneOut is feeling ok.

I do too.
Please sound off, Sky.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 7:38 pm 
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Quote:
Plan to scrap A&E target sparks furious backlash from medics (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/15/plan-to-scrap-ae-target-sparks-furious-backlash-from-medics


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 8:06 pm 
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https://jennymorrisnet.blogspot.com/202 ... y.html?m=1


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 8:21 pm 
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Just to be clear - in the end was it too much for the plucky young Brit?

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LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:02 pm 
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And the answer was of course....

.... bulky Cypriot gnu ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:07 pm 
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Registered voters 2017: 46,843,896
2017 voters: 32,181,757
Turnout: 68.7%
14,662,139 didn't vote

Registered voters 2019: 47,587,254
2019 voters: 32,026,222
Turnout: 67.3%
15,561,032 didn't vote

743,358 more registered voters total 2019
155,535 fewer voters total 2019
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tory voters 2017: 13,636,684
Tory voters 2019: 13,966,451
329,767 more votes 2019
gained 47 seats
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Labour voters 2017: 12,877,918
Labour voters 2019: 10,295,912
2,582,006 fewer votes 2019
lost 59 seats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SNP voters 2017: 977,568
SNP voters 2019: 1,242,380
264,812 more votes 2019
gained 13 seats
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LibDem voters 2017: 2,371,861
LibDem voters 2019: 3,696,419
1,324,558 more votes 2019
lost 1 seat
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tories picked up 329,767 more votes in 2019 than they received in 2017. That's all. Out of a voting total of 32,026,222, that ain't much. Tories gained seats but the total number of people voting for them didn't increase much. Over a million more votes in 2019 for the LibDems resulted in their losing a seat. Jesus. Labour voters either stayed at home, voted LibDem or Green. Only 743,358 more registered voters in 2019 from 2017? That's it? Fewer than a million more registered voters in 2019 from 2017? Didn't vote won in both GEs. Look at the number of votes, party and seat loss or gain. It don't make sense.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:08 pm 
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"Have I got gnus for you"


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:15 pm 
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Great post JA


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:28 pm 
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Nearly 3.7m more Tory than Labour,with respect is more the point,surely?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Or is it?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:34 pm 
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FWIW I don't blame people voting Tory,I blame Labour for not garnering enough votes for themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:37 pm 
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A frustration with me was the pitch of "radical transformation"(certainly in some areas it was more back to square 0)which may have satisfied the fervent but at the expense of frightening the horses.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:43 pm 
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I'm certainly a "radical" in some areas,certainly in my oft repeated call for narrative transformation(s) but it was once the direction of mainstream progressive thought


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:53 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I'd never be so foolhardy as to attempt the Cheviots.


How the hell could anyone run over the Cheviots? I've been up Cheviot a couple of times and it's a nightmare because the slopes are almost entirely bog and sphagnum moss and there are no paths.

Oh wait a quick check and it seems there is now a Pennine Way path, which someone must have put there in the 25 years since I was last up there. When I went with my dad to camp at the top and he forgot to pack any food. Dumbass.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 9:59 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
I hope that Sky'sGoneOut is feeling ok.


I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks.

For some reason having a brain infection seems to have done me little harm.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:10 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Great post JA

Thank you, Paul. After having read elsewhere the repeated claim Labour voters voted Tory in the last GE, I looked again at the results of the election. Tory didn't get many more votes than they did in the 2017 GE. One could be forgiven not knowing that fact because it's not mentioned in news. Labour's vote share plunged - almost 2.6m fewer voters in 2019 than in 2017 but evidence doesn't support the claim those Labour voters turned Tory. I'm not finding a lot of fact-based reporting on the 2019 GE election results in media.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:11 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
I hope that Sky'sGoneOut is feeling ok.


I'm feeling perfectly fine thanks.

For some reason having a brain infection seems to have done me little harm.
Excellent news! Thank you for letting me know.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:25 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
FWIW I don't blame people voting Tory,I blame Labour for not garnering enough votes for themselves.

Tories are demonstrably bad leadership and won't do anything good for most people. Ten years of their governments have messed us up. It was no mistake the Tory party insisted on a December GE and dominating news with lies about Labour. 670 votes changed our constituency from Labour to Tory out of an electorate total of 55,424. Turnout was down and the day miserable. Tories liked that fine.


Last edited by citizenJA on Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:26 pm 
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With respect ,unless I've missed the point,the fundamental one being Labour got hammered and was not seen as a viable Government ,barring clutching at straws I can't see the import given as to exactly how many (there were of course some) transferred from Labour to Tory.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:29 pm 
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If they are demonstrably bad and do no good for most people why did far more people vote for them?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:31 pm 
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Labour shouldn't be relying on timing,the weather and lies are par for the course.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:32 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
With respect ,unless I've missed the point,the fundamental one being Labour got hammered and was not seen as a viable Government ,barring clutching at straws I can't see the import given as to exactly how many (there were of course some) transferred from Labour to Tory.

My post explained the reason I took a look at how many voters Tories managed getting this GE. The news I've read repeatedly claims Labour voters turned Tory. The evidence doesn't support that. I also acknowledged nearly 2.6m people having voted Labour in the 2017 GE didn't do so in 2019. I'm not clutching at straws. I want to know the truth.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:33 pm 
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"change the things you can"


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:36 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Labour shouldn't be relying on timing,the weather and lies are par for the course.
Labour don't rely on weather and lies. Tories do.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Fair enough,FWIW many younger here whose parents/grandparents voted Labour now,would never do.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:39 pm 
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Oh come on.Labour certainly lied,not least in the (mis)representation of the pension changes which in part were enacted by Labour.Perhaps they didn't lie enough.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:39 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
"change the things you can"
Yes, exactly.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:40 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Oh come on.Labour certainly lied,not least in the (mis)representation of the pension changes which in part were enacted by Labour.Perhaps they didn't lie enough.
Labour don't rely on lies and weather to get elected, HindleA. Please read my post.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:41 pm 
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We are not that far apart.The Tory Party are the Tory Party,they will do what they do.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Jan, 2020 10:43 pm 
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I've read it.I have zero problem with using fair or foul means if it means you get elected.I have no interest in pure failure.


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