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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:00 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:36 am 
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Good morfternoon.

I was quite taken with Lisa Nandy after listening to her speech a bit earlier.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:38 am 
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Oh, bollocks. Sky breaking news - Jess Phillips has just endorsed Lisa Nandy. Bad luck, Lisa Nandy.

The Black Spot . . .


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:06 am 
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Interesting thread for those of us who know nowt about it. The 'only' is a bit cheeky mind.


Quote:
Catherine Fletcher
@cath_fletcher
The decision to shut History, Languages and Politics courses at Sunderland isn't (only) local philistinism but a logical consequence of the government decision to remove the quotas on student recruitment from 2015.


https://twitter.com/cath_fletcher/statu ... 6771641344

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:47 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Oh, bollocks. Sky breaking news - Jess Phillips has just endorsed Lisa Nandy. Bad luck, Lisa Nandy.

The Black Spot . . .


Ngl, the juxtaposition of these two posts is amusing.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:51 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Oh, bollocks. Sky breaking news - Jess Phillips has just endorsed Lisa Nandy. Bad luck, Lisa Nandy.

The Black Spot . . .


Ngl, the juxtaposition of these two posts is amusing.


Ha! An outbreak of Black Spots?


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:54 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Interesting thread for those of us who know nowt about it. The 'only' is a bit cheeky mind.


Quote:
Catherine Fletcher
@cath_fletcher
The decision to shut History, Languages and Politics courses at Sunderland isn't (only) local philistinism but a logical consequence of the government decision to remove the quotas on student recruitment from 2015.


https://twitter.com/cath_fletcher/statu ... 6771641344


Can it really call itself a "university", then? Remember what the word actually means, after all.....

(of course, this brings me onto a personal hobby horse that the polys should never have been abolished, mumble mumble)


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Terry Jones has died, a few years after his diagnosis with demetia. Very funny man who stood up to be counted and make his voice heard during the Iraq war.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 1:35 pm 
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Wrote a funny little column in the Guardian back in the 1980s (I think it was actually aimed at teenagers, but very well done)


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 1:42 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Oh, bollocks. Sky breaking news - Jess Phillips has just endorsed Lisa Nandy. Bad luck, Lisa Nandy.

The Black Spot . . .

Ngl, the juxtaposition of these two posts is amusing.

Ha! An outbreak of Black Spots?
oh I hope not
I hate plagues


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 1:43 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Quote:
Nandy confirmed on final ballot for Labour leadership after securing third affiliate nomination

Lisa Nandy will now definitely be on the ballot for the Labour leadership, HuffPost’s Paul Waugh reports. Nandy already had the backing of two unions this morning, the GMB and the NUM, but now a tiny socialist society affiliated to Labour, Chinese for Labour, has backed her. That means that she has the three affiliates she needs, accounting for at least 5% of the affilates vote, to be on the final ballot. (Politics Live, Guardian)




Edited - tidy up


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 2:34 pm 
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Which is a reminder that RLB is (maybe surprisingly) not officially on the ballot yet, that will likely change in the next few days though.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
PMQ's Snap Verdict
Boris Johnson was remarkably bad. It did not matter very much, because his MPs were hugely supportive, and the nation as a whole, like the Commons, is not paying much attention to Jeremy Corbyn at the moment, but under a different Labour leader the prime minister’s glib complacency and lack of attention to detail when supposed to be defending the record of his government could - in fact, should - become a liability.
---
At some point Conservative backbenchers will start to assert their independence. But there is not much evidence of that yet... .
Politics live with Andrew Sparrow

I doubt it. There's no such thing as assertive Tory backbenchers, Mr. Sparrow.
Ian Blackford (SNP MP), speaking about Boris Johnson in the House of Commons 19 June 2019 and Theresa May's response to him.
Quote:
Ian Blackford
"This is a man who is not fit for office. It has been said, “The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort, but where they stand at times of challenge and controversy.” This is a time of challenge, so does the Prime Minister realise that not only is the Member racist, but he is stoking division in communities and has a record of dishonesty?

Does the Prime Minister honestly believe that this man is fit for the office of Prime Minister?"
Quote:
The Prime Minister
[Theresa May]
"The right hon. Gentleman has been leader of the SNP in this Chamber and has asked Prime Minister’s questions for some time, so he might understand that the purpose is to ask the Prime Minister about the actions of the Government. That is what he should be asking us about. I believe that any future Conservative Prime Minister will be better for Scotland than the Scottish nationalist party."


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 6:11 pm 
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https://medium.com/@lisa_nandy/the-futu ... 898ae994cd


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 6:26 pm 
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It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 6:27 pm 
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"We need far less complexity."


Hmm,yes and no dependent on if pertaining to process or necessary and crucial accounting for circumstance in very specific terms.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 6:42 pm 
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"we’re cutting national insurance contributions for everybody, so that will disproportionately benefit, of course, people on lower incomes."


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:05 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?


Um...no!

I tend to get what Ed Miliband is saying.

I barely got 10% of that. Didn't really seem to add up to anything meaningful at all.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:20 pm 
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I know that Tariq Ali won't be everybody's cup of tea (he isn't mine either, really) but he has a piece up on the GE result in the LRB and most of it is pretty easy to agree with. One observation he makes - that there isn't really *that* much difference between Starmer and RLB - will not please the noisy Twitter warriors on both sides in particular, but the more I think about it the more I agree with him (and yes, Nandy too, especially with her recent "turn")


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:27 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?
I miss our Ed Miliband Labour government.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:34 pm 
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https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n02 ... short-cuts


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 7:54 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?


Um...no!

I tend to get what Ed Miliband is saying.

I barely got 10% of that. Didn't really seem to add up to anything meaningful at all.



Oh. I thought it was rather good. That's not to say that I'm a convert to Nandyism - Keir Starmer still seems like the best bet. But as I said here before, there's something about him that I can't get to grips with.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:03 pm 
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Quote:
US drinking water contamination with ‘forever chemicals’ far worse than scientists thought

Highest levels of PFAS in Miami, Philadelphia and New Orleans, report by environmental watchdog finds


Highest standards in the history of the universe . . .



Edited to add link. Bigly omission.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/22/us-drinking-water-contamination-forever-chemicals-pfas


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:12 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?


Um...no!

I tend to get what Ed Miliband is saying.

I barely got 10% of that. Didn't really seem to add up to anything meaningful at all.



Oh. I thought it was rather good. That's not to say that I'm a convert to Nandyism - Keir Starmer still seems like the best bet. But as I said here before, there's something about him that I can't get to grips with.


But arguably that is part of his appeal, if it helps make him more of a unifying figure by appearing to be somewhat different things to different people.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Out out

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:14 pm 
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Nobody talks about young fries of treachery any more

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:18 pm 
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We need radical difference - when people say tax the rich what do they mean by rich and - as i’ve Asked before - what do we, or anyone else mean by working class

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:19 pm 
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Spoiler alert: accusations of class traitorship more or less since birth

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:19 pm 
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Vis a vis: sugar is sweet and so are yous

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:20 pm 
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I can be drawn into discussion but only either in the pub or over a bottle of gin

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:21 pm 
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PS. Suit yourselves

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:23 pm 
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Anyway great to see that we’re back to no functional opposition mode

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Oh yeah and on stand aside Kier Starmer (regardless of my views), Thatcher, by all accounts, was the first Tory woman leader. Right?

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Blame it on the boogie.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:08 pm 
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Being stoically of no class,I am a traitor to all and none at the same time.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Can't claim since birth


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:10 pm 
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Suite yourselves


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:11 pm 
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Surely,under a bottle of gin?


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:12 pm 
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Or attached to a drip of,inPF's case.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:15 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
It's very Ed Miliband, don't you think?


Um...no!

I tend to get what Ed Miliband is saying.

I barely got 10% of that. Didn't really seem to add up to anything meaningful at all.



Oh. I thought it was rather good. That's not to say that I'm a convert to Nandyism - Keir Starmer still seems like the best bet. But as I said here before, there's something about him that I can't get to grips with.


How odd! To me it was just a lot of words that didn't really add up to anything meaningful!

With Starmer, I'm not sure he has the charm to instantly win people over but I'm more confident he has the ability to work with others to achieve real, meaningful results. His leadership ability has been more tested in the real world than any of the others. I just feel Labour really can't afford to take a punt on an untested "up and coming". He and Thornberry are the only ones with enough experience in a high profile shadow cabinet role imo.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:54 pm 
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@Willow904

It's true that Lisa Nandy seems very much a "work in progress" with the finished article still an unknown. However, Keir Starmer is a finished article - and I still don't feel that I know exactly what that comprises of.


Edited - bold!


Last edited by PorFavor on Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 9:59 pm 
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I'm not sure how helpful it would be for Labour to stress the Welfare State to the extent that Nandy's doing in that piece.

Remember Rachel Reeves and 'we're not the party for people on benefits', we don't like that at all but the GE's demonstrated pretty brutally that we're in the minority. See also RLB today

Quote:
One example that I’ll give of how I was crushed in the election campaign was one of my constituents was on a driveway and we were having a chat about whether she was going to vote Labour - her and her husband - and they worked hard, they bought their own home.

And they wanted to have that recognised and they felt that we were a party that was giving handouts and not helping people like them.

And I tried to explain, because I was crushed at that point, because I thought we are the party that’s for you, we’re there to pick you up if you fall on hard times and you lose your job. We want you to do well, we want you to work hard and get paid well and have a decent life, be able to buy your own home, if that’s what you want, be able to go on holiday, and for your children to be given the best possible education so that they can climb whatever ladder they want to, and reach their aspirational goals.

But they didn’t believe we were doing that, despite that being the fundamental principles that drives every single one of us as Labour party members.

IMO Labour should strike a balance on this and treat the welfare state, including the NHS, as fundamentals that the general population should be encouraged to take for granted if they vote Labour.

We might not like it but the poorest people are the least likely to vote.

Labour have good stories to tell, the Green agenda is going to be looking more and more important over the next 5 years and we know there won't be any competition on that front from the tories.

Similarly, there's not much more aspirational than free university education and the tories aren't going to be shooting that fox either.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:08 pm 
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gilsey wrote:

IMO Labour should strike a balance on this and treat the welfare state, including the NHS, as fundamentals that the general population should be encouraged to take for granted if they vote Labour.


Can't disagree with that.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Brexit will undermine Johnson’s plans for poorer regions

Quote:
there are ways to soften the effects of Brexit on these regions, too, although many of them go against Johnson’s instincts.

It is quite hard to see Johnson really doing the things Springford outlines in this article, as opposed to talking about them.

Hope he's right about this though.

Quote:
Of the 54 seats that the Conservatives gained from Labour, 42 have more manufacturing jobs than the average UK constituency, and 22 of those seats have more than twice the national average. While voters in these seats may refuse to believe that Brexit is to blame for the loss of jobs, they will blame the Tories.

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:18 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Brexit will undermine Johnson’s plans for poorer regions
Quote:
there are ways to soften the effects of Brexit on these regions, too, although many of them go against Johnson’s instincts.

It is quite hard to see Johnson really doing the things Springford outlines in this article, as opposed to talking about them.

Hope he's right about this though.
Quote:
Of the 54 seats that the Conservatives gained from Labour, 42 have more manufacturing jobs than the average UK constituency, and 22 of those seats have more than twice the national average. While voters in these seats may refuse to believe that Brexit is to blame for the loss of jobs, they will blame the Tories.
I think he is right about the blame based upon what I've been picking up in our constituency.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jan, 2020 11:18 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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