FlyTheNest

A haven
It is currently Wed 26 Feb, 2020 6:44 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 9:05 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:22 pm
Posts: 3919
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom
Has thanked: 1079 times
Been thanked: 7228 times
Morning all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:41 am 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
It's a new month! Well, Febraury is a new one on me, anyway . . .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:24 am 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Oh - good morfternoon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:56 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:22 pm
Posts: 3919
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom
Has thanked: 1079 times
Been thanked: 7228 times
PorFavor wrote:
It's a new month! Well, Febraury is a new one on me, anyway . . .

Oops :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 1:06 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Quote:
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.

The Observer has learned that the Spanish government has insisted on reference to the Rock in the EU’s opening negotiating position, which will be published in draft form on Monday.

Boris Johnson will be presented with the choice of reaching agreement with the Spaniards about Gibraltar’s future or exposing its citizens to economic peril by pushing it outside any EU-UK trade deal. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 1:29 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 8664
Has thanked: 4990 times
Been thanked: 19376 times
After noon all.

PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.

The Observer has learned that the Spanish government has insisted on reference to the Rock in the EU’s opening negotiating position, which will be published in draft form on Monday.

Boris Johnson will be presented with the choice of reaching agreement with the Spaniards about Gibraltar’s future or exposing its citizens to economic peril by pushing it outside any EU-UK trade deal. (Politics Live, Guardian)


And, lest we forget, Gilbraltar voted overwhelmingly to Remain.

Stick with a UK that ignored your wishes or face financial ruin? Tough decision...

_________________
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 1:35 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
Good afternoon, everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 1:40 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
RogerOThornhill wrote:
After noon all.
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.

The Observer has learned that the Spanish government has insisted on reference to the Rock in the EU’s opening negotiating position, which will be published in draft form on Monday.

Boris Johnson will be presented with the choice of reaching agreement with the Spaniards about Gibraltar’s future or exposing its citizens to economic peril by pushing it outside any EU-UK trade deal. (Politics Live, Guardian)
And, lest we forget, Gilbraltar voted overwhelmingly to Remain.

Stick with a UK that ignored your wishes or face financial ruin? Tough decision...
Is it Gibraltar's choice or Johnson's?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 1:45 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 10457
Has thanked: 1045 times
Been thanked: 20475 times
Went down with food poisoning last night, can't help seeing that as appropriate somehow,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:02 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 8664
Has thanked: 4990 times
Been thanked: 19376 times
Quote:
Joel Hills

Verified account

@ITVJoel
Follow Follow @ITVJoel
More
Just over a year ago ⁦@SteveBarclay⁩ visited Norton Motorcycles. He called it a “great business” that would thrive when UK leaves the EU. Norton went into administration two days ago. CEO claims “uncertainties over Brexit” were a major factor in the company’s failure.


:roll:

_________________
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:11 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
I've read AnatolyKasparov's recommendation by James Butler in the London Review of Books (LRB) about Labour and the general election.
I'll post the link to the article though I think it's subscriber accessed only.
What Happened? James Butler on Labour’s defeat.
I didn't get this from AK or Butler's article but It's my understanding there'll be more analysis of data on the last GE. Is this true? Have I missed it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:11 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Went down with food poisoning last night, can't help seeing that as appropriate somehow,

Good lord, I'm sorry to read that, AK. I hope you're feeling better now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:16 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
@RogerOThornhill
What are Gibraltar's options? Will they get to decide their fate or no?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:16 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 10457
Has thanked: 1045 times
Been thanked: 20475 times
Yes, hopefully I am over the worst now. Nothing but liquids all day tho!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:23 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Below is today's header for the Guardian's Politics Live:

Quote:
Brexit: Britain wakes up to uncertain future after UK leaves EU


I don't think that, in general terms, there's anything uncertain about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 2:23 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm
Posts: 8664
Has thanked: 4990 times
Been thanked: 19376 times
citizenJA wrote:
@RogerOThornhill
What are Gibraltar's options? Will they get to decide their fate or no?


I have no idea, sorry but this from wiki...

Quote:
The sovereignty of Gibraltar is a point of contention in Anglo-Spanish relations because Spain asserts a claim to the territory.[15][12] Gibraltarians rejected proposals for Spanish sovereignty in a 1967 referendum and, in a 2002 referendum, the idea of shared sovereignty was also rejected.


So, Brexit may lead to another referendum. Same result as last time? Maybe not.

_________________
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 3:36 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
Thank you, Roger. I notice an urgency in my questions, here and elsewhere. I want to know what is going on, what's real. I appreciate your help.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 3:41 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 3:56 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
PorFavor wrote:
Below is today's header for the Guardian's Politics Live:

Quote:
Brexit: Britain wakes up to uncertain future after UK leaves EU

I don't think that, in general terms, there's anything uncertain about it.
yeah, out of the EU and in some pretty shit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 4:34 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 10457
Has thanked: 1045 times
Been thanked: 20475 times
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.


Its simply the reality I'm afraid. Even a meaningful campaign to rejoin might be a decade off.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 4:46 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm
Posts: 7903
Has thanked: 8357 times
Been thanked: 12556 times
I didn't get where I am today by accepting the unacceptable.

_________________
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 5:07 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.
Emperor Hirohito Shōwa (裕仁 昭和天皇 ) most sublime surrender ever


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 5:21 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.
Its simply the reality I'm afraid. Even a meaningful campaign to rejoin might be a decade off.
I'd like to know what the authorities responsible for this have planned for people. I'm fucking terrified.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 5:28 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
Quote:
Businesses will be informed of this on Monday, according to the article.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 5:57 pm 
Offline
Chancellor

Joined: Sun 29 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm
Posts: 1916
Has thanked: 5571 times
Been thanked: 2648 times
citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
Businesses will be informed of this on Monday, according to the article.

From the DT ” One trade chief, who spoke on condition of anonymity to preserve his relations, said the UK “might as well put the barbed wire up” if they were determined to press ahead with the plans, given the lack of physical space at UK ports for inspection facilities. ”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 6:02 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
@frog22

Despite appreciating the seriousness of your post, it made me laugh. Is he pickling his relations?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 6:18 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
@AnatolyKasparov

I hope you're feeling better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 6:23 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.


Its simply the reality I'm afraid. Even a meaningful campaign to rejoin might be a decade off.



We'd better get started now, then.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 7:12 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Labour leadership hopefuls Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy have urged the party to accept Brexit and move on, during the first hustings since the UK’s departure from the European Union. (Politics Live, Guardian)


Sorry, I'm not minded to accept the unacceptable.


Brexit has come to be about more than just the EU. The rift revealed by the EU referendum goes way beyond our political and trading relationship with the EU. Yes, this battle has been lost, but the war, between English nationalist social conservatism on the one hand and outward-looking, Eurocentric liberal progressivism on the other, is still raging.

Asking people to "move on" sounds very like asking people to give up. Give up on everything they believe in. Not a good look for a principled party of opposition. Labour's next leader is going to need to choose their words very carefully if they're not to come across as completely defeated by Brexit and everything the Brexit movement is trying to achieve before they've even begun.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 7:15 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Exactly. Very "roll over and accept defeat". I thought Labour was built on, and for, quite the opposite.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 7:21 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 10457
Has thanked: 1045 times
Been thanked: 20475 times
Those things should all be fought for, its just that for now we will have to do it outside the EU.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 7:46 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Those things should all be fought for, its just that for now we will have to do it outside the EU.


Given we're no longer in the EU, that's kind of obvious. Unless you're saying Long Bailey and Nandy think Labour members are all dim-witted morons with less grasp of current affairs than a four year old, the only reason to tell people Brexit is over and they need to move on is because they have no intention of opposing and fighting the anti-immigration, full and complete break from EU institutions favoured by leave voters of the type they think Labour have lost in their northern heartlands and are desperate to win back with appeasement and a shift to more socially conservative values.

As I say, if that's not what they are intending to signal, they're going to need to choose their words far more carefully.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 8:21 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodal ... 7385194496

Quote:
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
One of the major push factors of a Brexit was Margaret Thatcher. She summed it up herself in Bruges in 1988- she thought the EU risked recreating the barriers to the successful free market economy she wanted.

Fundamentally from the late 80s on Europe became a question in Britain of market liberalism vs social democracy. After profound political failure from the late 70s, to some extent Europe became Labour’s answer and salvation.

They could protect elements of social democracy in Britain from any future Tory govt

For elements of the Tory Party, “sovereignty” essentially became a synonym for economic liberalism. Hence the language around “global Britain”, working time directive etc. Thatcher’s successors took her lead- Europe was holding them back from creating the economy they wanted.

Brexit is therefore a huge victory for that bit of the right and a body blow for the left. It represents an opportunity to reimagine Britain’s political economy and shift our whole regulatory model. I don’t think the left have even begun to internalise the enormity of it yet.

Their social democratic safety net, is gone.


The problem with "moving on" is where we're moving to. The fight against Brexit was never a fight against leaving the EU, it was a fight against what the Tories needed us to leave the EU for.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 8:34 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
Something Jeremy Corbyn seemed unable to grasp - stuck, as he is, somewhere in the 1970s. As things stand, we're hostage to the Conservatives and all that that entails.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 9:10 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
Willow904 wrote:
---
The problem with "moving on" is where we're moving to. The fight against Brexit was never a fight against leaving the EU, it was a fight against what the Tories needed us to leave the EU for.
(cJA edit)
Yes. I'm astounded many millions of people didn't help prevent Tories back into government.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:05 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm
Posts: 7903
Has thanked: 8357 times
Been thanked: 12556 times
Brits are astoundingly ignorant politically.

_________________
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:26 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Brits are astoundingly ignorant politically.


Rather hard to argue with that.

Our electoral system doesn't help, though, does it? Largest minority wins all spells misery for the majority in a polarised country. Our system was designed to choose between slightly different views amongst a mostly homogenous upper class, it's not very useful for finding consensus between mutually exclusive ideologies.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:33 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm
Posts: 7903
Has thanked: 8357 times
Been thanked: 12556 times
Totally agree

_________________
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:35 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm
Posts: 7903
Has thanked: 8357 times
Been thanked: 12556 times
Hence, next on the agenda is to trigger burgeoning demand for PR and a much more diverse political landscape. It’s the only good can come out of The Debacle.

_________________
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 10:54 pm 
Offline
Speaker of the House
User avatar

Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 2758
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 5337 times
The issue about moving on, I think, is that having left, having voted to leave, and having just elected Johnson and co, I find it impossible to believe that the country would vote for all that rejoining would all but certainly entail - the Euro, Schengen, no other opt outs,no budget rebates. Obviously things might feel very different if we're looking around deciding who to eat next and whether you can make effective pharmaceuticals from sand, but I think we're out for the very long haul. We might be better off working towards the kind of thing that wouldn't need to go to a referendum, like a much closer trading relationship.

_________________
We told you so


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:01 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am
Posts: 13100
Has thanked: 25195 times
Been thanked: 21642 times
@adam

Quote:
The issue about moving on, I think, is that having left, having voted to leave, and having just elected Johnson and co, I find it impossible to believe that the country would vote for all that rejoining would all but certainly entail - the Euro, Schengen, no other opt outs,no budget rebates. Obviously things might feel very different if we're looking around deciding who to eat next and whether you can make effective pharmaceuticals from sand . . .


Leave it until the year after next then, you reckon?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:22 pm 
Offline
Speaker of the House
User avatar

Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 2758
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 5337 times
Police called in after poster tells residents of flats to speak English ‘Happy Brexit Day’ sign in Norwich block said foreign tongues would not be tolerated.

Quote:
A poster telling residents of a block of flats “we do not tolerate” people speaking languages other than English in the building has been reported to police.
The typewritten poster, bearing the title “Happy Brexit Day”, was reportedly found stuck to fire doors in Winchester Tower in Norwich on Friday morning. The discovery came hours before the UK officially left the European Union at 11pm later that day.
A photo of the poster shared in news reports and on social media revealed that it declared: “We finally have our great country back.”
Addressing Winchester Tower residents, it said the “Queens (sic) English is the spoken tongue here” and suggests that people wanting to speak a language other than English should leave the country.

_________________
We told you so


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:30 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
adam wrote:
The issue about moving on, I think, is that having left, having voted to leave, and having just elected Johnson and co, I find it impossible to believe that the country would vote for all that rejoining would all but certainly entail - the Euro, Schengen, no other opt outs,no budget rebates. Obviously things might feel very different if we're looking around deciding who to eat next and whether you can make effective pharmaceuticals from sand, but I think we're out for the very long haul. We might be better off working towards the kind of thing that wouldn't need to go to a referendum, like a much closer trading relationship.


Accepting we've left the EU and won't rejoin is one thing, and pretty easy to accept as it's an obvious fact, but accepting that fact isn't the same as "moving on". "Moving on" implies finding something positive in it and going forward. Language matters. Facts are facts but "moving on" is more an emotion and Labour risks losing those voters who feel most strongly about remain if they ignore that. Being unhappy we've left the EU and wanting to express that is a valid political position.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:34 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 11:22 am
Posts: 18397
Has thanked: 99235 times
Been thanked: 14562 times
Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:36 pm 
Offline
Speaker of the House
User avatar

Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 2758
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 5337 times
Willow904 wrote:
adam wrote:
The issue about moving on, I think, is that having left, having voted to leave, and having just elected Johnson and co, I find it impossible to believe that the country would vote for all that rejoining would all but certainly entail - the Euro, Schengen, no other opt outs,no budget rebates. Obviously things might feel very different if we're looking around deciding who to eat next and whether you can make effective pharmaceuticals from sand, but I think we're out for the very long haul. We might be better off working towards the kind of thing that wouldn't need to go to a referendum, like a much closer trading relationship.


Accepting we've left the EU and won't rejoin is one thing, and pretty easy to accept as it's an obvious fact, but accepting that fact isn't the same as "moving on". "Moving on" implies finding something positive in it and going forward. Language matters. Facts are facts but "moving on" is more an emotion and Labour risks losing those voters who feel most strongly about remain if they ignore that. Being unhappy we've left the EU and wanting to express that is a valid political position.


Yes, completely agree. I think all of the 'let's pull together' talk is ridiculous bullshit.

_________________
We told you so


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:38 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister

Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:40 pm
Posts: 27184
Location: Three quarters way to hell
Has thanked: 18807 times
Been thanked: 36666 times
Self exploded


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:38 pm 
Offline
Speaker of the House
User avatar

Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 2758
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 5337 times
With a desire to be distracted by very different awful triviality, with 14 games left to play, it is impossible for Arsenal to win the league.

_________________
We told you so


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:41 pm 
Offline
Speaker of the House
User avatar

Joined: Wed 27 Aug, 2014 8:15 pm
Posts: 2758
Has thanked: 223 times
Been thanked: 5337 times
HindleA wrote:
What phrase would you use to replace/express that?.Genuine question,the bemoaned phrase is often used after a death,of course ,as well as other ones on a far more bullshit level-time is a healer etc .It very much depends on interpretation ie.you can't move back and change history.


Moving on? I think one of the big issues behind this is, and is increasingly going to be, (and is something that is already happening and has been for sometime), an attempt by the leave campaign to say 'not our fault'. We certainly shouldn't be moving on from that, from who did what and from what people told us we would achieve. (People = leaders here. Hoi polloi think whatever for any reason and no reason and quite right too. Political leaders are culpable).

_________________
We told you so


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:42 pm 
Offline
Prime Minister
User avatar

Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm
Posts: 6309
Has thanked: 11669 times
Been thanked: 14557 times
Btw I do agree Labour should be championing a soft Brexit. I've been saying that Labour should support a soft Brexit within the single market since the referendum.

This surely would be a "remain" position , though, painted as not really Brexit by the hardliners. I'm not sure this is what Long Bailey and Nandy are indicating they support.

_________________
“Of all the trees we could've hit, we had to get one that hits back.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 01 Feb, 2020 11:44 pm 
Offline
Chancellor

Joined: Sun 29 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm
Posts: 1916
Has thanked: 5571 times
Been thanked: 2648 times
Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Those things should all be fought for, its just that for now we will have to do it outside the EU.


Given we're no longer in the EU, that's kind of obvious. Unless you're saying Long Bailey and Nandy think Labour members are all dim-witted morons with less grasp of current affairs than a four year old, the only reason to tell people Brexit is over and they need to move on is because they have no intention of opposing and fighting the anti-immigration, full and complete break from EU institutions favoured by leave voters of the type they think Labour have lost in their northern heartlands and are desperate to win back with appeasement and a shift to more socially conservative values.

As I say, if that's not what they are intending to signal, they're going to need to choose their words far more carefully.

I was horrified that Starmer, Nandy, and RL-B were all apparently going to treat Brexit (whatever that is!) as a fact of life , a fait accompli !

WHEN we still don't know what (the fuck) it is .

My reaction was and IS to make the Tories own it as far as possible , and certainly NOT to appease the ridiculous historical 'heartlands' and that bloody RED WAIL . (sic!)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 133 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group