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Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:01 am
by refitman
Morning all.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 8:41 am
by HindleA
Re Gilsey's post from last night:


"Labour’s Lilian Greenwood asks about a constituent who starved to death when the DWP stopped his benefits. How many more vulnerable claimants will have to die before the government values their cases?

Johnson says this is a tragic case. He says the DWP has allocated millions of pounds to improve the way it handles these vulnerable cases."

Putting millions of pounds into increasing people's actual benefits would be out of the question. :fire:


See my previous ad infinitum about the use of "vulnerable"

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 8:51 am
by RogerOThornhill
Morning all.

We were told many years ago by our Company Secretary, "Don't put anything on an email that you wouldn't want to see on the front page of the FT tomorrow morning"...or in this case the BBC.

Boris Johnson's father spoke to Chinese ambassador about coronavirus

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51394044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shortly after the meeting, the PM's father used his personal email address to share an account of the discussion with the environment minister Lord Goldsmith and other UK officials.

He wrote: "Re the outbreak of coronavirus, Mr Liu obviously was concerned that there had not yet - so he asserted - been direct contact between the PM and Chinese head of state or government in terms of a personal message or telephone call."


Stanley Johnson also revealed he had raised the possibility of his son visiting China in October to attend an international conference on biodiversity, COP15, which will be held in Kunming.

Lord Goldsmith wrote a reply from his personal email address saying: "Thank you so much Stanley. That is extremely useful."

No one in the exchange appeared to have noticed the BBC was copied in until it was raised with them.
That last bit is amazing - how can you accidentally copy in the BBC?

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 9:02 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/f ... s-aged-103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmbl ... w-handsome" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 9:44 am
by HindleA
Oh go on then, "I'm Spartacus"

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 9:59 am
by gilsey
'I've died aged 103' is the meme apparently.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 10:29 am
by AnatolyKasparov
Well, there is also "RIP Natalie Wood". Hmmm......

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 11:34 am
by PorFavor
Good morfternoon.
Labour picks Liam Byrne as its candidate for West Midlands mayor
(Politics Live, Guardian)


cc BBC

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:26 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Rather him than Salma Yaqoob tbh. Though given the GE results there, he will have his work cut out to win.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:28 pm
by RogerOThornhill
Excellent news.

Liverpool Council will not fly flag to mark Prince Andrew's birthday

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... g-17698825
Mayor Joe Anderson has made it clear that Liverpool Council will not be flying the Union Jack flag to mark the birthday of Prince Andrew.

The city leader was responding to reports that councils around the country have been ordered to fly the flag from town hall buildings on February 19 to mark the Duke of York's 60th birthday.

Councils have received an email from government telling them to mark the occasion - despite the Queen cancelling the formal celebration for her son's birthday following his disastrous Newsnight appearance.
I would have though that they'd want to keep quiet about said person right now...

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:30 pm
by RogerOThornhill
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Rather him than Salma Yaqoob tbh. Though given the GE results there, he will have his work cut out to win.
Depends whether you think that the GE was all about "getting Brexit done" or really was a seismic shift in opinion.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:51 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Some parts of the area have likely genuinely moved to the right on a long term basis (though to some extent shifts in Birmingham counter that)

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:54 pm
by RogerOThornhill
The decision to go for Byrne rather than Yaqoob must be hugely disappointing to the people who like to jeer at anyone remotely linked to Corbyn or associated with him.

With Byrne all I think they have is *that* letter.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 12:58 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Some of us might have preferred Pete Lowe to either, tbf ;)

(btw Yaqoob came third, not what quite a few had been predicting)

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 1:08 pm
by refitman
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

We were told many years ago by our Company Secretary, "Don't put anything on an email that you wouldn't want to see on the front page of the FT tomorrow morning"...or in this case the BBC.

Boris Johnson's father spoke to Chinese ambassador about coronavirus

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51394044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shortly after the meeting, the PM's father used his personal email address to share an account of the discussion with the environment minister Lord Goldsmith and other UK officials.

He wrote: "Re the outbreak of coronavirus, Mr Liu obviously was concerned that there had not yet - so he asserted - been direct contact between the PM and Chinese head of state or government in terms of a personal message or telephone call."


Stanley Johnson also revealed he had raised the possibility of his son visiting China in October to attend an international conference on biodiversity, COP15, which will be held in Kunming.

Lord Goldsmith wrote a reply from his personal email address saying: "Thank you so much Stanley. That is extremely useful."

No one in the exchange appeared to have noticed the BBC was copied in until it was raised with them.
That last bit is amazing - how can you accidentally copy in the BBC?
Apparently the BBC person has the same name as who it was intended for.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 1:25 pm
by frog222
Spending on bus services :
London £75 per head
South Yorkshire £5
WATO just now !

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 2:11 pm
by HindleA
https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/ ... uary-2020/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 2:13 pm
by HindleA
To be blunt,you can't have it both ways,in denying evidential links to increased debt,homelessness and death.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 3:01 pm
by frog222
Response on Statement on Universal Credit (PMQs, 22 January 2020)
Dear Ms Greenwood,

Thank you for your letter of 24 January about the Prime Minister’s remarks regarding Universal Credit during Prime Minister’s Questions on 22 January. You asked the UK Statistics Authority to investigate the claim that “Universal Credit has in fact succeeded in getting 200,000 people into jobs”.

As you say, the 200,000 figure represents the Department for Work and Pensions’ estimate of the predicted impact on employment once Universal Credit is fully rolled out rather than the effect so far.

I am copying this letter to the Prime Minister.

Yours sincerely,

Sir David Norgrove
So, UC began in 2013, what is the date used for it being fully rolled out, and I suppose the 200,000 is an annual figure ... and then what is meant by 'work' ... how MANY hours per month ?

PS The Johnson plays so fast and loose with figures, perhaps he was giving the impression that it's the total so far, over 7 years or so ? 30k per annum

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 4:02 pm
by HindleA
Shall we say the "prediction"is somewhat contested.Fully rolled out is now 2024 at the earliest.The basis was that via a vis legacy it would "make work pay" and the much heralded "taper"rather than cliff edge;even this was disingenuous bollox barring the simplest of cases and ignoring outwith eg.council tax,with the marginal rates of reduction not much different than previous just at differing hours of work and that is before the cuts etc.Furthermore,as I say above if you are claiming causation (debt/increased debt on application is hardly conducive to getting employment) you cannot disclaim (?)the hardship.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 4:16 pm
by HindleA
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ors-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 4:29 pm
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... -live-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 4:32 pm
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/f ... d-makeover" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 4:36 pm
by PorFavor
Tory MP reprimanded but not suspended for speaking at event with far-right figures

The Conservative MP Daniel Kawczynski, who was widely-condemned for speaking alongside far-right politicians at a conference, has been reprimanded by the party but has avoided a suspension, the Press Association reports. Kawczynski defied critics to speak at an event in Rome as part of a line-up that included Hungary’s prime minister Viktor Orban and Italy’s Matteo Salvini. The MP was condemned by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Muslim Council of Britain. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 5:05 pm
by citizenJA
Good afternoon, everyone.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 6:08 pm
by Willow904
A key ally of Jeremy Corbyn has said failing to elect Rebecca Long-Bailey to be the Labour party’s next leader risks turning the clock back to 2015 and the leadership of Ed Miliband.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... lls-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I liked the leadership of Ed Miliband, so this argument kind of puts me off Long Bailey.

And my husband is a very committed atheist, so the practising Catholic thing has put him off her too.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 6:13 pm
by HindleA
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... n-51390331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 6:25 pm
by HindleA
DWP not appealing re last week's ruling,but further cases pendi g re level of recompense


https://amp.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 6:49 pm
by PorFavor
BBC Question time is on tonight.

The panellists are billed as:

Robert Buckland;
Stella Creasy;
Ed Davey;
and Rachel Shabi.

Rachel Shabi is usually rather good.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:16 pm
by HindleA
https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/jrf-respon ... ish-budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:24 pm
by HindleA
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:28 pm
by HindleA
"The values of Catholism are the inherent values.of the Labour Party and the inherent values of Socialism"

J.McDonnell

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:32 pm
by citizenJA
“Scotland’s lower levels of child poverty compared with the rest of the UK are due to lower housing costs. If this advantage is to be maintained then the affordable homes programme needs to be continued beyond 2021. Now is the time to commit to further investment in secure, affordable homes for those facing rising rents and stuck in temporary accommodation."
Yes, agreed.
Our local council sent an e-mail containing the news Stoke's house prices were among the fastest rising in the nation.
They wanted recipients of the message to be happy about it.
"It means we're growing!"
There was no mention of the area's earnings in the e-mail.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:43 pm
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... lisa-nandy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:45 pm
by frog222
PorFavor wrote:BBC Question time is on tonight.

The panellists are billed as:

Robert Buckland;
Stella Creasy;
Ed Davey;
and Rachel Shabi.

Rachel Shabi is usually rather good.
I hope our QT Correspondent is back in action , as those without TV or sufficient courage to watch the shitshow, rely on his pretty objective opinions , AND that devotion to duty .

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 7:46 pm
by frog222
Elementary and blindingly obvious , well it fucking should be ?

From the Spectator's 'Highlights' of the week --

"" Prison seldom turns crooks into saints, but years of chronic underfunding and basic neglect have created a new problem: British prisons are now a finishing school for extremists. Ian Acheson, a former prison governor, and Rory Stewart, a former prisons minister, both write about how they were shocked – but not surprised – by the Streatham attack. What we call jihad is often insanity, says Rod Liddle, and ought to be treated as such rather than lumping knife-wielding maniacs together with blameless Muslims. ""

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 9:09 pm
by PorFavor
As much as I can't stand Rod Liddle, I confess to that thought having crossed my mind more than once.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 9:15 pm
by PorFavor
HindleA wrote:"The values of Catholism are the inherent values.of the Labour Party and the inherent values of Socialism"

J.McDonnell
Yes - I read that. I knew that he's a Catholic, and therefore of a religious bent, but he doesn't usually come out with stuff quite like that . . .

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 10:19 pm
by adam
frog222 wrote:snip ... and then what is meant by 'work' ... how MANY hours per month ?
I believe for the purposes of these kinds of figures 'work' is now defined as one hour a week. And that anyone claiming to be self employed is automatically taken to be in work under that definition.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 10:20 pm
by adam
PorFavor wrote:
Tory MP reprimanded but not suspended for speaking at event with far-right figures

The Conservative MP Daniel Kawczynski, who was widely-condemned for speaking alongside far-right politicians at a conference, has been reprimanded by the party but has avoided a suspension, the Press Association reports. Kawczynski defied critics to speak at an event in Rome as part of a line-up that included Hungary’s prime minister Viktor Orban and Italy’s Matteo Salvini. The MP was condemned by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Muslim Council of Britain. (Politics Live, Guardian)
That's my MP :) It's worth mentioning that he was clearly told before the meeting that he was causing problems by going, including being formally written to about it by the tory chair of the commons all party group on anti-semitism.

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 10:26 pm
by citizenJA
Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 11:20 pm
by tinyclanger2
HindleA wrote:"The values of Catholism are the inherent values.of the Labour Party and the inherent values of Socialism"

J.McDonnell
No they are not

Re: Thursday 6th February 2020

Posted: Thu 06 Feb, 2020 11:25 pm
by PorFavor
tinyclanger2 wrote:
HindleA wrote:"The values of Catholism are the inherent values.of the Labour Party and the inherent values of Socialism"

J.McDonnell
No they are not
Well, there's that as well, of course.

Have you taken a break from communing with the Pet Shop Boys?