FlyTheNest

Morning all.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ism-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"If you largely speak of your constituents as victims then you disempower them."

Oh er,a name from the past-Stephen Dolan,appears to be browsing-hello.

Morning all

I don't necessarily agree with Moore,but definitely a danger.Also if you don't view yourself as a victim/ don't view the causation in similar terms and/or think Labour will "save"you (even ignoring the often patronisation inherent in the exposition of much of the narrative it can either fall on deaf ears or positively turn against.I understand the "attempt"to garner support and granted the "positivity" was "another way" and as to how to lessen those possible effects,it isn't easy.

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ism-labour


"If you largely speak of your constituents as victims then you disempower them."

But the point is that the Tory "optimism" is largely forced and fake, and over time that will become obvious enough.

And a similar "can do" spirit worked for Blair, for a while. Until it didn't. And tbf to him the 90s was a genuine "boom" period, unlike now.

A lot of the optimism of the early Blair years came from the slightly more rational circumstance of a change of government after 17 years.

More of the same with the economic shock of Brexit thrown in is, on the other hand, a slightly less obvious thing to be optimistic about.

"Forced and fake" is a good way to describe it and I'm going to take a punt and suggest any sense of a Brexit dividend will crumble sooner rather than later. Remember all those jobs that were predicted would be lost because of Brexit? I'm starting to hear people saying they are being made redundant and I suspect it's just the beginning.

With respect,a turning point/realisation has been a recurrent theme;even if there is it is far from certain that people will turn to Labour,at least in the numbers required.I also don't think the tactic of equalising past Labour Government's as basically Tory and thus rewriting/ignoring history as to the many positive things (and consequent well-being etc) they did,is any way helpful

Europe was supposed to finish the Tories,it has as yet,emboldened them.

At its absolute minimum, politics is about expressing your views about how society should be. You hold those views both because you believe they are right in themselves, and (of course, this is one reason for that) because you think they will benefit the most people.

You don't have to hold to the "no compromise with the electorate" mindset to want Labour offering something meaningfully different to the Tories.

Andy Beckett has another of his Graun pieces up, this time about how at least some centrists are - finally! - starting to adjust to the new realities. In actual fact I think the McGovern/Kendall piece he mentions was still a bit vacuous in proposing any solutions to the problems they identified, but that they are recognising those problems is at least a start. One thing the last GE did was consign the unrepentant uncompromising "everything that has happened since 2008 is just insane and bad" brand of centrism - personified by the likes of Leslie, Swinson and Umunna - to the well deserved and overdue dustbin. Even if Davey wins the LibDem leadership, change is likely there just as it is with Labour post-Corbyn.

I don't disagree but FWIW I didn't see much of a recognition that-particularly in my areas of interest-at least at the forefront-that they were very good reasons as to why things needed to change/a sort of mythical past reconstruction .You don't have to fully accept the changes to acknowledge why they occurred.

Eg State/local authority as provider in lieu of private can equally be non-independence enhancing/restrictive IE.exhibit the same characteristics as private provision which will not be removed by money alone.

Rosena Allin-Khan has made the Labour deputy leadership ballot.

The only hopeful in either contest still (some way) short is Thornberry, she has picked up a few CLP noms in the last 24 hours but its a race against time now.

HindleA wrote:With respect,a turning point/realisation has been a recurrent theme;even if there is it is far from certain that people will turn to Labour,at least in the numbers required.I also don't think the tactic of equalising past Labour Government's as basically Tory and thus rewriting/ignoring history as to the many positive things (and consequent well-being etc) they did,is any way helpful

I'm not really expecting any kind of "realisation" among those who support Brexit. I'm just saying that the reality of people's experience is strangely at odds with the mood the government is trying to promote. The Brexit supporters filmed at their celebrations on 31st January seemed quite dour compared to the enthusiasm recorded among Labour supporters in 1997.

Just to clarify my waffling post was in response to AK.

Jeremy Corbyn's own CLP of Islington North has just nominated Keir Starmer for leader.

Good afternoon, everyone.

If I can be allowed to make an observation, I think many of RLB's supporters are spending too little time positively promoting their candidate (and she has had some quite persuasive appearances recently) and rather too much trying to scare people with frankly unlikely stories about the horrors that would supposedly follow a Starmer win.

(for instance one prominent Corbynite basically said on Twitter recently "vote Starmer, get Iowa" - which is frankly ridiculous)

For me RLB appears to be essentially uninterested in small business support (or, perhaps more to the point, uninterested in supporting small businesses).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... eport-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour's canvassing strategy had 'major deficiencies', leaked report says
Opportunity to increase vote share in marginals was missed due to ineffective grassroots operation, analysis shows

Echoes some of what has been said here. Local efforts were patchy and not well supported centrally. With the implications this has for local elections, it's something that needs to be addressed quickly.

tinyclanger2 wrote:For me RLB appears to be essentially uninterested in small business support (or, perhaps more to the point, uninterested in supporting small businesses).

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/l ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Labour leadership: Long-Bailey promises policy partnership with disabled people


Personal budget/direct payment receivers can be employers in effect small business as. can those they employ.An interesting multi layered non binary ie boss/worker State/private Question is as to the priority/how to negotiate where the needs of the receiver collide ?

How do you ensure the needs of the organisation don't equally restrict have pernicious effects,regardless of private or State provided.Sometimes the boss/worker relationship meet in mutual beneficial terms ,sometimes they clearly don't.It's where the "class war"stuff is not useful or even relevant.

You can be a worker and boss.

Oppressed and oppresser

Exploited and exploiter

The downtrodden and moustache twiddling cad.

Moreover, not all bosses - nor indeed business owners - are oppressors.

Indeed and workers can equally oppress/exploit /be shits /take the proverbial.As I've said before ye old DHSS was supportive to my better half during her health problems ,it was the supposed saintly fellow workers that caused her grief.

In the real World people don't conform neatly according to a scripted ideology.

"Moreover"

Getting windy here.......

For frog


https://fullfact.org/economy/boris-john ... al-credit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Has any team gone from top of the table at the start of the year and ended up relegated,just asking.It will be an achievement of sorts.

Revealed: how drugs giants can access your health records

Experts say information sold on by Department of Health and Social Care can be traced back to individual medical records

Asked if it was right to say that the patient data was anonymous, as claimed, Professor Eerke Boiten, director of the Cyber Technology Institute at De Montfort University in Leicester, said: “The answer is no, it is not anonymous.

“If it is rich medical data about individuals then the richer that data is, the easier it is for people who are experts to reconstruct it and re-identify individuals.”

Boiten believes more thought should be given to controlling and limiting the sale of data to prevent it potentially being sold on by the initial purchaser to companies with huge information stores and global reach. “If Google, for instance, were to use this data and end up finding a cure for cancer, and then sold the cure back to the NHS for huge sums of money, then I think we could say we had missed a trick,” he said. (Observer)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... tient-data

Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA

HindleA wrote:Has any team gone from top of the table at the start of the year and ended up relegated,just asking.It will be an achievement of sorts.

Millwall in the now Championship, 1995/96.

Well, you did ask......

HindleA wrote:For frog


https://fullfact.org/economy/boris-john ... al-credit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the first things one learns in accounting/economics etc is GIGO : garbage in/garbage out, wall, here is an example of what comes out ... and I'm bloody suspicious of what assumptions went in

"" Key Findings (1)
£34 billion is total estimated economic value of Universal Credit (NPV) consisting of:
£19.3 billion from people choosing to work or work more
£8.7 billion from distribution of welfare payments
£7.5 billion from reduced fraud and error
£1.2 billion Net DEL costs
£ 8 billion – per year in steady state
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... se-summary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A system that encourages people into work/working more has to use a sliding scale of benefit reduction so that it's a no-brainer, which was the original IDS intention , subsequently tightened up and made meaner by Osborne IIRC . Any system aiming at that HAS to err on the side of 'generosity' which is the exact opposite of the way most UK politics and government works. When on unemployment -type benefit here I could work quite a lot, and didn't reach the magic figure where benefit reduced . Some long time ago, but I think I was allowed 68 hours a month.

We started off with the Johnson plucking figures out of thin air , I pray that doesn't last the full five fucking years .

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ur-leaders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... t-too-late" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Andrew Rawnsley being contrary for the sake of it. As usual.





Edited - typo

Good morfternoon.

Lisa Nandy, can you stop bigging up often ineffective and sometimes corrupt Labour councils please?

They were a significant reason for the party's December losses.

I hope everyone's ok what with the weather an' all.

Morning all.

"Windy day umpire!" as WG would say when trying to convince the official that the bails were blown off rather than as a result of being bowled.

I decided against going swimming - I didn't fancy the car being attached by flying objects...

Sinn Fein normally underperform their poll ratings in Irish elections. Already looking like that might not be the case this time.......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ong-bailey" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor wrote:I hope everyone's ok what with the weather an' all.

PorFavor & Constance patrol on board their stylish pontoon
Cocktail service provision in full operation
Hot water, honey, ginger with a splash of brandy here, please

Good afternoon, everyone.

Mixologist

PTO